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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/9153-Extra-Punctuation-Hating-Warhammer-40k-and-Space-Marine

In his "Extra Pronunciation" this week, charismatic stallion Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame talks about Space Marine(s), both the game and the concept as well as 40K in general. And doesn't have a lot of good things to say.

You agree?

Sounds about right.

Was about to read it, unfortunately I have a personal rule against reading anything on the internet written by anyone under 50 with a goatee and wearing a fedora.

plastictrees wrote:Was about to read it, unfortunately I have a personal rule against reading anything on the internet written by anyone under 50 with a goatee and wearing a fedora.

thats a solid rule to apply to the internet

plastictrees wrote:Was about to read it, unfortunately I have a personal rule against reading anything on the internet written by anyone under 50 with a goatee and wearing a fedora.

This can't be said enough.

Interesting... it seems like his entire review was a basic trolling for 40k nerds.

Ignore it and move on.

Grakmar wrote:Interesting... it seems like his entire review was a basic trolling for 40k nerds.

Ignore it and move on.

Some of his remarks were funny, but he doesn't grasp the ideas of the 40k universe. Read the comments section and there's many people pointing this out.

You are correct though. It's basically a troll review to up the hit counter on his page.

A brother has to make ad revenue any way he can!

Check out the review of Darksiders for a 40k reference too.

This dude is pretty funny but one has to put aside their nerd bias. He is obviously trolling with all of his videos.

Well I kinda like Yahtzee's reviews and I knew from the moment I heard he talked about Space Marine, that the review wouldn't be too pretty. Here's why: First of all every game that is nothing really special or just not Yahtzee's style gets ripped to shreds. Secondly, (though I have not played too much of the game) Space Marine seemed like a pretty mediocre game, which is more simple fun to play, especially for fans (which Yahtzee admits he is not) then it is actually a sophisticated game. And finally... Yahtzee rips on every game for comedic value... and this one has Space Marines (I like'em but whoever has seen more then two episodes of Zero Punctuation knows what Yahtzee thinks of anything even related to the name "Space Marine" no matter how deep the story might be).

But though I agree on the "wh40k was made by a generation that doesn't know the horrors of actual war and thus makes up stories of honour, death etc.", I feel that wh40k does it more in a satirical/critical way then most games/movies etc. that do it in moderation. In my humble opinion, the whole Imperium of mankind is built on a ton of references to how humanity has screwd up in the past and present and parodies human emotions, cultur, education, patriotism, belief, science etc. If people want to take the Wh40k background for fun over the top violence, that's cool with me, but people who get smug saying this is too childish and shallow for them (though I don't think Yahtzee actually went for that) are just plain ignorant.

If only the article had been as hilarious as his fedora.

So... he hates 40K, but in a snobbish way without any constructive reasoning.

He also makes an arsey remark about a war game designed by people who have never been to war, as though any war based computer game or film isn't equally as guilty.

I have decided not to like this fellow and not read his blog.

What an (MOD edit), we don't go making fun of his stuff so he should just shut up.

Have a sense of humour kids.

He's right about the game. It is dull. And his opinion about 40K is something we've all heard before and is quite typical of those who know very little of the universe. I've heard the "how can there be 'only' war?" line of reasoning before, and it usually comes from those who take only a cursory glance at 40K.

Furthermore it should be quite clear that his experiences with 40K only relate to the tabletop game and that he is either unaware or hasn't really looked into the various other facets of 40K. He talks about being an AD&D guy... well does he know 40K RPG's exist? Does he know 40K RPGs exist where it isn't [/i]'only war'[/i] all the time?

Probably not, but it doesn't matter. He's basing his experiences on two things:

1. His limited knowledge of the game and setting.
2. The game Space Marine.

If he's never really looked into the former (at least not with enough depth to see beyond the tabletop game) and he finds the latter dull, then who can blame him for holding the opinion he has?

What H.B.M.C. said - Yahtzee just plain doesn't "get" it, and doesn't want to take the time to "get" it. Whatever. The world will go on if he doesn't.

In any case, Yahtzee trolls everything - that's his hallmark, and that's what people enjoy about his reviews.

Yahtzee's generally making fun of stuff. it's the way he works.

I haven't watched this yet, but keep in mind that, in general, he has a strong dislike of the FPS shooter cliche of "You're a big burly sci-fi guy who runs around with a bunch of guns and shoots everything that moves" because this is kind of a cliche going back at least as far as Doom. Off the top of my head, a minor variation of this formula has been used in Doom, Unreal Tournament, TimeSplitters, Marathon, Quake, Gears of War, Aliens vs. Predator, Marathon, Crysis, Halo, and probably a ton of other games I'm not aware of.

Making a Warhammer 40,000 themed game following a Space Marine is, in this environment, kind of like the Lord of the Rings movies: A monumental challenge because it is part of the foundations of the cliches so many other movies have exploited that it needs to be immensely superior to stand out.

I stopped watching Yatzhee's stuff when my work blocked him. When I stopped, I think he liked Portal and... That was about it actually. He "likes" very few games such that being rated "Meh" by him is actually a compliment.

I also admit that it's a bit funny that so many people can't stand him making fun of Space Marines even though I thought making fun of Space Marines was a Dakka Dakka tradition.

As far as what he says about the game, sounds good to me. I'm just not sure what to make of the first paragraph on the second page (where he acts as if he knows what people who have been through combat think about and enjoy). If he is trying to be genuinely insightful and enlightened then the guy can suck my hot dog. If he is intentionally being ironic, well, okay, but he didn't do a great job of making it apparent...

Ssgt Carl wrote:As far as what he says about the game, sounds good to me. I'm just not sure what to make of the first paragraph on the second page (where he acts as if he knows what people who have been through combat think about and enjoy). If he is trying to be genuinely insightful and enlightened then the guy can suck my hot dog. If he is intentionally being ironic, well, okay, but he didn't do a great job of making it apparent...

I think you're expecting too much from pompous "comedy" internet writers.

plastictrees wrote:
I think you're expecting too much from pompous "comedy" internet writers.

Haha! You make an excellent point.

Balance wrote:I also admit that it's a bit funny that so many people can't stand him making fun of Space Marines even though I thought making fun of Space Marines was a Dakka Dakka tradition.

When we make fun of it it's fine. But when an 'other' does, it's offensive!!!

I know. Very silly.


Yahtzee rips on everything, even the things he likes. I mean, he tore into Red Dead Redemption and Just Cause 2, but at the end of that year said they were two of his five fav games for the year (I bought Just Cause 2 because of his review - best twenty bucks I ever spent). If a game is terrible he is merciless. If a game is mediocre he cuts through the hype and asks why this game wasn't better. If a game is good he gives credit where credit's due, but will point out the flaws (although even sometimes he can't do that - his Arkham Asylum review had him admitting that there was so little wrong with the game that he had resorted to nickpicking the box art...).

As I said, he dislikes Warhammer 40,000 because he doesn't understand it. He has a basic grap of 'there is a table top game and in that universe everyone fights all the time', but that's about as deep as his understanding goes. It's a very shallow point of view, but it is where he bases his opinions from so you can hardly blame him for that. He dislikes Space Marine, the game, partly because of his limited understanding of 40K and party because it's a really dull game (I may love 40K, but couldn't disagree with anything he said about Space Marine - right down the bored emotionless voice acting). No need to crucify the guy for it.

I can't say I disagree with anything he said except 'durp hurp 40k's lore sucks'.
The game was pretty boring. I walk around trying to do a finishing move to replace my 10% health on one of about a hundred surrounding Orks, or use incredibly inefficient ranged weapons to kill more Orks, or have to resort to the Thunder Hammer to even bother killing the CSM. And the tons of CSM, might I add, that have really nasty plasma weapons all over.
All the while I play a character that goes "Oh, there's enemies, FORTEHEMPRAandyeahmffmfm...'

I enjoyed the review. I find him funny, and have for years. I don't really care that he happens to not like what I like, perhaps due to his first impression with it being a bad one. Hell, I even like the game "Space Marine."

So what if Yahtzee doesn't like 40k lore? Sure, it is indeed pretty evident he doesn't actually "get it" (My God we sound like fething hipsters), and personally I would say that 40k as a setting is just as capable of holding up interesting stories and is capable of just as much depth as DnD is (As someone who plays and is familiar with both, I'd like to think I am probably right on this), and I would say a few writers like Abnett and McNeil have justified this belief, and hope to eventually play in a campaign of Dark Heresy to test my roleplaying chops in the 41st Millenium.

So yeah, some guy online doesn't like 40k or the game Space Marine, it's not a big deal. It's not like his opinion is somehow threatening to the setting or the game, if people read his review and promptly declare they don't like it simply because of his own opinion, then they probably weren't the type who would care to dig deep enough to find anything worthwhile in the setting anyway.

I don't care for his opinion about it. As long as he spouts out videos that I can chuckle at every several weeks or so, is all that matters.

He doesn't know 40k as well. can't blame him he doesn't understand though the people in the comments they aren't the brightest.

I love how a spanker who spends all his waking hours playing and talking about video games is hating on people who play 40K becaue it is kids stuff...

the only things funnier in that article are his stupid name and that picture of himself in the god-awful "slickster" outfit and the "blue steele" facial expression.

What a douche bag...

Yahtzee is a dice game. This guy is an asshat.

As someone who has been fairly entrenched at one time, 40k lore does suck. What's the issue here? It can be a metaphor, blah blah blah, but yeah, it's a bunch of dudes fighting and magically replenishing their ranks somehow. He kinda nailed it IMO.

I've been watching Zero Punctuation for... jeeze, has it been 4 years now?

Yahtzee's humor is the kind that, well, he just rips on everything. And I mean everything. He has that scathing, sarcastic wit that, so far, I've only ever seen from people who live in Australia. Which, being a soft, squishy American, is something I suppose one needs when you have to deal with a continent where virtually everything is trying to kill you on a daily basis.

After reading the article, well, I laughed. Quite a lot. This is what the 40k universe looks like to someone who's on the outside of the game.

He points out that a large factor in his enjoyment of games is a good story. Plenty of big release games mimic big movies, big budget, lotsa shiny things that explode but very little or no story. Space Marine was crap in that department, crap in general IMO.

Its just a bad article. If he ripped on 40k with tight and competent writing, I could enjoy it. Also, did anyone else find the "no one in the Somme ever (spent time) thinking about something worse" or whatever, kinda funny?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JRR_Tolkein#World_War_I

Yahtzee's fine when it comes to competant writing, and there was nothing wrong with what he wrote from a technical standpoint.

Where his article falls over is that he is attempting to critique something he has no knowledge of, or, really, something he's already made up his mind about without full grasp of the facts (NB: this is in relation to 40K, not to the Space Marine game - he has played Space Marine, so his opinion on that is separate to his overall opinion of 40K).

I'm reminded of the Nostalgia Critic's review of Last Action Hero, one of my fav Arnie films. The Critic reviews it straight, reviewing it as if Last Action Hero were attempting to be a serious action film (rather than the obvious big-action self-referencing parody that it is). His review fell over because he didn't get the purpose of the thing he was reviewing and because he made a decision that it just another Arnie film.

Yahtzee has done the same thing with his 40K comments. He has displayed only the most truly basic grasp on what 40K is really about, and has filtered what little he knows through the lense of the mediocre and repetitive Space Marine game.