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He was one of, if not the, first daemon prince of khorne. He was also an ancient warlord of terra.

Now, most people assume he was Ghengis Khan, but I think it was his great grandson, Timur Khan.

Know why? He built a pyramid out of 70,000 human skulls. Yeah.

That's about it.

Okay.

Though the thread was closed, there are some good opinions in here about Doombreed and his origins.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/375713.page

I hate to be a stickler, but it's correctly pronounced DOOMBREAD.

It's a reasonable guess: Attilla the Hun, Vlad Dracula and Baybars are the other sensible suggestions I've heard mooted.

I would presume that the studio's intention was that he plausibly could be pretty much any bloody-handed war-leader from humanity's history.

Amanax wrote:Though the thread was closed, there are some good opinions in here about Doombreed and his origins.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/375713.page

I disagree with most of those. Khorne was awakened in the middle-ages. It makes sense that his FIRST DP would be someone from that era.

I guess it's a good thing Doombreed isn't necessarily his first DP.

As the Chaos Gods exist outside of time and space it is entirely possable that the first daemon prince of khorne was a mortal long after khorne existed.

Hitler and Stalin are also potential candidates.

Grey Templar wrote:

Hitler and Stalin are also potential candidates.

Highly unlikely since Khorne respects warrior prowess and strength, not tactical scheming (and even then, Hitler and Stalin were very poor tacticians themselves). A champion of Khorne is a firstly a mighty warrior. This is why doombreed probably came from a traditional warrior culture. For those reasons, Ghengis and Timur (both recalled as remarkable warriors and bloodthirsty warlords) can both be Doombreed.

Grey Templar wrote:As the Chaos Gods exist outside of time and space it is entirely possable that the first daemon prince of khorne was a mortal long after khorne existed.

Hitler and Stalin are also potential candidates.

Yes, but hitler and stalin aren't warriors, and didn't built a mountain of 70,000 skulls.

Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

He rose to power in clever ways, and was a good speaker, but that's where the clever ends.


But do you REALLY think his plans were complicated and redundant enough to catch the eye of tzeentch? i find it doubtful.

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

He rose to power in clever ways, and was a good speaker, but that's where the clever ends.


But do you REALLY think his plans were complicated and redundant enough to catch the eye of tzeentch? i find it doubtful.

I think the way in which he schemed and manipulated the population of an entire country, causing the largest war Earth has yet seen warrants the attention of Tzeentch.

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

He rose to power in clever ways, and was a good speaker, but that's where the clever ends.


But do you REALLY think his plans were complicated and redundant enough to catch the eye of tzeentch? i find it doubtful.

I think the way in which he schemed and manipulated the population of an entire country, causing the largest war Earth has yet seen warrants the attention of Tzeentch.

Yes, but that country was already hungry for land and tensions were already high due to what was, at the time, the largest war the earth had seen, closing 20 years before with their defeat.

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

He rose to power in clever ways, and was a good speaker, but that's where the clever ends.


But do you REALLY think his plans were complicated and redundant enough to catch the eye of tzeentch? i find it doubtful.

I think the way in which he schemed and manipulated the population of an entire country, causing the largest war Earth has yet seen warrants the attention of Tzeentch.

Yes, but that country was already hungry for land and tensions were already high due to what was, at the time, the largest war the earth had seen, closing 20 years before with their defeat.

And Hitler manipulated the situation expertly.

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Hitler may qualify for tzeentch thought due to fact he managed to plan his way to the top of a country?

Except we don't know if Tzeentch had even emerged from dormancy at this point.

Also, Hitler was hardly subtle enough for Tzeentch. "Kill Jews" just isn't very clever.

Well that's a huge generalization of Hitler's reign in power. He schemed and manipulated for years, it wasn't just 'kill jews'. There was a whole lot more than that extremely direct statement.

He rose to power in clever ways, and was a good speaker, but that's where the clever ends.


But do you REALLY think his plans were complicated and redundant enough to catch the eye of tzeentch? i find it doubtful.

I think the way in which he schemed and manipulated the population of an entire country, causing the largest war Earth has yet seen warrants the attention of Tzeentch.

Yes, but that country was already hungry for land and tensions were already high due to what was, at the time, the largest war the earth had seen, closing 20 years before with their defeat.

And Hitler manipulated the situation expertly.

Any number of people could have led their nation to total war in that situation.

I wouldn't describe declaring war on a superpower when fighting a two front war already 'expert'...

Durza wrote:I wouldn't describe declaring war on a superpower when fighting a two front war already 'expert'...

You're equating military strategic capability with political savvy.

Hitler had a great deal of the latter, backed up by incredible charisma. He was not so great in the former.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Durza wrote:I wouldn't describe declaring war on a superpower when fighting a two front war already 'expert'...

You're equating military strategic capability with political savvy.

Hitler had a great deal of the latter, backed up by incredible charisma. He was not so great in the former.

Well Generally when Britain, France, Russia and the US are at war with you, you're a dumbass.

Pretty much all of the most powerful nations in the world against you,except china. Though the American army wasn't world-shatteringly powerful at that point.

Britain would have been a serious enough threat, considering all of it's colonies were supporting it (Canada, Australia etc.)

France has a war record of like 106 victories, 40 something losses and ~a dozen draws+they're the fifth most powerful military in the world.

The Americans have always been good at war, even before they went all hurr durr 700 billion in defense budget a year.

And Russia. Just Russia. They full-on stopped a blitzkrieg.

He was short-sighted

You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

Which Germany was largely winning until much later on. France was conquered along with much of Europe, Russia was on the back-foot, and America was remaining out of the conflict. Things went down-hill after that. Poor preparation in Russia, for the cold, and America eventually joined the fighting due to Hitler's ally provoking the country. Neither were technically Hitler's doing. He was a masterful politician, not a general.

I wolud've said Hitler's best political move was hiring Himmler. Now he was some Tzeentch material.

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

Which Germany was largely winning until much later on. France was conquered along with much of Europe, Russia was on the back-foot, and America was remaining out of the conflict. Things went down-hill after that. Poor preparation in Russia, for the cold, and America eventually joined the fighting due to Hitler's ally provoking the country. Neither were technically Hitler's doing. He was a masterful politician, not a general.

Not just the cold. (See:battle of Kursk)

The Soviets inflicted such horrific casualties on the Germans that they never recovered. The Soviets simply issued another round of drafts and was back at full strength.

France was conquered on paper only. The French resistance probably did more for the war effort than any comparable number of soldiers from any other army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:I wolud've said Hitler's best political move was hiring Himmler. Now he was some Tzeentch material.

Agreed

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

Which Germany was largely winning until much later on. France was conquered along with much of Europe, Russia was on the back-foot, and America was remaining out of the conflict. Things went down-hill after that. Poor preparation in Russia, for the cold, and America eventually joined the fighting due to Hitler's ally provoking the country. Neither were technically Hitler's doing. He was a masterful politician, not a general.

Not just the cold. (See:battle of Kursk)

The Soviets inflicted such horrific casualties on the Germans that they never recovered. The Soviets simply issued another round of drafts and was back at full strength.

France was conquered on paper only. The French resistance probably did more for the war effort than any comparable number of soldiers from any other army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:I wolud've said Hitler's best political move was hiring Himmler. Now he was some Tzeentch material.

Agreed

Trying... so hard... not to turn thread... into... a ww2 discussion. Must hold back comments....

Ssgt Carl wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

Which Germany was largely winning until much later on. France was conquered along with much of Europe, Russia was on the back-foot, and America was remaining out of the conflict. Things went down-hill after that. Poor preparation in Russia, for the cold, and America eventually joined the fighting due to Hitler's ally provoking the country. Neither were technically Hitler's doing. He was a masterful politician, not a general.

Not just the cold. (See:battle of Kursk)

The Soviets inflicted such horrific casualties on the Germans that they never recovered. The Soviets simply issued another round of drafts and was back at full strength.

France was conquered on paper only. The French resistance probably did more for the war effort than any comparable number of soldiers from any other army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:I wolud've said Hitler's best political move was hiring Himmler. Now he was some Tzeentch material.

Agreed

Trying... so hard... not to turn thread... into... a ww2 discussion. Must hold back comments....

It's already happened. You may as well join in.

Ssgt Carl wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression I'm disputing Hitler was a terrible military commander.

I am not.

Generals don't declare wars, they fight them.

He declared war.

=fail

Which Germany was largely winning until much later on. France was conquered along with much of Europe, Russia was on the back-foot, and America was remaining out of the conflict. Things went down-hill after that. Poor preparation in Russia, for the cold, and America eventually joined the fighting due to Hitler's ally provoking the country. Neither were technically Hitler's doing. He was a masterful politician, not a general.

Not just the cold. (See:battle of Kursk)

The Soviets inflicted such horrific casualties on the Germans that they never recovered. The Soviets simply issued another round of drafts and was back at full strength.

France was conquered on paper only. The French resistance probably did more for the war effort than any comparable number of soldiers from any other army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:I wolud've said Hitler's best political move was hiring Himmler. Now he was some Tzeentch material.

Agreed

Trying... so hard... not to turn thread... into... a ww2 discussion. Must hold back comments....

I'm enjoying reading this conversation. GIVE IN!

Um... yeah... Doombreed was... something?