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This came up in my game last night, and was wondering what Dakka's take on this would be. Simply put, if an Ork uses a boarding plank to attack a Tau vehicle that's been equipped with flechette dischargers, can the Ork be affected by the flechettes?

If the answer is yes and the Ork suffers a wound, can the wound still be distributed to the squad as normal? IE, if the squad's nob is the one making the boarding plank attack, can I still give his wound suffered to a normal boy?

In my game last night, we played it like the Orks could be affected by the flechettes, but I could see that going either way. The wound allocation thing didn't come up last night, but I feel it's related.

Your thoughts?

Can you attack models inside a transport? BPs allow you to use one model to assault as if he got out. Since the model did not disembark and you can't attack embarked units I believe that answers the question.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Can you attack models inside a transport? BPs allow you to use one model to assault as if he got out. Since the model did not disembark and you can't attack embarked units I believe that answers the question.

Actually, it doesn't. The firing of the flechettes is not considered an attack. To quote the Tau codex, pg 30: "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat will be wounded on a D6 roll of 4+, with saves allowed, before resolving its attacks."

The description of the boarding plank (Ork codex, pg 93) says "A boarding plank allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as if the Ork were disembarked and charging, provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12"."

So to me, the wording seems to suggest that the Ork would be wounded by the flechettes, but this seems counter-intuitive with how the boarding planks are supposed to work.

The nob runs out and gets hit by the flechettes. It is an assaulting models, so it is affected by this rule.

-cgmckenzie

Baalirock wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Can you attack models inside a transport? BPs allow you to use one model to assault as if he got out. Since the model did not disembark and you can't attack embarked units I believe that answers the question.

Actually, it doesn't. The firing of the flechettes is not considered an attack. To quote the Tau codex, pg 30: "Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat will be wounded on a D6 roll of 4+, with saves allowed, before resolving its attacks."

The description of the boarding plank (Ork codex, pg 93) says "A boarding plank allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as if the Ork were disembarked and charging, provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12"."

So to me, the wording seems to suggest that the Ork would be wounded by the flechettes, but this seems counter-intuitive with how the boarding planks are supposed to work.

I would agree that the Ork would be wounded on a 4+ and don't really see how this is counter-intuitive.

Boarding planks state they attack as if they assaulted, flechette launchers state they work when the vehicle is assaulted. The nob gets hit before he swings.

Actually, that's wrong. Assuming Baalirock's quote to be correct, he would get wounded as soon as he actually attacks. I agree that being in a vehicle doesn't protect him from flechette launchers though. He is attacking the vehicle in close combat, even if he isn't doing it the normal way.

He would be wounded as he attacks, but since Flechettes are specifically resolved before the assaulter's attacks are, it's kind of moot.

The Nob himself will take a wound on a 4+ before making his swings, but he gets his saves.

Because Flechettes specifies "Models" the wound cannot be allocated to a Boy unless it was actually a boy making the attack.

Assuming this is correct then what type of save does he get? Normal or cover? After all he is inside a vehicle.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Assuming this is correct then what type of save does he get? Normal or cover? After all he is inside a vehicle.

"exactly as if the Ork were disembarked and charging"

No, he's not. He gets his armor save.

Cover only applies to attacks that specifically allow cover.

He would only get saves that he has on his person(6+ ork armor, 4+ 'evy armor, or 5+ cybork)

Grey Templar wrote:Cover only applies to attacks that specifically allow cover.

He would only get saves that he has on his person(6+ ork armor, 4+ 'evy armor, or 5+ cybork)

... 2+ Mega armour and/or FNP where applicable

Indeed

Grey Templar wrote:Cover only applies to attacks that specifically allow cover.

He would only get saves that he has on his person(6+ ork armor, 4+ 'evy armor, or 5+ cybork)

Incorrect. It has t specifically disallow cover for you to not be able to take a cover save. Given the "firing model" has no LOS to the ork, some cover would be appropriate.

Except it does have LOS - since the boarding plank says that he counts as being disembarked.

Draw a LOS from the model to the Boarding Plank model. Try it. This is TRUE line of sight.

No, there IS no line of sight. Same as you dont get to attack back as a walker - there is no enemy model in base to base.

Doesn't seem like Fletchette Launchers are shooting attacks per se. In any event, its clearly a reaction to an assault, there are no cover saves in an assault.

Except from an exploding vehicle, to put the lie to that blanket statement.

You do not get a cover save from Close Combat Attacks. Extending this to ANYTHING that happens in close combat has absolutely no support in the rules.

Indeed. As much as I'd like to benefit from a Mek's KFF save in combat, no dice.

It's a shame that the rules read this way, as it seems like the point of a boarding plank is to be able to hit a vehicle without leaving it, and thus not lose the added protection a vehicle provides. This is why I said I thought that the wording of flechettes was somewhat counter-intuitive to this. Alas. At least I'm only putting a single model at risk instead of the whole squad...

Thank you all for your discourse on this!

nosferatu1001 wrote:Draw a LOS from the model to the Boarding Plank model. Try it. This is TRUE line of sight.

Since the boarding plank is (should be?) modeled, put the Nob out on it and I bet I can draw TLOS. By definition, the model is disembarked and must be in B2B (or B2Hull) of the assaulted vehicle.
Try avoiding LOS under those conditions.

No, there IS no line of sight. Same as you dont get to attack back as a walker - there is no enemy model in base to base.

Actually, you don't get to attack back as a walker because the plank doesn't allow you to. The plank does say that a single model can make all of his attacks "exactly as if the Ork were disembarked and charging". The plank doesn't allow an entire round of combat (although I don't have the ork book nearby I'm pretty sure this happens in the movement phase, please correct me if I'm wrong) and you can't have multiple rounds and be stuck in combat outside the assault phase.

rigeld2 wrote: Actually, you don't get to attack back as a walker because the plank doesn't allow you to.

The Ork FAQ would disagree with you. In fact the walker does not even get to swing back if the Nob (or whomever) fails to kill it.

Q: Can a Walker attack back against an Ork attacking
him from a boarding plank? (p93)
A: No.

Which ... is what I said?

You only get cover from shooting attacks. This attack occurs in the assault phase, thus it is not a shooting attacks.

This is not what I would expected people to be arguing about.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:You only get cover from shooting attacks. This attack occurs in the assault phase, thus it is not a shooting attacks.

This is not what I would expected people to be arguing about.

False. There is nothing restricting cover to only shooting attacks - in fact, you get cover saves against thinks like the Mawloc "Terror From the Deep" ability, which happens during the movement phase.

You explicitly do not get cover from close combat attacks.

rigeld2 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:You only get cover from shooting attacks. This attack occurs in the assault phase, thus it is not a shooting attacks.

This is not what I would expected people to be arguing about.

False. There is nothing restricting cover to only shooting attacks - in fact, you get cover saves against thinks like the Mawloc "Terror From the Deep" ability, which happens during the movement phase.

You explicitly do not get cover from close combat attacks.

Ok.......fine. Way to nitpick. More to the point, if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack (and no, there really is no more precise definition than that), so you don't get cover.

And getting cover from the mawlocs attack is just stupid, anyway.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:Ok.......fine. Way to nitpick. More to the point, if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack (and no, there really is no more precise definition than that), so you don't get cover.

As I said earlier I don't have my Ork codex - does the boarding plank happen during the assault phase?

And getting cover from the mawlocs attack is just stupid, anyway.

Agreed but dem's da rulez.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:More to the point, if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack (and no, there really is no more precise definition than that), so you don't get cover.

So, if I assault your vehicle and cause it to explode. Your nearby models that get hit by the explosion are getting hit by a close combat attack and don't get cover?

Sir_Prometheus wrote:if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack

Still not true. Dangerous terrain, vehicle explosions, Perils, etc. are all examples to prove that wrong.

iirc there are close combat attacks that do NOT occur in the assault phase.

Grakmar wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:More to the point, if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack (and no, there really is no more precise definition than that), so you don't get cover.

So, if I assault your vehicle and cause it to explode. Your nearby models that get hit by the explosion are getting hit by a close combat attack and don't get cover?

I don't think you do get cover from a vehicle explosion, in fact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kirsanth wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:if it occurs in the assault phase, it's a close combat attack

Still not true. Dangerous terrain, vehicle explosions, Perils, etc. are all examples to prove that wrong.

iirc there are close combat attacks that do NOT occur in the assault phase.

None of the those things do you get cover saves from, so I'm not sure what you're arguing about. Just the same, anything that happens in the intiaive order (i.e., at initiative 2, when the ork swings) definately, absolutely, is a CC attack.

I feel like you are committed to arguing about not very much.