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Okay so I just played my first game against my friends Brets, and a few questions that we didn't know/couldn't find the answer to came up. I'll guess I'll just list and number them.

1a) If I take a level 2 wizard, lets say lore of fire. Do i get the signature spell and roll 1 dice for another spell? (or two dice for a total of 3 spells?) we did the former.
1b) If I choose dark, and say I roll 6,6,6 for example for my 3 spells (lvl 2 + tome). Do I only get the Black horror spell (and I can swap one of those rolls of 6 for chillwind, OR do I only get black horror, and have to swap it for chillwind). Because if I am not mistaken it says I cannot re-roll duplicates like for other lores.

2) Can I only use my power of darkness power dice only after I've finished my regular power pool? Or can I use it whenever I feel?

3) Black Horror. I cast and it hit his trebuchet. Does his each of his 4 crew take a strength test and we figure out wounds that way? or does it target the trebuchet profile and because it has no strength it instantly fails? if the latter, does the trebuchet only take 1 wound out of it's 4?
3b)What if the template only covers lets say 2 crew members and none of the actual trebuchet? What happens if the template also covers a unit in close combat? does it just hit those handful of units as normal?

4) what happens when a unit is already in combat, and then it is charged by a unit with terror (hydra). does it have to panic and flee from combat? (We said no). but it does have to test for fear and get WS1 if failed right?
4b) What if he already passed the fear test against the cold ones (that round), does he have to test against the Hydra too?

5) How many attacks do the beastmasters get (2 each or 3 each)?

6a) What happens when his trebuchet hits my hydra directly. (it's strength six and causes d6 wounds). Does he roll 6 dice to attempt to wound. or only the one dice, and if he rolls a wound (2+), then rolls a d6 to see how many wounds it dealt?)
6b) What happens if the template only hits the beastmasters and not the hydra?

7) I am confused in regards to which direction a flee'ing unit goes if it is flanked. eg. His knights are face to face with my cold ones. My hydra flanks the knights. My cold ones dealt no wounds, and my hydra killed 5 knights. he lost, and fled. now which way does he flee? directly backward (away from the cold ones?) or directly from the unit that dealt the most wounds (hydra). Who gets to/has to pursue?

8) how does that Bret "ruby goblet" work?. Either I am misreading it or it seems completely broken.

That's all I can think of for now. Thanks for your patience with my nooby questions. Much appreciated.

1a) you get 2 dice on the fire spells, and may sub one of them for the signature.
1b) you get 6 + any two spells of your choice, and the ability to swap any one spell for the "1" spell, and as you pick the order you could pick 2 spells then swap the 6 for 1 thus ending up with no 6 spell at all.

2) whenever you want to, only by the person that cast the power of darkness spell

3a) it is a single model per the war machines rule crew are markers.
3b) crew members dont matter see 3a. you can not intentionally target a template in combat (unless allowed to explicitly), but if you scatter the the models under the tempalte are hit as normal.

4) terror is ignored by units already engaged
4b) i'll have to double check but i believe you only have to test once per round for fear

5) 2+1, the scourge grants the additional attack rule.
6b) see the monsters and handlers rule

7) per fleeing rules he flees away from the unit with the most ranks. anyone can pursue your choice, see the rules for restraining persuit.

8) exactly like it says, at the end of the phase that they take a wound, they cant be wounded on less than a 3+. eg if your S10 you still need a 3+ to wound instead of a 2+ UNLESS its magic source.

Looks like lixulana covered most of that. Here's a smidge more:

3a) If a war machine is forced to take a characteristic test (which it auto-fails), it is completely removed.
3b & 6b) Neither crew member models nor monster handler models play any role in targeting or line of sight, but rather serve as counters for wounds or number of handlers remaining.

7) If the cold ones have at least one rank (i.e. 5 models in a row), then the knights flee from them. If they have 4 or fewer models left, then I believe you dice off which way they flee: 1-3 away from cold ones, 4-6 away from hydra (or vice versa).

8) Yet another piece of Bret kit I've not heard of

- Salvage

Thanks for the prompt responses. Appreciated. But the ruby ring still confuses me.

lixulana wrote:
8) exactly like it says, at the end of the phase that they take a wound, they cant be wounded on less than a 3+. eg if your S10 you still need a 3+ to wound instead of a 2+ UNLESS its magic source.

it doesn't say can't be wounded on less than 3+. from my understanding it's the opposite

It says "cannot be wounded on better than a 3+ from any non magical source"

So. Does that mean any rolls of 3, 4, 5, and 6 instantly fail to wound?

Does that mean 1s and 2s are automatic successes? say this was active on a T3 unit and I hit with S3. I would normally need 4+ to wound. Does this mean I cannot wound at all unless it is a magical attack? or do my 1s and 2s count as successes now?

FWIW, 2+ to wound (2,3,4,5,6) is 'better' than 3+ to wound (3,4,5,6), and I think the intent of the item is to make your wounded character a bit more resilient against further high strength attaks. IIRC the dark elf pendent of khaeleth is one of the only items that inverts dice order (i.e. 1 = bad, 6 = good becomes the opposite).

- Salvage

aaaaaaaaaaah I get ya. so basically high strength non magic stuff that would usually wound on a 2+ now needs a minimum of 3+. That makes a lot more sense. I knew I was misinterpreting it otherwise it seemed too awesome an item at 30pts.


Also, just a quick question. all things in fantasy that scatter (stone throwers, some spells etc). the ballistic skill is not deducted from the 2D6 scatter like 40k is it? the rulebook indicates NO. But then why is it the Bret rulebook you can upgrade one of the crew members to be an engineer and have 1 higher ballistic skill if it is irrelevant. (or is it an old book and those were old scatter rules and it is irrelevant)

Marlo wrote:Also, just a quick question. all things in fantasy that scatter (stone throwers, some spells etc). the ballistic skill is not deducted from the 2D6 scatter like 40k is it? the rulebook indicates NO. But then why is it the Bret rulebook you can upgrade one of the crew members to be an engineer and have 1 higher ballistic skill if it is irrelevant. (or is it an old book and those were old scatter rules and it is irrelevant

If firing a Stone Thrower indirectly (BRB pg. 115), i.e. you don't have LoS to where you are placing the hole of the template, and you roll a "hit" the shot still scatters, but you get to subtract the crew's BS from the scatter.

The higher ballistic skill is for when you fire at a target out of line of sight, (which stone throwers can do), if you get a hit, you scatter in the direction of the little arrow on the hit symbol, (It is there), artillery dice minus the highest ballistic skill.
Fantasy scatter the artillery dice, not 2d6.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Verd_Warr

More questions (thanks guys!)

How many 'hit' faces are on the scatter die? (our scatter die haven't come in yet, 6 week back-order, so we want to just draw on a normal die in the meantime)

Does the Birth Sword of Carcassonne's +1 strength stack with the +2 for charging with a lance?

+2 on a charge is for lances.

Birth SWORD of Carcassonnes is not a lance.

Marlo wrote:+2 on a charge is for lances.

Birth SWORD of Carcassonnes is not a lance.

This is right in the wrong way.
The Birth Sword is a magical weapon with no specified type, therefore it's a magical hand weapon.
Only lances get +2S on charge, and by the BRB rules you are required to use your magical weapon allways (unless you're a brett).

okay, so the +1 strength from the magic weapon will not stack from the +2 from the lance. because he is not using the lance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what happens in terms of pursuing if lets say a unit breaks but I have the front and the rear of the enemy also tied in combat? Does this mean they cannot flee and are instantly over-run? or do they flee in a random side direction?

Also how much can you "wheel" when you declare a charge? Is it done just the same as marching?

Can the profile "Armour piercing" stack?
eg, I have Whip of Agony = hits on strength 5 (-2 to armour) and armour piercing (-1) = -3 in total. If this is also in a unit carrying a banner that says "The unit has Armour Piercing". Does the champion with the magic weapon get a further armour piercing bonus of -1. thus increasing the total to -4?

Does he have to pass a test to declare a charge against my Hydra because of terror? (i know he has to when I charge, but does he have to before he can charge me?) does his BSB allow him to re-roll against fear and terror too?

I had more questions but forgot


Automatically Appended Next Post:
his knights use shields right? do they get a parry save? does this stack with their blessing?

Fleeing from multiple units works the same as the hydra / cold one example above: IF the unit isn't caught by pursuers (one or both of the engaged units can roll to chase), then it moves away from the most ranks. Yes, this might mean that pursuing units get in each other's way or move less than they rolled. Just make sure they head after the fleer and keep 1" away from it and each other.

Chargers get a free wheel before contact, up to 90 degrees. Once you touch the enemy unit with yours (like with a corner), then you get another wheel to align in against them. Check the charging section for more details, like 'closing the door' when the charger doesn't have room to align but the chargee does.

The special rule 'armor piercing' does not stack. If something grants AP, it doesn't get another -1 for being granted AP from another source.

Terror is only a test (or auto-flee) when charged by a terror causer; when you charge a terror causer, nothing special happens. In combat, you'll be taking fear tests as usual. Yes, the BSB allows rerolls for terror / fear (and ALL LD tests).

Mounted models do not get to parry (unless they're ogre mournfangs ). Blessed models that can parry (like knights on foot or pilgrims) can't stack that with the blessing.

- Salvage

Alright thanks.

Just to recap. As people have had conflicting views.

If Black horror hits the Trebuchet. It auto fails the strength test. does it take just one wound or the whole thing is dead?
The spell says "all models touched by the template must pass a strength test or suffer a wound, no armour saves allowed."

I understand this as it takes 1 wound, regardless of how many of the crew are covered by the template. (but others said the whole thing is dead)

Where as Pit of Shades is a similar spell, but "models must pass an Initiatiive test or be dragged to their DOOM!(remove them as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed)."

I understand the latter as the whole treb is gone.

Oh, my bad on that one. Forgot that Black Horror was just 1 wound (most DE I play don't use Dark Magic ). I'd say that the treb auto-fails the S test but indeed only loses 1 wound (so 1 crewman model goes away). Pit of Shades is a whole 'nother thing (and usually what DE are tossing around when it comes to magical templates ).

- Salvage

Yeah can't wait to roll up pit of shades, hasn't happened yet.

Dark magic is severely under-rated imo.
I rolled up 3 spells on my lvl 2. (with tome) at a total of 150 points. one of which happened to be black horror.

Black Horror = 18 inch range (24 with familiar), large template. NO SCATTER. required to take strength test. one wound = panic test. oh, and difficulty = 11+

also what is the casting arc of a sorceress in regards to targeting spells?

does it become a 360 if I use a familiar?

Can I cast the shadow lore beam spell (pendulum or whatever) into units in combat? (eg if the beam runs through multiple units, and some of which may or may not be in combat. also how wide is the imaginary line?

I have always played that the line is an atom wide, meaning it cannot hit two models that are adjacent and directly in front of the caster. The beam goes in the nominated direction, the distance you rolled, hitting every model it touches. Technically it is cast across combat and hits every model in the way. Remember, this includes your own models too.
You can place the familiar anywhere, but I guess you place it as if it were a character, because the user is a character. You can still place it looking in any direction tho.

Mario - fleeing is as before, it doesnt matter how many sides you are engaged on. Its just a straight dice off, essentially

Armour Piercing cannot stack - see the Errata to the rulebook, which changes the default rule to "not stack" and provides specific exemptions to rules which DO stack. You MUST read the FAQs, there are many many changes!

Parry is NOT a "+1" ward save, it is a 6+ ward save entirely separate to all other ward saves. There is no "stacking" possible here - you need a Mark of Tzeentch to let you improve ward saves

So can you take an armour save, and then a parry save, AND THEN a further ward save (if the character has one)?

or do you just skip the parry altogether?



Also, I read that you can cause wounds on a 1+ in this scenario, is it accurate, apparently an FAQ somewhere (haven't found it) says it is:


I use withering spell to reduce his toughness to 1.
so my crossbow shots at str 3 wound on a 2+.

BUT if I also cast Sword of Rhuin, i get a 1+ bonus to all wound rolls.

This means I wound even if I roll ones?





If I have a hero mounted on a Cold One in a unit of cold ones, and say they are together as one unit in combat against an enemy. if that enemy flees, can I choose to break the the hero away from the cold one unit and pursue with just the cold ones or visa versa?

Marlo wrote:So can you take an armour save, and then a parry save, AND THEN a further ward save (if the character has one)?

You can take an armour and you'r best ward/regen, parry is a ward and is usually not the best a character has.

Marlo wrote:Also, I read that you can cause wounds on a 1+ in this scenario, is it accurate, apparently an FAQ somewhere (haven't found it) says it is:

I use withering spell to reduce his toughness to 1.
so my crossbow shots at str 3 wound on a 2+.

BUT if I also cast Sword of Rhuin, i get a 1+ bonus to all wound rolls.

This means I wound even if I roll ones?

Yup its in the BRB FAQ.

Marlo wrote:If I have a hero mounted on a Cold One in a unit of cold ones, and say they are together as one unit in combat against an enemy. if that enemy flees, can I choose to break the the hero away from the cold one unit and pursue with just the cold ones or visa versa?

You can only split off in the movement phase.

Hand weapons and shields give a Parry which is a 6+ ward save. Very few races can improve ward saves. Mark of Tzeentch is the only one I'm aware of.

If you have a 4+ ward save and Hand/shield for a 6+ ward. They do not stack. You can take one Armor save, 1 ward save (best one available) or 1 regen save if app.
so a Bret knight on 2nd round of combat gets wounded with a str 5 weapon. Gets 4+ Armor save and a 5+ Ward save from the blessing of the lady. He doesnt get the parry save because blessing is better.

On wounds, Yes, if you wound on 2+ and also have the Sword of Rhuin up, you get +1 to your roll, so its possible to auto wound on a 1+.

On Armor save, 1's always fail even tho you have a 1+ armor save.



** edit ** Corrected the mistype of the ward or regen save.

Artee wrote:You can take one Armor save, 1 ward save (best one available), and 1 regen save if app.

No, its ward or regen.

HoverBoy wrote:

Artee wrote:You can take one Armor save, 1 ward save (best one available), and 1 regen save if app.

No, its ward or regen.

Opps, corrected it. Thats what I get for posting as soon as I wake up.

Hey noone's perfect

I am.

Looks like everyone's got this pretty well wrapped up, but I did want to mention one thing. In regards to:

Boss Salvage wrote:
3a) If a war machine is forced to take a characteristic test (which it auto-fails), it is completely removed.

A war machine does indeed auto-fail all characteristic tests other than toughness and leadership (p 108). But there isn't an auto-removed clause. It often seems that way, because the most common characteristic tests machines are called upon to take are from Pit or Dwellers. But by the book, you simply suffer whatever the penalty for failing that test is. For example, with Net of Amnytok, you fail your action and take hits. With the Black Horror example given, you merely take a single wound, per the spell description.

^^ Yeah that's what I thought.

With his men at arms I have a questions, they have hand weapons, shields, and "polarms" (count as halberds)

That means they hit at +1 str right?
But do they have to be used 2 handed like a halberd? because his men at arms can come with shields two. Does he gets the +1 strength whilst getting the benefits of a shield too [that's how we did it last game] or does he have to choose to use hand weapon and shield or the polearm two handed with no shield? what about when he rolls for armour saves against missile attacks. is he using his shields?

can fliers do a 20" flying march into combat? or must they do a flying charge (2D6 + 10) ?

does a flying march have to test for that marching past enemies within 6" rule?

eg: I have some harpies on the field, and lets say 5 inches away is a unit of men at arms, and 15 inches behind them is standalone character I want to attack. What course of action do I need to take to engage said character?

In combat the shields are ignored, and he must use the polearms. But against shooting or magic the shield is used
Flyers must flying charge.
To engage the character, you make a flying charge, and since your flying, you can pass over the intervening unit. And if you fail the charge, you can redirect into the men at arms.
A flying march is still a march so you do have to test, I believe

Flying march is a march like any other, so test for leadership

Nothing about unit type "flyer" changes the rules for charging

A halberd REQUIRES two hands, not one, so no using the shield in CC. Also, because the halberd is a special weapon you MUST use it - you can NEVER choose to use the HW in close combat.

So just to clarify how many direct hits are there on the scatter die? Is it just the one?


What happens if I make the unkillable dreadlord on pegasus, and charge him into a unit of something ALONE, and my opponent challenges me with something that I don't want to fight in a challenge.

That means I don't get to participate in combat right? does that mean nobody from his unit can attack me and they are still tied up in combat? And then at the start of his next turn, he tries to challenge and I refuse, does the same thing happen again? eg If my enemy had a huge deathstar unit, but with a hero that can kill me in a challenge, and I want another turn to do things with the rest of my army, can I just go right up to them and continuously decline challenges.

I figure though after the first decline he will not declare a challenge and just try to fight me as normal. at that point I will take my chances. But he has done his job tying up such a key unit of his for a few turns and maybe kill a bunch of models too.

Any advice in general in regards to the unkillable dreadlord? is it not a good idea to use him in friendly games? My friend is taking a lord with 7 heroic killing blow attacks made just for my hydra =[ so he ain't being too friendly either.