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Is there any possibility for say Calgar to update it.
10.000 years is a LONG time, they have new enemies and they have became very predictable in fighting.
Surely an update would be nice, is this possible at all or is it so sacred that it can't be modified?

Some things are eternally true. Ever read anything older than 30 years old?

No. It's a general catch all for combat tactics.
They write other books to explain new tactics that are race specific, or at least I think.

But if Calgar wanted too I'm sure he could being chapter master and having authority over his entire chapter.

Does Iliad count?

The mindset of the commander needs an update, not the Codex Astartes.

So they compensate Codex Astartes by writing expansion books?

Update?
This would instakill sicarius...

Gulliman wrote it as a collection, not a book of laws. Those who take it too literally would reject the update maybe?

In "age of darkness", when the codex is completed , after Calth, so right in the heresy era, Gulliman doesn't say his ultramarines should follow it to the letter but interpret it and adapt to new threats. Basically a BL story disagrees with the holiness of the codex and has a strong case as its the author of the codex astartes himself who says so.

It's not a set of laws that dictate what an Astartes has to do in a combat situation. It's there to give pointers, like a giant 40k military wikihow that tells them what that could do. Besides, it's not just Guilliman who wrote it, it's a collection like 1hadhq has said. Many other commanders and generals provided insight for it, and I'm betting more stuff is added to each Chapter's own version.
Actually, a lot of people could make a convincing argument for how the Ultramarines aren't truly using it as they should, how they aren't really honoring its true purpose fully. It's a set of guidelines, not rules. By using it as rules they aren't staying true to what its for.

He would, but he has lots of other codex's to revise first!

It's that old... So it dosen't have any information about the tau, the necrons, the nids? Granted SM equipment hasn't changed much, but this means that the IG's primer is more up to date.

The Codex Astartes is much like Sun Tzu's Art of War.
The Art of War's teachings are still valid aout 50000 years later.

Im sure he could make it even more fanboy pleasing and make the ultramarines seem even more perfect, bleesh.... But then again maybe that would cause one of the more awesome chapters like the Salamanders, Space wolves or the Imperial fists to stand up to the codex again. And do we really want an internal war involving the space wolves on the wrong side of the conflict? I think not.

I do, then they would probably be destroyed considering you could fool the whole Chapter into running out of the air-lock by putting up a sign that said "This way for Russ".

Brother Coa wrote:Is there any possibility for say Calgar to update it.
10.000 years is a LONG time, they have new enemies and they have became very predictable in fighting.
Surely an update would be nice, is this possible at all or is it so sacred that it can't be modified?

Codex: Space Marines, Page 9, paragraph one wrote:
These guidelines have been much modified over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the 41st Millenium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundred of military thinkers throughout history.

It has been updated since Guilliman first penned it.
The idea some people (and BL Authors) have that the Codex Astartes is some kind of Space Marine playbook is ridiculous.

Yeah, it's more like a Space Marine Bible of War. Some are much more ardent about following it literally than others. It's not like capturing one would mean you've got the ability to call their moves. You'd just get a great insight into their whole mindset

Ironsight wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Is there any possibility for say Calgar to update it.
10.000 years is a LONG time, they have new enemies and they have became very predictable in fighting.
Surely an update would be nice, is this possible at all or is it so sacred that it can't be modified?

Codex: Space Marines, Page 9, paragraph one wrote:
These guidelines have been much modified over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the 41st Millenium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundred of military thinkers throughout history.

It has been updated since Guilliman first penned it.
The idea some people (and BL Authors) have that the Codex Astartes is some kind of Space Marine playbook is ridiculous.

Thank you brother

Thanks for the quote Ironsight. Nice to see someone scoring a point for sense and reason on the forums.

Ironsight wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Is there any possibility for say Calgar to update it.
10.000 years is a LONG time, they have new enemies and they have became very predictable in fighting.
Surely an update would be nice, is this possible at all or is it so sacred that it can't be modified?

Codex: Space Marines, Page 9, paragraph one wrote:
These guidelines have been much modified over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the 41st Millenium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundred of military thinkers throughout history.

It has been updated since Guilliman first penned it.
The idea some people (and BL Authors) have that the Codex Astartes is some kind of Space Marine playbook is ridiculous.

Yep this is very true, we don't know how many amendments but at least one of them has been how to deal with Tyranids, such as Tyranid War Veterans, the last Codex went into detail about the deliberations it took to allow their continued specialisation.

There is also the fact that the Codex Astartes is very much focused towards military flexibility, just because some races hadn't been met before its original draft doesn't mean that the information won't help.

Ironsight wrote:

Codex: Space Marines, Page 9, paragraph one wrote:
These guidelines have been much modified over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the 41st Millenium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundred of military thinkers throughout history.

It has been updated since Guilliman first penned it.

Dammit, beat me to it.

Isn't the Codex some umpteen thousand pages long though? That much material would indicate that it's more 'detailed instructions' than 'flexible guidelines'.

daveNYC wrote:Isn't the Codex some umpteen thousand pages long though? That much material would indicate that it's more 'detailed instructions' than 'flexible guidelines'.

The Bible is over a thousand pages long, and only a small portion of it is explicit instructions.

For all we know, the bulk of the Codex is vague parables and cryptic allegories involving birds and farmers.

When you're relating the application of tactics and the results of battles over a 10,000+ year span for a society that is never not at war...

... yeah, you're going to have a lot of battle reports to collate into the mix.

Likely the Codex Astartes is printed as a coloring book venue, so each chapter can color its marine diagrams figures to suit them, and color the nasty enemies in suitably evil heretical colors....this would save alot on printing costs, and give the battle brothers something creative to do during their 15 min of free time each day.

Of course only sanctioned and chapter approved crayolas could be used.

People seem to think the Codex rolls along the lines of, "When encountering Traitor Marines on the second floor of the Woolworth's department store on Calth, you should send Scott to flank them with a flamer. When encountering Traitor Marines on the third floor of the Woolworth's department store on Calth, you should have Bill mimic a duck while Steve maps the layout."

It's not. It's much more, "When encountering entrenched infantry, here are some general guidelines."

It's unlikely to be nearly as specific as people think.

Soo'Vah'Cha I loved your post - had me laughing for quite a while. Thanks for that

For a view on living with the Codex check out this Space Marine Spoiler from Captain Titus of the Ultramarines.



This one is fun as well!



"Shut up Leandros you weasel."

Seaward wrote:People seem to think the Codex rolls along the lines of, "When encountering Traitor Marines on the second floor of the Woolworth's department store on Calth, you should send Scott to flank them with a flamer. When encountering Traitor Marines on the third floor of the Woolworth's department store on Calth, you should have Bill mimic a duck while Steve maps the layout."

It's not. It's much more, "When encountering entrenched infantry, here are some general guidelines."

It's unlikely to be nearly as specific as people think.

Dude...
Woolworths shut down last year.
I don't think they will be around 38,000 years in the future without some very creative business management skills...

The Codex is largely about control. Its a result of the horrific consequences of the Heresy and one fo the things that accelerated the Imperium into its defensively minded, reactive mindset (as opposed to the proactive, offensively-minded Great Crusade mindset.) That's probably why the Ultramarine gene-seed is so favored by the Adeptus Terra - they know the Ultramarines and their descendants are the ones who will take the most strict interpretation of it and thus stick to its dictates. Which suits the bureacrats just fine. Remember it's the more independently minded (and generally interesting) Legions that cause the problems (whether it's objecting to converting a planet's population into forced labor because they saw Angron, or if it's because they get annoyed watching a Commissar blow apart an innocent recruit's head.)

anyhow, I doubt it would be updated since Guiilliman's dead, and it's the whole "written by Guilliman so you know its perfect" vibe that gives it the force of law to begin with. But if for the sake of argument they did update it, I imagine what they would be sticking in are further restrictions.

Okay clearly ignoring prior posts

Its a living document

We even know Calgar has penned entries himself

Parts of it clearly are open to interpretation or modification. The stuff pertaining to how you fight is clearly open ended, as is the rituals and traditions permitted to each Chapter, because even amongst the Ultramarines-descended chapters you get quite a bit of variation (Silvers skulls and Mortifactors for traditions, Iron Snakes and Aurora Chapter for tactics and fighting style.)

But the core, key elements, - organizaton, doctrine, structure, and equipment are all pretty much set in stone it would seem. Strict limits on size of the force, the kinds of assets you have, how they operate to get to battle (and sustain themselves), etc. They are what functionally distinguish Great Crusade era Astartes from the Post HEresy marines.