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Has GW ever tried making army specific starter sets? I think it would make the hobby more accessable if there were something like this. I wanted to play Marines, so I liked the Black Reach set. Or for Fantasy, you would want Island of Blood if you wanted High Elves/ goblins. I think this would be better for someone who wanted to play 40k/Fantasy because of a specific army, instead of buying the regular 2-player kit.
They could have the bare minimum needed- for 40k, 2 troops of an army and a generic HQ, with the codex and mini-rulebook. If they had the minimum, GW could price them at 90-100$ so someone could get into the hobby right off.

battleforces ?


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they are generally two troop units and a vehicle in a box

I think it would be a great idea if they put an HQ , 2 troops and a wee rulebook (like the one in AoBR) all in one box for each of the armies. It would make starting out much easier

Castiel wrote:I think it would be a great idea if they put an HQ , 2 troops and a wee rulebook (like the one in AoBR) all in one box for each of the armies. It would make starting out much easier

So, like Privateer Press?

I'm in complete agreement. The battleforces are a great way to start for most armies. However, very few (if any) contain a HQ choice, and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

I'd love for GW to fix the battleforces to make them a better starting place for a new army.

And, containing a mini-codex is a great idea. It would run into the problem of the page numbers not matching up (since fluff happens at the beginning of the codex), but that wouldn't be terrible.

Grakmar wrote:

And, containing a mini-codex is a great idea. It would run into the problem of the page numbers not matching up (since fluff happens at the beginning of the codex), but that wouldn't be terrible.

It's not, as long as there's an index. See WM Prime vs the mini-version.

Platuan4th wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

And, containing a mini-codex is a great idea. It would run into the problem of the page numbers not matching up (since fluff happens at the beginning of the codex), but that wouldn't be terrible.

It's not, as long as there's an index. See WM Prime vs the mini-version.

You would run into confusion when people mention page numbers across the various products. But, that's the only real issue.

on the topic of PP I like the stat cards they have, if GW made something like that and put them in battle forces it would be awesome

GW used to sell starter armies. I bought the Dark Eldar army box when it came out. Contained a Lord, 5 Incubi, squad of 10 Wyches, 20 Warriors, 5 Warpbeast and a Beastmaster, Raider, Ravager and a Talos. All in all it was a great deal for the price I paid.

I don't know if anyone remembers them, but I believe up until Codex: Eldar (there might have been one more after) GW used to do the equivalent of the Megaforce with each release. It had the new codex, and about 1000 points worth of army, plus a mini exclusive to that box. They also did these when the Armageddon3 codex released (I bought both the Black Templar and Salamanders) and as a splash release around the start of 3rd edition (still kicking myself for missing out on the Iyanden army deal).

They were a decent price for what you got. Now you'd end up just paying retail, or possibly more as a convenience charge for them packing it all together.

Grakmar wrote:I'm in complete agreement. The battleforces are a great way to start for most armies. However, very few (if any) contain a HQ choice, and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

I'd love for GW to fix the battleforces to make them a better starting place for a new army.

And, containing a mini-codex is a great idea. It would run into the problem of the page numbers not matching up (since fluff happens at the beginning of the codex), but that wouldn't be terrible.

A battleforce to me is more a big "booster pack" so to speak- say, you need 500-600 points more for a tournament, not any units in particular, so you get a battle force as a nice mix of units to top off the list.


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Grakmar wrote:I'm in complete agreement. The battleforces are a great way to start for most armies. However, very few (if any) contain a HQ choice, and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

I'd love for GW to fix the battleforces to make them a better starting place for a new army.

And, containing a mini-codex is a great idea. It would run into the problem of the page numbers not matching up (since fluff happens at the beginning of the codex), but that wouldn't be terrible.

I figure if they put the minimum number of minis in each box, they could put the full-sized book in there.

Even better, if they tailor each battle force to fit a certain amount of points.

Prices would vary much more between battleforces, but I think having something like a set 500 pts per battleforce would be nice.

Maybe make all battlefoces snap-fit style like AoBR, and contain at least 2 Troops and HQ choice.

Or even... just make a "starter force..."

In wouldn’t call the GW battleforces or Assault on Black Reach true starter kits.

The flaw of the battleforces is that they aren’t balanced against each other and vary too much amongst points. The collection of miniatures in the box is usually inadequate to play a proper game anway (missing HQs and tactical punch). As DoctorZombie has already said, the battleforces are more of an army booster pack than a proper starter kit.

The flaw of the two player kits like assault on black reach is that a) the forces are not equal in terms of points and power and b) the kits are too large scale in terms of miniatures and price.

Ideally, GW would need to create PP style starter kits with perhaps a HQ and two min sized troop choices per box (300-500pts). In order for this to work, each starter kit would need to be balanced against its counterparts and be priced around $50-75. Quick start rules could be included with each kit in the form of a leaflet (just like PP).

derek wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers them, but I believe up until Codex: Eldar (there might have been one more after) GW used to do the equivalent of the Megaforce with each release.
They were a decent price for what you got. Now you'd end up just paying retail, or possibly more as a convenience charge for them packing it all together.

Are you aware that this Christmas (like every Christmas) they are releasing 4 megaforces? Skaven, High Elves, Marines and Dark Eldar will all be released and cost 109£ from Wayland Games saving you around 40£ on top of Waylands normal 20% off (I'm gonna get the Skaven one )

Cheers

My idea of a starter kit would be a set with the mini-rulebook, glue, dice, tape measure and templates. Buy that and a battleforce and you're good to go.

candy.man wrote:In wouldn’t call the GW battleforces or Assault on Black Reach true starter kits.

The flaw of the battleforces is that they aren’t balanced against each other and vary too much amongst points. The collection of miniatures in the box is usually inadequate to play a proper game anway (missing HQs and tactical punch). As DoctorZombie has already said, the battleforces are more of an army booster pack than a proper starter kit.

The flaw of the two player kits like assault on black reach is that a) the forces are not equal in terms of points and power and b) the kits are too large scale in terms of miniatures and price.

Ideally, GW would need to create PP style starter kits with perhaps a HQ and two min sized troop choices per box (300-500pts). In order for this to work, each starter kit would need to be balanced against its counterparts and be priced around $50-75. Quick start rules could be included with each kit in the form of a leaflet (just like PP).

AoBR is reallt imbalanced between the marines and orks. Orks have 495 points and marines get about 100 points more.
My example of a starter box would be this:

*Space Marines Starter Package-
1 Space Marine Captain (Just a Power Sword and bolter, like AoBR)
2 Tactical Squads (Each snap-together, and both with just bolters and one missile launcher and flamer each)
Codex: Space Marines
Mini-Rulebook

DoctorZombie wrote:

candy.man wrote:In wouldn’t call the GW battleforces or Assault on Black Reach true starter kits.

The flaw of the battleforces is that they aren’t balanced against each other and vary too much amongst points. The collection of miniatures in the box is usually inadequate to play a proper game anway (missing HQs and tactical punch). As DoctorZombie has already said, the battleforces are more of an army booster pack than a proper starter kit.

The flaw of the two player kits like assault on black reach is that a) the forces are not equal in terms of points and power and b) the kits are too large scale in terms of miniatures and price.

Ideally, GW would need to create PP style starter kits with perhaps a HQ and two min sized troop choices per box (300-500pts). In order for this to work, each starter kit would need to be balanced against its counterparts and be priced around $50-75. Quick start rules could be included with each kit in the form of a leaflet (just like PP).

AoBR is reallt imbalanced between the marines and orks. Orks have 495 points and marines get about 100 points more.
My example of a starter box would be this:

*Space Marines Starter Package-
1 Space Marine Captain (Just a Power Sword and bolter, like AoBR)
2 Tactical Squads (Each snap-together, and both with just bolters and one missile launcher and flamer each)
Codex: Space Marines
Mini-Rulebook

Id like a box with proper minis more. Snapfits are stupid in my opinion, you cant give them cool poes :C

But then again, maybe its better for beginners.

MrMerlin wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote:

candy.man wrote:In wouldn’t call the GW battleforces or Assault on Black Reach true starter kits.

The flaw of the battleforces is that they aren’t balanced against each other and vary too much amongst points. The collection of miniatures in the box is usually inadequate to play a proper game anway (missing HQs and tactical punch). As DoctorZombie has already said, the battleforces are more of an army booster pack than a proper starter kit.

The flaw of the two player kits like assault on black reach is that a) the forces are not equal in terms of points and power and b) the kits are too large scale in terms of miniatures and price.

Ideally, GW would need to create PP style starter kits with perhaps a HQ and two min sized troop choices per box (300-500pts). In order for this to work, each starter kit would need to be balanced against its counterparts and be priced around $50-75. Quick start rules could be included with each kit in the form of a leaflet (just like PP).

AoBR is reallt imbalanced between the marines and orks. Orks have 495 points and marines get about 100 points more.
My example of a starter box would be this:

*Space Marines Starter Package-
1 Space Marine Captain (Just a Power Sword and bolter, like AoBR)
2 Tactical Squads (Each snap-together, and both with just bolters and one missile launcher and flamer each)
Codex: Space Marines
Mini-Rulebook

Id like a box with proper minis more. Snapfits are stupid in my opinion, you cant give them cool poes :C

But then again, maybe its better for beginners.

Which is my point. A battleforce gives you a little more freedom in terms of poses, weapons, etc, but contains a wider variety of units. This is why if GW did this, it wouldn't be to replace the battleforces.

The OP idea is good, but 100$ for two troops and HQ is waaaay to little in price by GW standards. They'd end up charging like 200-300 dollars for that....

I'd imagine that logistics and space is a big reason for not having starter sets for different armies. Imagine having different Assault on Black Reach with every possible combination of army...
Even having a starter box for each army including a rulebook/codex would get crazy as they would need to keep regular battleforces for those who don't want to buy multiple rulebooks every time they want to save some money and add to their army.
PP don't have stores and don't need to worry about merchandising etc- they can produce as many different sets as they wish. Whereas GW have limited shelf and stock space in stores.

AoBR is meant to be a start to the hobby- a complete newbie to 40K can take it home, snap the models together and get playing straight away. I think this is the best way for newbies to get going (remember PP lovers- they've done the same within the past few months). It may not be great for existing, long term hobbyists, but then it's not really meant for us...

Grakmar wrote:and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

Um, all of the battleforces contain playable units.

ParatrooperSimon wrote:The OP idea is good, but 100$ for two troops and HQ is waaaay to little in price by GW standards. They'd end up charging like 200-300 dollars for that....

I really hope you're just trying to make a bad joke, but then again GW treats the Australian dollar like moon money so you might be serious.

Lorizael wrote:

Grakmar wrote:and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

Um, all of the battleforces contain playable units.

I meant playable from a "I want my army to have a chance to win and not just be fielding random terrible units that have no synergy" perspective.

For example, the Eldar Battleforce. It contains 5 DA (4 regular, 1 Exarch), 10 Guardians, a War Walker, and a Wave Serpent.
The War Walker is a welcome add to any army, but you'll need to go out and buy 2 more.
The Wave Serpent is excellent, but the battleforce lacks a unit that makes sense in it.
The Dire Avengers are good, but you either want to run 10 with an Exarch or 5 without an Exarch. 5 with an Exarch makes no sense.
And, the Guardians are only playable in a foot list, which the DA and WS isn't viable in.

Platuan4th wrote:

Castiel wrote:I think it would be a great idea if they put an HQ , 2 troops and a wee rulebook (like the one in AoBR) all in one box for each of the armies. It would make starting out much easier

So, like Privateer Press?

I don't have a clue, I don't play any PP games (yet). I'm guessing that is what I mean from your post though!

ParatrooperSimon wrote:The OP idea is good, but 100$ for two troops and HQ is waaaay to little in price by GW standards. They'd end up charging like 200-300 dollars for that....

The battleforce prices are already extemely high. Three years ago, my SM battleforce was 90$, a great price for my situation at the time. Now, its 125$, and I get nothing different in the box. Maybe GW could raise the prices on the battleforces a bit, but include some better units. I wouldn't mind paying 150$ if I got say, some terminators, a Land Raider, and maybe Scouts or Tactical Marines. If the Battleforce prices were a little more expensive, but contained more powerful units, it would leave a niche for starter boxes with just 2 troops and an HQ.

Its definitely a good idea. They should make far more starter boxes than the two currently.

derek wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers them, but I believe up until Codex: Eldar (there might have been one more after) GW used to do the equivalent of the Megaforce with each release. It had the new codex, and about 1000 points worth of army, plus a mini exclusive to that box. They also did these when the Armageddon3 codex released (I bought both the Black Templar and Salamanders) and as a splash release around the start of 3rd edition (still kicking myself for missing out on the Iyanden army deal).

They were a decent price for what you got. Now you'd end up just paying retail, or possibly more as a convenience charge for them packing it all together.

I believe Chaos Daemons (first edition) was the last army box set. I know it's the last one I bought, and I believe they fell to the wayside.

Grakmar wrote:

Lorizael wrote:

Grakmar wrote:and plenty of them contain units that aren't playable.

Um, all of the battleforces contain playable units.

I meant playable from a "I want my army to have a chance to win and not just be fielding random terrible units that have no synergy" perspective.

Ah I see.
Still that's rather subjective- a good player can make any unit playable I'd hope.

I think they should make 6 different Starter sets for Fantasy and 40k. They sell 1 of each Fantasy and 40k at the store and the rest you buy of the net store.

Ultramarinescout wrote:I think they should make 6 different Starter sets for Fantasy and 40k. They sell 1 of each Fantasy and 40k at the store and the rest you buy of the net store.

I agree. Totally.

rockerbikie wrote:

Ultramarinescout wrote:I think they should make 6 different Starter sets for Fantasy and 40k. They sell 1 of each Fantasy and 40k at the store and the rest you buy of the net store.

I agree. Totally.

Yeah, that would solve the issue of shelf space. Just have the SM box in stores since they're the GW posterboys for 40k, plus whoever for fantasy.