Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I heard that the majority of the Imperial Guard will never see a single Ork, Eldar, Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine in their entire life and that they will spend most of their time fighting rebellions; is that true?

If so, then where the hell do ideas such as "most guardsmen will not live past 3 hours on the battlefield" come from? I'm pretty sure that their 4 months of training(the USMC has the same amount of training) will fare well against a bunch of rebel militas and traitor PDFs

Also don't Guardsmen units such as the Tanith First and Only, Elysian Drop Troops and the Harkoni Warhawks value quality over quantity

The Tanith First-and-Only are called such because their homeworld was destroyed. There are no other Tanith to recruit. They'll take whomever they can get to maintain regiment strength. Those who are good enough to make the grade won't die as quickly as those who aren't. Otherwise? They're not that picky.

However, think of it this way... there's a whole lot of planets in Imperial space. Most of those planets exist in sectors who were, thousands of years ago, purged of all xeno life-forms. The planets in these sectors of space will never, ever see an alien... but they're still required to raise Guard Regiments.

Where did the 3 hour life expectancy come from?
Not all battles are meatgrinders, and not all enemies are willing to engage in such tactics. I can't see eldar or tau committing to a Somme-like battle to bleed the Imperial Forces dry.

The life expectancy for a guardsman on Armageddon against the orks was 15 hours (they named the book 15 hours lol).

DakkaDakka wrote:

Horst wrote:The life expectancy for a guardsman on Armageddon against the orks was 15 hours (they named the book 15 hours lol).

That seems reasonable given that specific environment-The world mobilizing itself completely against foreign invasion, given a gun and sent to the grinder.

Horst wrote:The life expectancy for a guardsman on Armageddon against the orks was 15 hours (they named the book 15 hours lol).

That...that wasn't Armageddon. It was some planet where only one city was being held by the Imperium after years and years of war. Bouchers Roc, I believe.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I heard that the majority of the Imperial Guard will never see a single Ork,

The most common xenos in the galaxy is the Orks, and a Guardsman will more likely face them than Imperial rebellions. Take a look at this map:

[/URL]

I agree with the above.

Orks are everywhere. Like really. All over the place. Also like they're some sort of... fungus (hehehe see what I did there?).

Not all Ork attacks come in the form of major WAAAAGHs. It's most likely that an IG regiment who sees combat will see it against Orks, that or rebels, or simply on some form of garrison/patrol duty.

Imperial Guard never see Tau, Pulse Rifles and Rail Guns open up on them out of human eyesight range.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I heard that the majority of the Imperial Guard will never see a single Ork, Eldar, Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine in their entire life and that they will spend most of their time fighting rebellions; is that true?

It all depends on the world, if your world or sector you are serving deep inside Imperium space. For example: Guardsman from some agri-world will mostly fight off rebelions and maybe some Ork invasion, they may not even see Astartes in their whole life of service. Cadians, Krieg, Armageddon and other well known worlds: their army's fight everything and saw everything, from the smallest of rebellions to the massive Black Crusades.

If so, then where the hell do ideas such as "most guardsmen will not live past 3 hours on the battlefield" come from? I'm pretty sure that their 4 months of training(the USMC has the same amount of training) will fare well against a bunch of rebel militas and traitor PDFs

Well.... USMC aldo the "most powerful military on Earth" ( yeah, right ) is not fighting unstoppable robots with guns that completely rips their skin off, huge monstrous aliens who wants to OM NOM NOM everything, chaotic super humans who wants to kill everyone in a number of painful ways, barbaric aliens who are made for FIGHTEN AND WINNIN', mysterious spehss elves who don't give a gak about anyone else, spehss elves who wants to torture them with the worst form of BDSM and anime fan space communists with guns that can blow them away before they can even see them. In most cases US army had better tech and outnumber their opponent, they also use air power and armor support a LOT. With Guard is different, every enemy is on different level and require totally different tactics. And seeing that most Guard commanders are slowed, most of Guardsman don't get trough 15 hours of single battle, not 3.

Also don't Guardsmen units such as the Tanith First and Only, Elysian Drop Troops and the Harkoni Warhawks value quality over quantity

It all depends on the Regiment. Chenkov see his men only as mean to clear minefields for his tanks. Gaunt see every men under his command like a person, and care about everyone equally, Creed to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Imperial Guard never see Tau, Pulse Rifles and Rail Guns open up on them out of human eyesight range.

Most guardsmen will face orks, tyranids and low level chaos cultists. Most wont see eldar or any flavor, necrons (as per the old codex, new codex they might see them more.), chaos space marines or demons. Some will see Tau, but that's more a regional thing, given how small tau space is.

Of course what complicates whether any guardsman will see some of the other nasties in the universe is that most guardsmen will not live to see anything other than a single enemy, and almost all will not see more than 2. Remember, a guardsman's equipment is worth more than the trooper, so quite often they will be thrown into meat grinder battles because they are just that expendable.

As to the 15 hours thing, I think that really depends on the enemy they face.

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:
Of course what complicates whether any guardsman will see some of the other nasties in the universe is that most guardsmen will not live to see anything other than a single enemy, and almost all will not see more than 2. Remember, a guardsman's equipment is worth more than the trooper, so quite often they will be thrown into meat grinder battles because they are just that expendable.

A bit of maths, if you will. There are 32,380 Hive Worlds in the Imperium. The average population of these worlds is around 200 billion each. We put these together and we get 6.476E15 (6,476,000,000,000,000,000 or 6.476 quintillion or 6.476 billion billion) people on Hive worlds ALONE.

I feel expendable after this calculations....

Depends on the xenos or the degree of chaos incursion. If daemons are present in large numbers, then the entire Inquisition is more than likely gonna bomb every regiment on the planet to ashes. Arguments have erupted between Space Marines and Inquisitors over this matter, as most Space Marines think this dishonors the Guardsmen who stood their ground. As for xenos, ork, tyranid, and tau sightings are alright, and the eldar if they win, but dark eldar, necrons, you'll probably get bombed or mind-wiped by the Inquisition.

Brother Coa wrote:

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:
Of course what complicates whether any guardsman will see some of the other nasties in the universe is that most guardsmen will not live to see anything other than a single enemy, and almost all will not see more than 2. Remember, a guardsman's equipment is worth more than the trooper, so quite often they will be thrown into meat grinder battles because they are just that expendable.

A bit of maths, if you will. There are 32,380 Hive Worlds in the Imperium. The average population of these worlds is around 200 billion each. We put these together and we get 6.476E15 (6,476,000,000,000,000,000 or 6.476 quintillion or 6.476 billion billion) people on Hive worlds ALONE.

I feel expendable after this calculations....

Not all of them are Imperial Guard though just the required 10% of population per year they are forced to provide. This fills up casualties, so yes they are very very expendable. Just not as expendable as the above would make you think.

n0t_u wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

SylvanaSekNadin wrote:
Of course what complicates whether any guardsman will see some of the other nasties in the universe is that most guardsmen will not live to see anything other than a single enemy, and almost all will not see more than 2. Remember, a guardsman's equipment is worth more than the trooper, so quite often they will be thrown into meat grinder battles because they are just that expendable.

A bit of maths, if you will. There are 32,380 Hive Worlds in the Imperium. The average population of these worlds is around 200 billion each. We put these together and we get 6.476E15 (6,476,000,000,000,000,000 or 6.476 quintillion or 6.476 billion billion) people on Hive worlds ALONE.

I feel expendable after this calculations....

Not all of them are Imperial Guard though just the required 10% of population per year they are forced to provide. This fills up casualties, so yes they are very very expendable. Just not as expendable as the above would make you think.

Thats just the hive worlds......... there are probly more then 6.476 quintillioin Guardsmen active..... I need to start using conscripts for population control measures.

They are there to soak up any incoming fire that would scratch the tanks or injure the vets after all.

Joey wrote:Where did the 3 hour life expectancy come from?
Not all battles are meatgrinders, and not all enemies are willing to engage in such tactics. I can't see eldar or tau committing to a Somme-like battle to bleed the Imperial Forces dry.

Its stated by people who look down on the Guard, who else!

Horst wrote:The life expectancy for a guardsman on Armageddon against the orks was 15 hours (they named the book 15 hours lol).

Wrong. It was the average life expectancy for a replacement guardsmen that recently that's been posted to a frontline combat unit and even the book called 'Fifteen Hours' showed that statistics is not all knowing and true seeing as we have guardsmen in the book that have survived fighting the Orks for 10 years and even a couple of months. Oh btw the war that the book talks about wasn't the war for Armageddon.

But hey don't let facts stop your trolling about how the IG and Imperium suck .

MountainSquid wrote:
That...that wasn't Armageddon. It was some planet where only one city was being held by the Imperium after years and years of war. Bouchers Roc, I believe.

My interpretation of that book is that the planet the book talks about are one of the worlds lost due to bureaucratic screwups by the Administratum.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Imperial Guard never see Tau, Pulse Rifles and Rail Guns open up on them out of human eyesight range.

Irrelavant as Artillery, Air strikes and Orbital bombarment make Tau toys look like crap .

SylvanaSekNadin wrote: Remember, a guardsman's equipment is worth more than the trooper, so quite often they will be thrown into meat grinder battles because they are just that expendable.

Again with this rash idea without using common sense thinking. The fact of the matter is that the Munitorium and Administratum say and make a lot of rules that are not always followed or are broken by loopholes and corruption etc. Like for example a Planetary governor is expected to provide 10% of his planets PDF to the guard and thery are to be highly trained but due to nepotism or plain corruption they suck but the PL governor won't care and will still send of these lowly PDF troops who are no renamed IG to die just to fulffil his obligations so as to not be executed or the PL governor doesn't use money to create a PDF and instead wastes it on Art or whatever and when the time comes to provide troops he conscripts some poor smucks and gives them a 4 month training and course and sends them off while saying to the Munitorium that they are fully trained and experienced IG when infact they truly aren't



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deathly Angel wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I heard that the majority of the Imperial Guard will never see a single Ork,

The most common xenos in the galaxy is the Orks, and a Guardsman will more likely face them than Imperial rebellions. Take a look at this map:

[/URL]

Here's a better map:

It all depends on how long they live really. A Guardsmen who lasts a few years is bound to see Orks at the very least eventually, though rebellions and garrison duty is the most common things Guardsmen deal with.

No one is going to mention the Hrud?

KplKeegan wrote:No one is going to mention the Hrud?

Ok now....start counting....:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Minor_Alien_Species_and_Factions#.TsKkaz0r27s

It entirely depends on where the Guardsmen in question is.


If he is around Terra or the Galactic Core, he is probably only going to encounter orks, rebels, and possably the odd Chaos Cult(just mortals with no daemons or CSM)

If he is on the eastern fringe near Ultramar or in Segmentum Obscures, he can encounter Orks, Nids, Tau, and Chaos Cults(again, only minor ones most likely)

If hes on Cadia or the general vicinity, he can expect CSM, Chaos Cultists, and Orks.

Eldar can theoretically be anywhere, but they are utterly impossable to predict. a small chance of them showing up in just about any location is the best prediction.

it is entirely possable a Guardsmen regiment will never see a Xenos and only go after rebels or chaos cultists.


Navy personell may go their entire lifetime without seeing an enemy of any stripe, outside of pict replays and sensor data.

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I heard that the majority of the Imperial Guard will never see a single Ork, Eldar, Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine in their entire life and that they will spend most of their time fighting rebellions; is that true?

Yes, except for Orks. Many IG will see Orks in their lifetime but probably not most of them.

Orks are almost like Cockroaches. Tough to kill, can survive almost anywhere, and just about everyone has them.

many imperial worlds have ork infestations in the more remote areas of the planet that basically just gives the PDF something to do. But if a full born Waaagh enters the system, the resident orks are going to come out in waves for a good old stomping.

They still die when yo shoot them...

But truth to be told, they have more planets then anyone. But the Imperium still is the largest faction out in the galaxy.

Largest unified faction anyway.

The orks as a race have many many more planets then the IoM, then its the IoM.


Nids don't have planets, Chaos has the whole space-time distortion thing going on, and Tau really arn't worth mentioning.

Crons are an interesting one, we really can't say how many worlds they have. Could be millions, could be a few hundred thousand...

Brother Coa wrote:They still die when yo shoot them...

But truth to be told, they have more planets then anyone. But the Imperium still is the largest faction out in the galaxy.

So do most things..

If they refuse to, then upscale the gun

The IOM is the largest cohesive faction in the galaxy (as the nids are mostly outside it and the daemons are in a parallel universe ), holding a lot of worlds, but very spread out,.

The orks hold more galactic space/worlds and have more in numbers, but cohesion is a foreign concept to most orks beyond a world or so. Great Waaaghs break this rule, as then tend to draw all orks within a large area together, but in general orks are not cohesive.

None of the current ork empires is individually a match for the IOM, or any other major player as a whole (except maybe the Tau, as they also have a dinky empire) , but the sheer number of these pocket stellar empires guarantees that wherever you are on the galactic disk you will eventually run into Orks..

I've been getting sick of seeing people claim most guardsman don't survive their first battle and live 15 hours or something equally as stupid.

The background is littered with veteran units who have survived years of combat. The third edition codex had this piece of a soldier of a fresh regiment writing home to his little brother, talking about the veteran unit who they were replacing. After 10 years of solid war, there was still around 200 of them left.

Games Workshop throw the occassional gung-ho, casulties don't matter General and regiment at us occassionally to remind us of the 'grimdark' nature they are trying to portray. But realistically, most Guardsman will have been trained soldiers on their home planet. Who will have then spent the months in transit in training before they reach the first combat zone. 99 times out of 100, they are not just going to be pulled off their farm, handed a lasgun and sent off to fight.

Most Guardsman will only be fighting other humans (seccesstionists, rebellions or chaos influenced) and the ever present Orks. Whilst Orks are dangerous, they are not unstoppable and a competent commander isn't going to engage the Orks on their terms where at all possible. Also, lets not forget lasguns are more than capable weapons in the background, especially against humans and the like. Regardless of what the front of the Imperial Guard Codex might say, the Guard don't usually conduct war by forming up and charging at the enemy.

If life expectancy was as low as so often claimed, the Imperial Guard would go no where. Campaigns would grind to a hault as the Imperial Navy struggled to keep up the supply of bodies. Logistics would become impossible. The Imperium of Man may have the bodies, but it's going to be an extremely well supplied campaign for a world that can say cross off 500 000 men without concern.

At the grand scale, the Imperium may be uncaring. But it's ridiculous to think that all your Colonels, Generals, Lord Generals, Lord Solars and whatever simply throw their men at the enemies guns. Sure, casulties are acceptable, but they are professional soldiers. Most will want to achieve their objective in the most resource efficient manner.

If there's one thing the Imperium hates apart from Xenos and Chaos, it's a waste of resources. Throwing men away needlessly is a waste of resources. A waste of soldiers for one, but also a waste of time. A waste of time training them, arming them and shipping them.

In a drawn out war, it is tough to survive.


There is a difference between the new soldier fatality and the experienced vet. new soldiers don't have the complete set of skills needed to survive. They didn't duck when they should have, didn't hug cover quite enough... Once they get those skills, assuming they are lucky enough to survive, they will have a longer survival rate.


Perhaps a better explaination of the 15 hour Guardsmen survival time is that its a Median number. 1/2 the Guardsmen have worse survival times, 1/2 have better.

besides, the 15 hours was for that specific combat zone. It wouldn't apply to every single combat zone. If you were facing a sustained assault from Chaos forces, I could definitly see life expectancy measured in hours or even minutes.

From what I've read the majority of Guardsmen see Xenos but the majority of Guardsmen don't see Chaos.