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The answer's probably obvious, but when using the deflection ability of the Necron Lychguard's Dispersion Shield, do you have to use the invulnerable save, or can you use your normal save?
Example - you get fired at by a basic tactical squad, i.e. you can use your normal 3+ save - in order to deflect the shots, do you have to use the invulnerable save, or can you use your 3+ basic save?

You have to use the best save available, now I don't have my Cron codex on me atm but I think the "reflect" is only with the invul

jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

Grakmar wrote:jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

What? Surely an invulnerable save is your best save... What kind of shield can deflect seriously powerful weapons like something from a titan, but not a bolter round?

If you have a 4+ invulnerable and a 3+ armor save, the 3+ is better... there's no way to dispute that.

No, please read the eral rules you will see that the "BEST" save is defined as th save with the lowest numerical value.

See page 20, 2nd paragraph under Armour Saves, final line.

Okay, my mistake. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, I can see that 3+ is better than 4+, I was arguing that an invulnerable save is better than a normal one.

If they were the same number yea ... but they're not ... so no

A 4+ invulnerable save is only better than a 3+ armour save when you can't take the armour save (AP, etc.)

Grakmar wrote:jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

I would not use AP as the only method to determine what can reflect the attacks, as there are AP 4 or worse weapons with rending or other random rules.

Grakmar wrote:jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

+1 This is correct for the time being excluding things like rending of course...

Kevin949 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

I would not use AP as the only method to determine what can reflect the attacks, as there are AP 4 or worse weapons with rending or other random rules.

Well, rending makes the attacks AP2. So, my point stands.

Kevin949 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:jd is correct. You have to use the best (defined in the BGB as the lowest) save you have. And, you can only reflect if you are using the invul save.

So, you reflect with AP 1, 2, or 3 weapons. AP 4, 5, 6, or - weapons cannot be reflected. (At least, until 6th edition comes out)

I would not use AP as the only method to determine what can reflect the attacks, as there are AP 4 or worse weapons with rending or other random rules.

Yeah, if the attack rends then the best save available is going to be the 4+ inv.

Portugal Jones wrote:Yeah, if the attack rends then the best save available is going to be the 4+ inv.

1) Assault Cannon Shoots
2) Necrons: "Bah, the shots shall simple bounce off our armor"
3) Necrons: "Lookout mates, that shot rends! Bounce it back at them with your shields!"


God I love how fluff and rules usually never mix.

Nungunz wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:Yeah, if the attack rends then the best save available is going to be the 4+ inv.

1) Assault Cannon Shoots
2) Necrons: "Bah, the shots shall simple bounce off our armor"
3) Necrons: "Lookout mates, that shot rends! Bounce it back at them with your shields!"


God I love how fluff and rules usually never mix.

What if it's like this?

1) Assault Cannon Shoots
2) Necrons: "Bah, let's hope one hits with enough force to power the reflectors. That'll show um."
3) Necrons: "Sweet! Look at that terminator he killed himself! LOL!!!"

It's something sorta lame about the shield, hopefully 6th makes it so if you roll your 3+, any 4,5,6's allow you to deflect the shot still. Doubtful... but I hope lol

Then there is always the special character with the 4+ save 3+ inv. Yes you have 4+ armor that you will never use( unless 6 th allows for 2 saves.)

Don't forget zoanthropes with 5+/3++.

Or that you are allowed to pick which save to use, that way you can gamble between a 3+ armor or a 4+ invul that could reflect.

Fun fact: the main rulebook states that you CAN (or may) use your best save, never that you must use your best save. So even though your 3+ is numerically superior, if you're feeling lucky (punk) you can go for the deflect.

Look again. From page 24 of the Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rulebook:

In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save.

No choice. You always use the best available save.

Fun Fact, if you're feeling lucky you're stuck with the 3+ if you can take it ...

Mathek wrote:Fun fact: the main rulebook states that you CAN (or may) use your best save, never that you must use your best save. So even though your 3+ is numerically superior, if you're feeling lucky (punk) you can go for the deflect.

More Fun Fact Ghaz is right

Ghaz wrote:Look again. From page 24 of the Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rulebook:

In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save.

No choice. You always use the best available save.

Woah man, geez. Look I always ran it that way too until someone showed me somewhere in the rulebook where it said that the model can/may take its best save. i don't claim to have photographic memory nor encyclopedic knowledge on the entirety of the 40k rulebook, but I thought I could contribute what little I did know. No need for the harsh vibes. I stand suitably corrected.

No harsh vibes, but it does pay to always check your sources before posting.

Mathek wrote:Woah man, geez. Look I always ran it that way too until someone showed me somewhere in the rulebook where it said that the model can/may take its best save. i don't claim to have photographic memory nor encyclopedic knowledge on the entirety of the 40k rulebook, but I thought I could contribute what little I did know. No need for the harsh vibes. I stand suitably corrected.

Didn't think that was harsh, in fact I went out of my way to make it less harsh than originally.

My bad, not tryin to ripple the pond.

Ghaz wrote:Look again. From page 24 of the Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rulebook:

In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save.

No choice. You always use the best available save.

Surely that could mean it has the advantage of always having a backup of the best available save, i.e. you can still use the invulnerable one with dispersion shields?

Is the invul save the best available? Or is your normal armor save better than the invul?

The invuln is better. It has more associated benefits.

EDIT: That is to say, the definition of 'best' in the Merriam-Webster dictionary is "the most productive good." In some situations, the invuln is the save "with the most productive good" and in other's it's the armor save.

Seems entirely subjective to me.

Unit1126PLL wrote:The invuln is better. It has more associated benefits.

The rulebook says that lower saves are better. It does not mention any other benefits. Therefore the invul save is not better.

Well, I know the rules say that you must take the best save, but 9/10 time that is common sense. I don't see many people complaining that their opponent is using his 6++ Combat Shield save to stop a Bolter round instaed of Artificer Armour.

But a problem does arise in the fact that dispersion shields have an added ability.

The way I see it, sure, 1/6 of your shots could potentially hurt hurt your own unit, but in the process, your opponent now has a greater chance of dying. Fair trade.