Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Whats the average wargamers (or dakka-users) political attitude? I've been wondering for quite a while now, so I started a poll.

I'm left

Liberal with some right-wing views

which ever benefits me.

...Gah, I have some very " leftist" views on a great many subjects...but a few " right wing" views too....

Where's the "Couldn't give a crap, coz it'll all turn out to be lies and u-turned upon" option?

Also what about the no idea option.

Americans have a very different idea of left and right wing compared to the UK and Europe. Obama is middle right, and the GOP are far right, by most comparisons. The GOP are much more right wing than our conservatives. Words like liberal and socialist are not applied correctly and are used as slurs. Unfortunately the UK seems to be showing a bit of that too.

Patrick Bateman wrote:Well, we have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

Pretty much sums it up.

Conservative with libertarian leanings.

In all seriousness, I guess I'm pretty hard to pin down - I'm ultra-liberal about some things, whereas on other issues I'm at the extreme right of the spectrum.

I vote Conservative, if that's any help.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Americans have a very different idea of left and right wing compared to the UK and Europe. Obama is middle right, and the GOP are far right, by most comparisons. The GOP are much more right wing than our conservatives. Words like liberal and socialist are not applied correctly and are used as slurs. Unfortunately the UK seems to be showing a bit of that too.

Howie I'm pretty sure you've been skewed the wrong direction on American politics, which in respect to European politics is distinctly left. Our constitution and bill of rights are right out of the liberal playbook. The last part is spot on, but Obama is center left if I'm being generous, far left if I'm not...socialized medical care certainly is not a "middle right" policy. If Obama is center left, Max Baucus also a democrat is center right. And the republicans by and large are bonkers right.
I'm a centrist, I even like the American Populist platform I saw, but I most closely identify with the Montana Democratic party, it's no great coincidence I'm from Montana.

AustonT wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Americans have a very different idea of left and right wing compared to the UK and Europe. Obama is middle right, and the GOP are far right, by most comparisons. The GOP are much more right wing than our conservatives. Words like liberal and socialist are not applied correctly and are used as slurs. Unfortunately the UK seems to be showing a bit of that too.

Howie I'm pretty sure you've been skewed the wrong direction on American politics, which in respect to European politics is distinctly left. Our constitution and bill of rights are right out of the liberal playbook.

Eh? Much of the US constitution is borrowed from Europe, specifically England, though the more rabid American jingoists often refuse to admit it.

The last part is spot on, but Obama is center left if I'm being generous, far left if I'm not...socialized medical care certainly is not a "middle right" policy.

Depends how you argue it. By calling it 'socialised medical care' you've rhetorically placed it on the left, whereas if you used 'national' or 'federal' it wouldn't sound as socialist, and therefore would be less completely gak-your-pants terrifying. I'm a nationalist, therefore I see the National Health Service as an important tool in the maintenance of a strong and healthy nation. It binds us together, not out of social concern, but out of a concern for national well-being.

Still sound left-wing?

Where's the "common sense" option?

Honestly, I don't like saying "I'm left/right wing" for fear of associating myself with one of the parties in our government that can't figure out how to balance a budget...

I'm certainly more liberal minded than my family though...

Liberal for me.
But i feel you should add "Conservative" as a poll option. would't want anyone to feel left out would you....

In the US political spectrum, I don't really fit in to any category, but I am closest to a libertarian. That is, until someone starts talking about disbanding the Dept of Education or otherwise goes pants-on-head.

AustonT wrote:Howie I'm pretty sure you've been skewed the wrong direction on American politics, which in respect to European politics is distinctly left.

Compared to who? The democracies in South America are typically even further to the left. Australia is more to the right of Europe, but New Zealand isn't. So really, once you look at the democracies of the world, the European countries sit somewhere in the middle, and the US is way out on the end by itself.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. A democracy is just supposed to represent, more or less, the general political values of it's voters. The voters of the US are generally more right wing, that's all.

Our constitution and bill of rights are right out of the liberal playbook.

It's important to consider how the word liberal has changed over the years. It was originally a movement informed by the new ideas of personal freedom, and the developing field of economics that argued for removing all barriers to trade. Until very recently, it still meant that across most of the world. Here in Australia our right wing party is called the Liberal party.

The term came to mean something very different in the US, quite some time ago, and slowly, due to the dominance of US media, the term 'liberal' is assuming the American meaning elsewhere in the world.

Which is really just a long winded way of saying that I agree that the constitution and bill of rights are right out of the liberal playbook, but they're out of the old school meaning of the word liberal, and have little to do with the modern meaning. And really, that's just kind of how politics works, the old school liberals won the argument back in the day, beating out the dominionists and all the rest to establish a state founded on personal liberty and the seperation of church and state.

The last part is spot on, but Obama is center left if I'm being generous, far left if I'm not...socialized medical care certainly is not a "middle right" policy.

The policies Obama adopted for his 'socialised medicine' came from Republican policy initiatives. The left wing policy option, that was generally endorsed by the Democrats, involved direct government provision of healthcare at a minimum level, with the option to buy higher level healthcare through private insurers. Instead, Obama took a Republican policy initiative, to require health insurers to take on everyone, and require everyone to take out healthcare, as a market based solution, because the logic goes that any model where pricing and services are primarily drawn from the interaction of buyers and sellers will be cheaper than

Exactly how much Obama did that because he wanted a centralist reform that would get bipartisan support (and that really worked wonders ), and how much he did this because he actually believed a market based solution was the best option is up for debate. I think it's probably a little of each.

Which pretty much makes him a centrist in US politics.

If Obama is center left, Max Baucus also a democrat is center right. And the republicans by and large are bonkers right.

According to the rest of the world, that's pretty much how we see it. Seriously, Obama would be unelectable in much of the world, because his policies would be seen as two far to the right. Which is really odd when you consider how popular he is around the world.

I am an Anarchist. Screw all the government. They're just mouthpieces for the global megacorporate elites anyway. Always have been. Left and right are just tricks played on people, to distract them from reality.

alarmingrick wrote:Liberal for me.
But i feel you should add "Conservative" as a poll option. would't want anyone to feel left out would you....

It's kind of an odd poll, really. Even if you accept the logic of having just a single axis (and so a person can't be socially left wing and economically right wing, such as a libertarian) it seems strange that a liberal would sit in the middle. By either understanding of that term, they don't sit in the middle, they're either centre right or centre left.

There's no middle ground? I'm liberal on some social issues and conservative on some economic issues so I can't say that I'm right or left.

sebster wrote:According to the rest of the world, that's pretty much how we see it. Seriously, Obama would be unelectable in much of the world, because his policies would be seen as two far to the right. Which is really odd when you consider how popular he is around the world.

I think that's going a bit far, but I would say that Obama is popular because he's a charismatic reasonable person. And after George Bush, and the future prospects of anyone from the tea party, well Obama is highly desirable as a moderate individual given how important the US is in the world's affairs.

warpcrafter wrote:I am an Anarchist. Screw all the government. They're just mouthpieces for the Jews anyway. Always have been. Left and right are just tricks played on people, to distract them from the Jewish lizard conspiracy. It goes all the way to the TOP, man!

Uh-oh, I feel you may have said too much, warpcrafter!

Albatross wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:I am an Anarchist. Screw all the government. They're just mouthpieces for the Jews anyway. Always have been. Left and right are just tricks played on people, to distract them from the Jewish lizard conspiracy. It goes all the way to the TOP, man!

Uh-oh, I feel you may have said too much, warpcrafter!

warpcrafter or.....Mel Gibson?!?!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sebster wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:Liberal for me.
But i feel you should add "Conservative" as a poll option. would't want anyone to feel left out would you....

It's kind of an odd poll, really. Even if you accept the logic of having just a single axis (and so a person can't be socially left wing and economically right wing, such as a libertarian) it seems strange that a liberal would sit in the middle. By either understanding of that term, they don't sit in the middle, they're either centre right or centre left.

I though it was just where it was placed, not meaning the 'center'! you're correct.

AustonT wrote:
Howie I'm pretty sure you've been skewed the wrong direction on American politics, which in respect to European politics is distinctly left.

What definition of "left" are you using?

warpcrafter wrote:I am an Anarchist. Screw all the government. They're just mouthpieces for the global megacorporate elites anyway. Always have been. Left and right are just tricks played on people, to distract them from reality.

This is the most reasonable post I've ever read on any internet thingy.

mega_bassist wrote:Liberal with some right-wing views

Indeed.

alarmingrick wrote:I though it was just where it was placed, not meaning the 'center'! you're correct.

Possibly, that does make sense. But then where's the conservative option, or the centrist option?

Erm...

Cannerus... Is that you in the bunny mask?

I am hard supporter of Socalism...

Chowderhead wrote:Erm...

Cannerus... Is that you in the bunny mask?

I've been wondering that too. I guess I haven't asked because I was afraid of the answer, mainly because it's not possible to 'un-masturbate'...

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think that's going a bit far, but I would say that Obama is popular because he's a charismatic reasonable person. And after George Bush, and the future prospects of anyone from the tea party, well Obama is highly desirable as a moderate individual given how important the US is in the world's affairs.

He is certainly charismatic, and that plays a part in his popularity. And he certainly isn't Bush, and we all really hated that guy, and Obama's general diplomatic efforts of outreach are certainly going to be more effective than Bush's 'because feth you, that's why' approach to diplomatic relations.

But at their core, Obama's government trucks on with policies that would see him voted out of just about any other country. As an example, his policy on Israel is less pro-Israel than most of his predecessors, but he still keeps the US as Israel's #1 ally, and doesn't even consider that changing.