Cops shoot family’s barking puppy...

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**Asherian Command**

And you thought Black Friday was bad ha!
newssun.suntimes.com/8069279-418/round-lake-beach-cops-shoot-familys-barking-puppy.html

Javel Townsend said his two sons, ages 10 and 11, are crying and hollering in their sleep, calling out their beloved puppy’s name.

That’s because the Townsend family is grieving the loss of Altgeld, their shepherd/hound mix puppy. Townsend alleges a Round Lake Beach police officer shot and killed the dog earlier this week.

“I guess police got fed up with him barking and shot him,” Townsend said Thursday. “I want to know why they had to shoot him.”

Townsend moved into the 1600 block of Lotus Drive about a week before school started. As a new tenant, he was unaware of a hole in the fence enclosing his yard until Altgeld escaped Tuesday.

He heard gun shots around the time he realized Altgeld was missing. He has a second, older dog that did not escape the yard.

“I didn’t think the actual gunshots had to do with my dogs, but when I heard (the shots), I tried to call my dogs in,” Townsend said.

He was initially concerned that a stray bullet would hit one of his dogs. When Altgeld didn’t respond, Townsend went outside where a neighbor said police were dealing with a dog on the next block.

Townsend found his dog dead near two police officers.

Christy Matthews of Johnsburg said she witnessed the dog’s shooting.

She grew up on Woodridge Street (which intersects with Lotus near Townsend’s home) and was driving down the street when she said she saw a Round Lake Beach police officer aiming a weapon at a barking dog.

“It was by chance that day when we (Matthews and her sister) turned down the road,” Matthews said.

She watched the dog, later identified as Altgeld, barking. The dog walked three to four feet toward the police officer, then backed away into a yard.

Altgeld was barking a lot, but was not foaming at the mouth or acting aggressively, Matthews said.

“The dog did not do anything. It wasn’t even a big dog — it came up maybe to the officer’s knee,” Matthews said.

She said she saw the officer fire four to five shots at the dog.

“I can’t believe a dog would get shot for barking,” Matthews said. “I don’t believe any living thing should be executed that way. It was horrible.”

She described herself as an animal lover. She also owns a shepherd mix, which is a vocal breed, she said.

“I couldn’t believe my eyes ... I’m completely devastated. I don’t understand how an officer can justify shooting a dog like this,” Matthews said.

Townsend was issued tickets for the dog not having shots, for owning a dangerous dog and for the dog being at large. He is due in court Nov. 1 and is in discussions with an attorney.

“I’m going to fight this,” Townsend said.

Altgeld was named after John Peter Altgeld, an Illinois governor in 1896.

Round Lake Beach police did not return a phone call seeking comment.

I am a dog lover but. Wow Really? This is not the first time the Police in this area have killed animals....
All in Illionis...
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-09-10/news/ct-x-s-shot-dog-0910-20100910_1_police-officer-family-dog-animal-welfare-league
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-227323.html
http://www.lincolncourier.com/features/x1234471659/Lincoln-police-kill-charging-pit-bull
http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Police-kill-escaped-tiger-at-Illinois-truck-stop-2107090.php
http://oakpark.patch.com/articles/river-forest-police-shoot-kill-hobbled-deer
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-04-15/news/0804140895_1_cougar-illinois-north-side
My question is instead of shooting and killing the animal why not shot it with a dart and ensure that the animal doesn't die. Just put into captivity holy moly.

**Howard A Treesong**

Don't you call the dog pound or something to deal with animals that are loose? You don't shoot them five times.

**LordofHats**

Howard A Treesong wrote:five times.

That does seem a little excessive for a puppy...

**purplefood**

Bad business...

**Necroshea**

Javel Townsend said his two sons, ages 10 and 11, are crying and hollering in their sleep, calling out their beloved puppy’s name.
Seems like an attempt to have you side with the writer by using children

“I guess police got fed up with him barking and shot him,” Townsend said Thursday. “I want to know why they had to shoot him.”
Key word here, guess

Christy Matthews of Johnsburg said she witnessed the dog’s shooting.

She grew up on Woodridge Street (which intersects with Lotus near Townsend’s home) and was driving down the street when she said she saw a Round Lake Beach police officer aiming a weapon at a barking dog.
Ok, a witness to the event, this gives us an idea of what happened

Altgeld was barking a lot, but was not foaming at the mouth or acting aggressively, Matthews said.
A stray dog barking at you sounds pretty agressive to me

“The dog did not do anything. It wasn’t even a big dog — it came up maybe to the officer’s knee,” Matthews said.
Big enough to cause you harm if they wanted to

She described herself as an animal lover. She also owns a shepherd mix, which is a vocal breed, she said.
Red flag here. Her opinions could very well be shaping her interpretation of events

Townsend was issued tickets for the dog not having shots, for owning a dangerous dog and for the dog being at large. He is due in court Nov. 1 and is in discussions with an attorney.
Witness has just lost credibility

My question is instead of shooting and killing the animal why not shot it with a dart and ensure that the animal doesn't die. Just put into captivity holy moly.

Well, not every police HQ has a tranq rifle handy. I would imagine the officer in question felt it better to put down a stray barking dog, then go to all the trouble of catching it. Then again, I really don't know, as I wasn't there to see it. However, I've got a feeling the "eye witness" is clouding the truth here.

Edit(s) - Coding fixed

**Asherian Command**

Worst thing is the guy is going to court for not having a shot for the dog. Seems a little excessive to shoot a german sheperd especially if all they do is bark. They take care of sheep. Of course they are going to bark. Eh IL police are really bad.

**Velour_Fog**

LordofHats wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:five times.

That does seem a little excessive for a puppy...

Shooting it at all is excessive.

Cops were probably bored rather than threatened. Saw it as a bit of fun, and just say that they were in terrible danger.

**Asherian Command**

Necroshea wrote:Javel Townsend said his two sons, ages 10 and 11, are crying and hollering in their sleep, calling out their beloved puppy’s name.
Seems like an attempt to have you side with the writer by using children

“I guess police got fed up with him barking and shot him,” Townsend said Thursday. “I want to know why they had to shoot him.”
Key word here, guess

Christy Matthews of Johnsburg said she witnessed the dog’s shooting.

She grew up on Woodridge Street (which intersects with Lotus near Townsend’s home) and was driving down the street when she said she saw a Round Lake Beach police officer aiming a weapon at a barking dog.
Ok, a witness to the event, this gives us an idea of what happened

Altgeld was barking a lot, but was not foaming at the mouth or acting aggressively, Matthews said.
A stray dog barking at you sounds pretty agressive to me

“The dog did not do anything. It wasn’t even a big dog — it came up maybe to the officer’s knee,” Matthews said.
Big enough to cause you harm if they wanted to

She described herself as an animal lover. She also owns a shepherd mix, which is a vocal breed, she said.
Red flag here. Here opinions could very well be shaping her interpretation of events

Townsend was issued tickets for the dog not having shots, for owning a dangerous dog and for the dog being at large. He is due in court Nov. 1 and is in discussions with an attorney.
Witness has just lost credibility

My question is instead of shooting and killing the animal why not shot it with a dart and ensure that the animal doesn't die. Just put into captivity holy moly.

Well, not every police HQ has a tranq rifle handy. I would imagine the officer in question felt it better to put down a stray barking dog, then go to all the trouble of catching it. Then again, I really don't know, as I wasn't there to see it. However, I've got a feeling the "eye witness" is clouding the truth here.

What in the world is going on with my coding...trying to fix it...

If you lived in IL, you would know that in the sururbs the police here get horribely bored because there are no major problems, they usually just pull people over and they are usually trigger happy. A police officer literally told me this. "I would shoot a kid if I saw that he had an airsoft gun. I don't care its a Lethal weapon." Then he said. "If we didn't know any better we would of gotten a sniper and no questions asked, fired upon you kids." Two parents turned around and told the officer to leave the property. *facepalm*
The police just like to shoot stuff. And the ones in the city. some of them haven't even fired a shot because they don't want to kill anyone. But the ones in the urbs. Are trigger happy. I heard that from a Detective from Chicago.

**TrollPie**

Altgeld was barking a lot, but was not foaming at the mouth or acting aggressively, Matthews said.
A stray dog barking at you sounds pretty agressive to me

All dogs bark. My dog barks all the time, and she's never bitten a thing. That doesn't give you the right to shoot them.

“The dog did not do anything. It wasn’t even a big dog — it came up maybe to the officer’s knee,” Matthews said.
Big enough to cause you harm if they wanted to

Key word: Wanted to. The police had no reason to believe that this dog was dangerous, they simply shot it.

Townsend was issued tickets for the dog not having shots, for owning a dangerous dog and for the dog being at large. He is due in court Nov. 1 and is in discussions with an attorney.
Witness has just lost credibility

The witness has lost credibility because the dog hadn't had shots?

**Asherian Command**

TrollPie wrote:

Altgeld was barking a lot, but was not foaming at the mouth or acting aggressively, Matthews said.
A stray dog barking at you sounds pretty agressive to me

All dogs bark. My dog barks all the time, and she's never bitten a thing. That doesn't give you the right to shoot them.

“The dog did not do anything. It wasn’t even a big dog — it came up maybe to the officer’s knee,” Matthews said.
Big enough to cause you harm if they wanted to

Key word: Wanted to. The police had no reason to believe that this dog was dangerous, they simply shot it.

Townsend was issued tickets for the dog not having shots, for owning a dangerous dog and for the dog being at large. He is due in court Nov. 1 and is in discussions with an attorney.
Witness has just lost credibility

The witness has lost credibility because the dog hadn't had shots?

I think that dog might of being going to get it's shots hell we couldn't get my dog shots until he was 2 because he just taken several different shots. Doesn't give the right to the police to shoot my dog for barking at them.
Oh no a barking dog. Plus this pup is incredibely small how could this

be considered a threat?

**xxmatt85**

Who shoots a dog for barking? Thats like a person shooting a woman for being pregnant, the cop must of have really serious issues.

**Necroshea**

A cop, who's job is to maintain the peace of the community, has an encounter with a stray dog showing signs of aggression (yes people, barking can be a sign of aggression). If you cannot make sense out of why the cop would shoot such a dog then I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe the cop was trigger happy, maybe not, but the idea of a cop shooting an aggressive stray dog makes more sense than a cop waltzing about the neighborhood looking for something to shoot at.

Also, the fact that the dog was stray seems to be overlooked here.

**Howard A Treesong**

This might just be me, but a stray dog that is barking is not enough of a reason to fire a gun in the street let alone repeatedly.

**Jihadin**

4-5 shots huh...they need to go back to the range. Takes two shots for us to put down a feral dog from a distance...

**Nerivant**

xxmatt85 wrote:Who shoots a dog for barking? Thats like a person shooting a woman for being pregnant, the cop must of have really serious issues.

I didn't realize that pregnancy was potentially an aggressive response triggered by approaching a woman's territory.

Barking can mean a lot of thing. From "oh hey! Lookatme! Lookatme!" to "in about four seconds, I'm going to hop this fence, run over there, and tear your throat out with my teeth."

**Karon**

Necroshea wrote:A cop, who's job is to maintain the peace of the community, has an encounter with a stray dog showing signs of aggression (yes people, barking can be a sign of aggression). If you cannot make sense out of why the cop would shoot such a dog then I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe the cop was trigger happy, maybe not, but the idea of a cop shooting an aggressive stray dog makes more sense than a cop waltzing about the neighborhood looking for something to shoot at.

Also, the fact that the dog was stray seems to be overlooked here.

The dog is the size of my fething foot (size 17), bro. It isn't harming anyone, and the cop is a huge prick.

Barking isn't aggression, and the article said the Dog was backing into a yard likely because it was scared.

Just because he's a police officer doesn't mean he is of any higher status than us. He's a bastard who abuses his authority because he can get away with it.

You defending that is nothing but pathetic.

**Kilkrazy**

This has happened before.

The conclusion is that the police are fully entitled to shoot dogs that might possibly bite them.

**Necroshea**

Kilkrazy wrote:The conclusion is that the police are fully entitled to shoot dogs that might possibly bite them.

/thread

Karon wrote:You defending that is nothing but pathetic.

Sorry you feel that way

**Kanluwen**

Karon wrote:
The dog is the size of my fething foot (size 17), bro. It isn't harming anyone, and the cop is a huge prick.

Sorry, what kind of dogs do the most damage to small children?
Oh that's right. Small dogs. Terriers, weiner dogs, etc all can do some serious damage to a small child--or even an adult if the adult is careless. If the police are called to deal with a stray(which they shouldn't be, but that's a different matter entirely)

Barking isn't aggression, and the article said the Dog was backing into a yard likely because it was scared.

And dogs bite "when they're scared".
Barking can be the onset of aggressive behavior though.
The article is also clearly a puff piece, but that's again another matter entirely.

Just because he's a police officer doesn't mean he is of any higher status than us.

Actually, it does. It's why police have to go through training and can temporarily revoke someone's freedoms in the form of arrest while you can't without potentially facing a kidnapping charge.

He's a bastard who abuses his authority because he can get away with it.

Sorry, so you know the officer personally? You were at this event?
Please. Fill in the rest of the circumstances.

Oh. You can't, because you don't know this officer personally and you weren't at this event.

You defending that is nothing but pathetic.

And your anti-authority lectures and "eff the po-po" stance are getting tiresome.

Kilkrazy wrote:This has happened before.

The conclusion is that the police are fully entitled to shoot dogs that might possibly bite them.

Yes and no. It has to do with the circumstances. If it's during a breach or serving a warrant, they usually are. Animal control occasionally are present at these breaches or serving of these warrants if there's known to be a dog and it's "safe" for them to be present without endangering either the law enforcement officers or animal control officers.

In this circumstance it sounds like there might be more than this puff piece is telling us, but what else is new. We know that the dog escaped through a hole in a fence and didn't have its shots, and might not even have had a collar on.

**halonachos**

Karon wrote:
Necroshea wrote:A cop, who's job is to maintain the peace of the community, has an encounter with a stray dog showing signs of aggression (yes people, barking can be a sign of aggression). If you cannot make sense out of why the cop would shoot such a dog then I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe the cop was trigger happy, maybe not, but the idea of a cop shooting an aggressive stray dog makes more sense than a cop waltzing about the neighborhood looking for something to shoot at.

Also, the fact that the dog was stray seems to be overlooked here.

The dog is the size of my fething foot (size 17), bro. It isn't harming anyone, and the cop is a huge prick.

The size doesn't matter as even small teeth can rip and tear, there's a reason that Dachshunds were used to hunt badgers.

Also the sites that were listed in the OP don't give signs of the cops being complete dicks. Cops shooting a charging pitbull is a sign of defense, shooting dangerous animals(tiger and cougar) is also pretty standard because they're fething dangerous animals. Also its beneficial to kill an injured deer and part of the hunter's code of ethics to make clean kills so the animal doesn't suffer too much.

As well, its important to make sure that your dogs don't, you know, wander around. That's part of being a responsible pet owner.

This case though is bad and from what I can read it seems that the officers should be punished for shooting the puppy for little reason.

**CT GAMER**

LordofHats wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:five times.

That does seem a little excessive for a puppy...

Maybe they thought it was an occupy protester...

**Jihadin**

Maybe they thought it was an occupy protester...

"Sorrys Sir...we had a runaway weapon....and we couldn't brak the links...um saftey issue...no gloves....so 250 rounds belt through the tube...well um.....it started off with the occupier barking...prior training took over".

**Space Crusader**

This is clearly a killing machine that the american police cannot handle. Can the police not solve things without A:using guns, B

epperspray or C:Ganging up on someone?

**poda_t**

Asherian Command wrote:
If you lived in IL, you would know that in the sururbs the police here get horribely bored because there are no major problems, they usually just pull people over and they are usually trigger happy. A police officer literally told me this. "I would shoot a kid if I saw that he had an airsoft gun. I don't care its a Lethal weapon." Then he said. "If we didn't know any better we would of gotten a sniper and no questions asked, fired upon you kids." Two parents turned around and told the officer to leave the property. *facepalm*
The police just like to shoot stuff. And the ones in the city. some of them haven't even fired a shot because they don't want to kill anyone. But the ones in the urbs. Are trigger happy. I heard that from a Detective from Chicago.

do you believe you are special for having police that will do that? the same thing happens everywhere in the world. A police officer is requred to assume that any weapon held by another person is lethal. What, do you suppose police offers would not shoot a man wearing a ski-mask becuse he has a gun spray-painted blue with an orange tip painted around its tip? Don't be naive, its increadible easy repaint a weapon. When it comes to firearms police have a shoot first ask questions later policy if the offending individual does not surrender himself and his firearm immediately. Consider that police still have families and lives of their own. THey also need to think of their own safety under the circumstnace. If being an officer was a 24/7 take it up the *cave* kind of job, it would be counterproductive to what the police are there to do.

As for the dog, german shephards are aggro, why the seven hells do you think police use them? Here is a dog that is probably unlicensed, without the correct vaccinations, loose in the street. Officers are still required to act in the best interests of their own safety. I don't think you people understand how badly even a jack russell terrier can savage you. My mother had to get 7 stitches on her finger because the russell bit her as she was trying to separate our dog from the russell before my dog got PO'd and destroyed it. Size doesn't matter. If it comes up to your knees, and its an aggro breed, its big enough to cause serious damage. Under the information provided in this article, the police acted accordingly.

You have to realise that police are also human. Any parents in this thread can realise how frustrating it is when you have 3 little ones that are causing all sorts of gak all the time, eventually, you just snap on all three of them, and don't care who started it, because you sure as damn well are going to finish it. They get a *little* tired of having to deal with people's dumb exploits when those people have been warned, told or otherwise dealt with, or have to deal with the same thing several times over, especially when you know that these people should know better.

EDIT(s): finished thoughts, grammar and removed some expletives.

**Kanluwen**

Space Crusader wrote:

This is clearly a killing machine that the american police cannot handle. Can the police not solve things without A:using guns, Bepperspray or C:Ganging up on someone?

Can you ever chime in on anything about "American police" with anything that isn't trolling?

What's that? You can't, because you really have no clue what in the world you're talking about?

Well that's okay then. Let me educate you:

Police aren't supposed to "handle" dogs. If they're called, usually it's because a dog has attacked someone and the person who was attacked wants to file charges against the owner for negligence. In this case it sounds like the officers were called in about a stray, and seeing as how they don't carry tranquilizer guns(since tranquilizer guns require very specific ratios of tranquilizer to mass of the animal, metabolism, etc) they likely would have tried to approach or call the dog to get it to come to them to check it for tags.

If the dog had bitten someone or was acting like it was rabid, pretty much the only humane thing they can do is shoot it. Pepper spray, tasers, etc can all cause death or permanent injuries fairly easily in dogs. Which if that had happened would be construed as "animal cruelty".

And just as an FYI: there's a reason pepper spray or "ganging up on someone"(what the feth is this supposed to mean? Cops "gang up on someone"? Where? You mean during an arrest? That's called forcing submission) are used. They don't result in harmful side-effects even used relatively improperly...you know, side-effects like death.

**poda_t**

Karon wrote:...
Barking isn't aggression...

if there is a cat on your lap, do you immediately stop touching it the moment it hisses at you? Yes. It's a sign of aggression. Barking is a neutral sign in and of itself. This article does not give us the information of what posture the dog had. If the dog was low, ears back and teeth bared when it was barking, then it was an aggressive stance .

If you think police are overagressive self-superior types, and you think they need to be put in their place, maybe why don't you go ahead and join the police force and restore the balance if you are so just? Then we can criticize you every time you do absolutely anything, and then crap down your neck when you don't do anything, and blame you for not keeping criminals off the street every time the court releases them back out into public.

**Melissia**

How the feth is a tiny dog barking at you threatening?

Gak, I'd just kick the damn thing and send it flying...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

poda_t wrote:if there is a cat on your lap, do you immediately stop touching it the moment it hisses at you?

You fail at interpreting animal body language / sounds.

Our family dogs bark in excitement any time someone pulls up the driveway because they want attention. Now if the dogs were GROWLING, yeah, they're being aggressive. But barking? They're just saying hello.

Geeze, I know this much and I'm a cat lover, I hate dogs. You must have never really had any interactions with animals in your life... if you only know your cat is angry when they're hissing, you're REALLY not paying attention. To someone whom actually KNOWS their cat and pays attention, the signs are obvious well before then.

**poda_t**

Melissia wrote:How the feth is a tiny dog barking at you threatening?

Gak, I'd just kick the damn thing and send it flying...

I don't think you appreciate just how badly a dog can savage you. Coming up to your knees is more than big enough.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

poda_t wrote:if there is a cat on your lap, do you immediately stop touching it the moment it hisses at you?
You fail at interpreting animal body language / sounds.

Our family dogs bark in excitement any time someone pulls up the driveway because they want attention. Now if the dogs were GROWLING, yeah, they're being aggressive. But barking? They're just saying hello.

No, I actually I do not fail at interpreting animal body languge or sounds. Dogs do bark when they are agressive, it's something that was bred into dogs so that they could raise an alarm. There is also a clear distinction between the way an excited bark and an aggressive bark sounds. If the dog is maintaining a low posture and growling or barking, its an agressive stance, it's one I watch out for every time I encounter other dogs when I'm in the park, and sure enough whenever either dog has that posture, one of them starts trying to snap at the other's face. Generally speaking, an excited dog does not stand 6 feet from you, staring you down, maintaining a low/ready posture while growling OR barking at you. I have never seen an excited dog behave like that.

We've had a large number of dogs, and my mother was a dog trainer. She worked with the police department training some of their dogs. One dog wound its way into our hands after it had been through a few other trainers to try and calm the dog down (german shaphard). We had limited success and had to put the animal down because it was simply too aggressive to use as a police dog and posed a real danger to anyone entering the property, invited or otherwise.

This article does not give enough information, but I'm pretty sure that the dog wasn't barking in joy.

**Melissia**

poda_t wrote:I don't think you appreciate just how badly a dog can savage you

I know how badly a dog can savage me.

But I also am more competent than around animals the police officer indicated in the original post, and am able to recognize body language and know that barking is by itself not an indicate aggression.

poda_t wrote:No, I actually I do not fail at interpreting animal body languge or sounds.

Yes you did. It did not say growling. It didn't say snapping. It didn't say there's any aggressive stance being taken, or a defensive stance for that matter. Only that it was barking.

Dogs can bark when they're happy. Dogs can bark when they're just plain bored. Dogs can bark when they're mad. Or when they're just saying hi. Barking alone does not indicate aggression, no matter how much you might try to claim otherwise. You might as well say that greeting someone is aggressive, and therefor you should be able to shoot anyone who greets you.

**monkeyh**

Sorry to tar them all with the same brush, but american police seem a bit trigger happy when it comes to animals, bit like when they shot all them endangered lions / tigers etc that some idiot let loose, (couldn't they have darted them?).