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I've been thinking about the Imperium facing the tyranid threat and surely the way to defeat them effectively must be a mixture of Space-guerrila warfare and slash and burn retreats. If you leave nothing on the planets for the nids to devour then they become increasingly unable to replace losses. If you lay minefields and make flanking strikes upon them from space, attempting to damage the big synaps vessels they can only really rely on their own biomass to replenish losses as I assume they cannot eat metal annd synthetic material to replace losses. Surely as well if they are feeding on themselves their must be a fair bit of energy lost in the process.

However all the Imperium ever seems to do is wait for the nids to come and besiege them on a vitally important planet, we hear very little about them contesting the bugs approach or trying to weaken them in advance. Am I right in thinking that Nids dont posess the abillity to travel at anywhere near the speeds of Imperial ships (not talking about generally just in the sense that they can't use the warp.)

Well for one thing, the Tyranids are constantly adapting - if the Imperium did that, then the Tyranids would adapt and figure out some other way to get resources. Maybe they'd skirt Ork space or something, the Imperium isn't about to defend them.

When nids attack, they disrupt communications and make it hard to get a warring out. A lot of the time they don't even realize that the nids are around till they make it to that important planet.

There have been cases where they form burn lines though. Destroying a few planets to starve or divert a fleet as it approaches.

Kill the big ones.

Coolyo294 wrote:Kill the big ones.

shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones?

Exterminatus everything in their path then after the fleet begins exhausting itself hit it with everything you have.

Capture the Swarmlord and throw him into the Eye of Terror. Just to see what happens.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Well for one thing, the Tyranids are constantly adapting - if the Imperium did that, then the Tyranids would adapt and figure out some other way to get resources. Maybe they'd skirt Ork space or something, the Imperium isn't about to defend them.

Hell we should try and drive the Hive fleets into Ork space either way the Imperium does itself a favour. Even with the amount of biomass it would be possible to consume the losses faced by the hive fleet in the process would be enormous. An Ork empire versus a Hive fleet would be one hell of a scrap, Especially once the word spreads and every ork in the segmentum comes running.

Belexar wrote:Capture the Swarmlord and throw him into the Eye of Terror. Just to see what happens.

Make another Swarmlord?


I'd just burn worlds before the Tyranids arrive, starve and weaken the beasties and obliterate them

We could take the worlds and push em... somewhere else

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Well for one thing, the Tyranids are constantly adapting - if the Imperium did that, then the Tyranids would adapt and figure out some other way to get resources. Maybe they'd skirt Ork space or something, the Imperium isn't about to defend them.

Hell we should try and drive the Hive fleets into Ork space either way the Imperium does itself a favour. Even with the amount of biomass it would be possible to consume the losses faced by the hive fleet in the process would be enormous. An Ork empire versus a Hive fleet would be one hell of a scrap, Especially once the word spreads and every ork in the segmentum comes running.

That seems like a good idea, until you realize that you would end up with more of both, not less. Fighting and dying is how orks reproduce. If you kill an ork, it will just make more orks unless you burn the body and all the spores. Eating orks would create more tyranids. If both sides were evenly matched, it would just create more and more of each, constantly escalating. The only way it would end would be if one side could quickly and decisively defeat the other.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Well for one thing, the Tyranids are constantly adapting - if the Imperium did that, then the Tyranids would adapt and figure out some other way to get resources. Maybe they'd skirt Ork space or something, the Imperium isn't about to defend them.

Hell we should try and drive the Hive fleets into Ork space either way the Imperium does itself a favour. Even with the amount of biomass it would be possible to consume the losses faced by the hive fleet in the process would be enormous. An Ork empire versus a Hive fleet would be one hell of a scrap, Especially once the word spreads and every ork in the segmentum comes running.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Empire_of_Octarius#.Tt70umMk67s

Have you read this? This is what happens when nids and orks meet

Also, best tactic? There really isn't one, you basically get one shot at everything. The fleet will adapt quickly to what every previous plan you had. Also the exterminatus of worlds isn't always the best option, you're exterminating a planet and everything on it, you cannot come back to it and expect to rebuild. Perhaps the best option is when a planet is lost, is to call an exterminatus WHILE the nids are on the surface, so the fleet is not only denied its resources, but the resources spent in invading the planet are also lost. But you'd have to get through the nid fleet, which is easier said than done.

Find a way of severing the synapse connection to the Hive Mind.

Or a psychic contagion that passes from mind to mind.

Brighter bug-light than the Astronomicon.

the Tau would rotate weapons and tactics in order keep the tyranids in flux. Eventually the tyranids exhausted their resources and the remaining ships fled.

The (Unofficial) Imperial Guard Guide Against the Xenos Known as Tyranids

1. Tyranids consume biomass. If you are losing a battle, make sure the Tyranids will have no biomass to consume. A series of incendiary mines should scorch away any trances of biomass from the nearby flora or organisms.

2. Genestealer Cults are to be purged immediately. Anyone with a bald head, long forehead, sharp teeth, sharp fingernails, purple robes, strange tattoos, additional limbs or ugly children should be incinerated.

3. As a famous General once quipped, "SHOOT THE BIG ONES!" The entirety of the quote is "SHOOT THE BIG ONES! SHOOT THEM! STOP FLEEING! COME BACK! AAAAAAAAAA-" Large Tyranids are usually, but not always, synapse creatures that psychically mind control small Tyranids. By eliminating them, you cut the small Tyranids off from their commanders and leave them confused and orderless.

4. Virus bombs are not acceptable. It is true that the initial wave of Tyranids will be almost certainly slaughtered by the virus. However, any survivors within the fleet, regardless of location or genetics, will gain immunity. In some rare cases the Tyranids even learn to replicate the virus and release it on the very forces that first used it against them.

5. Tyranids, like most savage animals, are mainly equipped for melee battles and not ranged ones. Thus, your force should focus on long ranged weapons and maneuverability. Fire on the Tyranids and never get close.

While imperial ships FTL is faster, it also can't be used to get very close to the hive fleet, as the warp shadow makes navigation/communication impossible. So you can't really hit an run the main ships without going through their surrounding blob, which probably outnumbers you. Typically you have to wait for them to get to you and then take them out somehow. So where would you rather entrench yourself, defenseless in open space where they can surround you on every side, or on a planet behind bunkers, minefields, and batteries? Even if you want to do a space battle you are going to do it in system so you can take advantage of the "terrain" (asteroid belts, gravity wells, known astronomical phenomena, etc.) Open space just invites a war of attrition, something you will lose. The only way you can hope to get close enough to hit anything important is if they are already in system and you have hardpoints/places to hide.

You CAN burn your worlds, and it is mentioned this IS being done, but it really doesn't help you that much. They made the trip between galaxies, they aren't going to starve before they get to you. The only time this would be appropriate is if you have a hard point you want the battle to take place at and want to prevent them from getting any stronger before they get there, so you burn every system between your fortifications and their fleet.

Likewise, it is mentioned that diverting the nids into ork systems has been done, but it is a case of trading a little pain now for a lot of pain later. Whoever wins is going to be a lot more dangerous than they were when they started.

Overall, the Imperials current strategy really isn't that bad, e.g. fight them on battlefields you have prepared to play to your strengths, attempt force them into Pyrrhic victories, and lure their leaders into striking range without exposing yourself. Imperial competence, astounding I know.

Holding the line isn't much of an option, with very few exceptions.

1. Massed artillery, heavy weapons fire. There would have to be enough to cover the battlefield in overlapping explosive ordnance. Not to mention having to be able to fire for effect for days straight.

2. Hardened positions offer regular troopers and vehicles over, such as fortress or prepared trenchlines. I've only read of one instance where this resulted in absolute victory (Imperial Guard Codex pg.23 "Cadian 9th decimates Hive Fleet Scarabus on the walls of Fort Carcassson without the loss of a single company."). Although it may slow down the overall advance of the tyranids, static fortifications don't seem to help much.

3. Massed Space Marine forces. But...if Macragge has taught us anything, even THAT isn't enough.


Bleeding the Hive Fleet dry via exterminatus seems like the only viable solution. It certainly is the easiest.

The best thing to do is to engage them in space, fight really hard and force the fleet to spend large quantities of energy. Then you retreat and exterminatus the planets you were defending. This leaves the fleet in a negative energy balance and the fleet basically starves to death. and/or its weak enough for your counter navel strike to destroy the fleet completely.

Here's what works best:
1.Fight them in space, this will cause them to lose a great deal of biomass, making the swarm weaker as a whole.
2..Kill the leaders, it may not stop the swarm, but it slows them down considerably.
(if you have enough resources and/or hold out long enough for reinforcements you can win)
and if that fails
3. Exterminates: Forces them to lose bio mass, if you cause enough damage to the fleet as a whole with the above steps you can stop the swarm as a whole, forcing them into hibernation.

Call in the Ultramarines.

Call their parents...

Frankenberry wrote:Bleeding the Hive Fleet dry via exterminatus seems like the only viable solution. It certainly is the easiest.

It's also the dumbest thing to do. While is denies resources to the Tyranids, it denies yourself a habitable planet. They are actually still rare even in 40k. Exterminating a planet should always be a last resort.

Combating Tyranids in space is hard to do if you're not on the defensive because of the Shadow in the Warp. It strands ships, fries navigators and astropaths brains, and in general makes it hard for you to escape quickly.

The best way, as already said, is to 'shoot the big ones'. Go for the syanpse creatures first and foremost. If you locate the dominatrix leading the ground forces, make it public enemy number 1. Destroy their control base, and the rest of their ground forces will be confused and make easy pickings. The problem is, it's very easy to do this in the tabletop game, but in the fluff, those synapse creatures will be surrounded by hundreds of thousands of smaller bugs, and synapse creatures aren't exactly in short supply.

Evacuate the entire IoM to TERRA the resulting concentration of forces will be to much for anything!

Isn't it obvious,have the Blood Angles call in their Necron buddies!

But no really, the only way i see the IoM coming out of the Tyranide have fleets alive would be to have the necrons kill them, After all you can't mutate to prevent your atoms from being striped, and downed 'crons -the ones that don't get back up- can't be eaten -and will probable just phase out get repaired and come back- and nids can't beat the crons in space and are unlikely to prevail on the ground.

NL_Cirrus wrote:Isn't it obvious,have the Blood Angles call in their Necron buddies!

But no really, the only way i see the IoM coming out of the Tyranide have fleets alive would be to have the necrons kill them, After all you can't mutate to prevent your atoms from being striped, and downed 'crons -the ones that don't get back up- can't be eaten -and will probable just phase out get repaired and come back- and nids can't beat the crons in space and are unlikely to prevail on the ground.

That may be so but the necrosis are heavily outnumbered. Even more so than the other races.

I heard promethium works quite well

Pray.

blood reaper wrote:

Belexar wrote:Capture the Swarmlord and throw him into the Eye of Terror. Just to see what happens.

Make another Swarmlord?


I'd just burn worlds before the Tyranids arrive, starve and weaken the beasties and obliterate them

You know, that's what Kryptman tried. He basically called an Exterminatus on half of Ultima Segmentum. Probably killed more humans on his own than the nids.

Guess what hapened to him? He was the first Lord Inquisitor to ever get fired .

Its the Imperium of Man, Killing innocent people is just a minor blight on the bigger picture. But anyways he did stop them....for now.....DUH DUH DUHHH!