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Brother Coa wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I checked lexicanum, because I'm a poor man with no money for the rulebooks and novels, the battleship detonated its cores in the heart of the fleet, so one of your points is moot

Index Astartes III said that ship exploded near the Hive Fleet.

Unfortunately, IA 3 is older than the current 'Nid Codex, which states the Dominus Astra detonated in the heart of the fleet. The 4th edition Codex also said this. So I think the more recent version takes precedent.

You mean the same Tyranid codex that say Leviathan is the last Hive Fleet?

There are multiple ways to interpret the word last. It can also mean most recent, which given the statement earlier in the Codex which says that there are more fleets only just becoming known, is probably the more accurate interpretation.

"Leviathan, the last and latest five fleet to enter the galaxy..."

Sounds like last to me.

The actual quote is "Last and greatest", which still (coupled with other mentions of Hive Fleets just showing up now) allows for the 'most recent' interpretation.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Well for one thing, the Tyranids are constantly adapting - if the Imperium did that, then the Tyranids would adapt and figure out some other way to get resources. Maybe they'd skirt Ork space or something, the Imperium isn't about to defend them.

Hell we should try and drive the Hive fleets into Ork space either way the Imperium does itself a favour. Even with the amount of biomass it would be possible to consume the losses faced by the hive fleet in the process would be enormous. An Ork empire versus a Hive fleet would be one hell of a scrap, Especially once the word spreads and every ork in the segmentum comes running.

Might end up with hybrids or worse alliances !!!!!

The current Tyranids Codex states on page 31 in the second paragraph of the "Galactic Feeding Grounds" entry "Nor is it only Leviathan that is assailing the galaxy. New Hive Fleets are even now beginning to emerge from their cold sleep through the inter-galactic void AND the surviving remnants of defeated Hive Fleets continue to invade isolated worlds."

Or to put it another way, Hive Fleet Leviathan may be the biggest and most recent, but it sure as hell wont be the last.

Fat_Little_Ripper wrote:The current Tyranids Codex states on page 31 in the second paragraph of the "Galactic Feeding Grounds" entry "Nor is it only Leviathan that is assailing the galaxy. New Hive Fleets are even now beginning to emerge from their cold sleep through the inter-galactic void AND the surviving remnants of defeated Hive Fleets continue to invade isolated worlds."

Or to put it another way, Hive Fleet Leviathan may be the biggest and most recent, but it sure as hell wont be the last.

Maybe the quote was referring to Leviathan to be the last of the big ones?
Other being small in comparison to these three?
Seems logical to me that the Leviathan would be the last Large Tyranid fleet and the other ones would be just minor ones like Gorgon.

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I checked lexicanum, because I'm a poor man with no money for the rulebooks and novels, the battleship detonated its cores in the heart of the fleet, so one of your points is moot

Index Astartes III said that ship exploded near the Hive Fleet.

Unfortunately, IA 3 is older than the current 'Nid Codex, which states the Dominus Astra detonated in the heart of the fleet. The 4th edition Codex also said this. So I think the more recent version takes precedent.

And yet, Behemoth isn't gone. The fact that it was the hive fleet that took part in the Medusa Campaign, long after the Battle for Macragge, proves this. There's recent fluff that says that 'several tendrils of Behemoth were defeated'. While they defeated the fleet directly threatening Macragge, it wasn't all of Behemoth.

The fact that the current codex states that more hive fleets are arriving even after Leviathan means, well, Leviathan isn't the last. Yes, they're minor hive fleets, but that fits with their behaviour. Minor hive fleets hit, then a major hive fleet, then minor fleets, then a major fleet. The fact that they haven't stropped Leviathan before the next wave of minor fleets shows that either the defense against the Tyranids is getting worse or their tactics are getting better.

-Loki- wrote:

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I checked lexicanum, because I'm a poor man with no money for the rulebooks and novels, the battleship detonated its cores in the heart of the fleet, so one of your points is moot

Index Astartes III said that ship exploded near the Hive Fleet.

Unfortunately, IA 3 is older than the current 'Nid Codex, which states the Dominus Astra detonated in the heart of the fleet. The 4th edition Codex also said this. So I think the more recent version takes precedent.

And yet, Behemoth isn't gone. The fact that it was the hive fleet that took part in the Medusa Campaign, long after the Battle for Macragge, proves this. There's recent fluff that says that 'several tendrils of Behemoth were defeated'. While they defeated the fleet directly threatening Macragge, it wasn't all of Behemoth.

The fact that the current codex states that more hive fleets are arriving even after Leviathan means, well, Leviathan isn't the last. Yes, they're minor hive fleets, but that fits with their behaviour. Minor hive fleets hit, then a major hive fleet, then minor fleets, then a major fleet. The fact that they haven't stropped Leviathan before the next wave of minor fleets shows that either the defense against the Tyranids is getting worse or their tactics are getting better.

Oh I agree entirely. Behemoth's kind of a sticky issue, since some fluff seems to indicate all of it was destroyed, and some of it states that (like Kraken) parts of it survived. The Tyranid Codex only states that the fleet was decimated by the act of the Dominus Astra, rather than entirely wiped out. It's not hard to believe pieces of it broke off after its defeat at Macragge.

Brother Coa wrote:"Leviathan, the last and latest five fleet to enter the galaxy..."

Sounds like last to me.

This is also contradicted earlier in the codex where it says the 3 Hive Fleets are just a part of a far greater and more terrifying force.

GW is fun like that.

Psienesis wrote:

But the explosion still has a certain radius. The tyranids could just simply choose to spread out so much that even in a warp engine detonation, it won't take out much of their hive fleet.

Then you can destroy them through conventional means, because this will render the Tyranid's greatest weapon (overwhelming numbers) impotent. The swarm is too spread out to easily support its members, and allows the Astartes to more easily clear paths to the Synapse Creatures and Norn Queen, thus spelling doom to the entire hive.

Context my friend

I was just poking for holes in the argument.

I've always wondered why the Hive Mind just doesn't create a virus species and drop them on world after world with spores. It'd probably be able to adapt to any cure as well. Silly Hive Mind.

Harriticus wrote:I've always wondered why the Hive Mind just doesn't create a virus species and drop them on world after world with spores. It'd probably be able to adapt to any cure as well. Silly Hive Mind.

As much as they consume and adapt, the Tyranids would likely be able to do this, except for the fact that they would have to little of a reason to fight. Nearly everything would be dead or dying when they made planet-fall, and in general would just be too powerful.

Pesonally, I'm happy with where the Tyranids are at in the fluff (barring a few inconsistencies, plot armor, etc.) If only they had a better Codex and their Second Wave...

simple, turn off the night light that the IoM call the astronomican, but if the golden throne is failing then chances are next edition it wont even need to be turned off...
nothing says "Dinner is Served" to a tyranid quite like a giant pulsing beacon in the warp that can be picked up from the opposite end of the universe

How effective against nids would it be to get some radical inquisitor to summon some daemons on them? Or would that just lead to a whole new set of problems...

Now that is a very good question. The outcome might end up being some kind of Daemonicly influenced Tyranids.

I recall the Iron Warriors infecting a hive ship with the obliterator virus, severing its link to the hive mind and making it usable by marines. Perhaps the imperium could also go this route. (as guerilla-type strikes in conjunction with a more conventional strategy, as it would likely take some time for the virus to take hold)

Being a supreme psychic being I think the Hive Mind could keep chaos from corrupting the Nids. if anything the daemons might just completely dissipate due to the hive mind cutting them off from the warp.

Doesn't shadow in the warp prevent daemonic incursions?

Yes, no, maybe?


The Shadow is kinda like jamming radio channels with tons of white noise. it doesn't make it impossable, just horrendously difficult.

I would think that it would be nearly impossable to create a new incursion with the shadow in the warp around, but an existing incursion would probably still function(But the daemons would be a heck of a lot more unstable and the Hive Mind might just close the warp rift with its own power)

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Doesn't shadow in the warp prevent daemonic incursions?

Hmm.. this brings up a new thing, if shadow in the warp prevents daemon incursions, then the chaos gods would be really worried about tyranids, so even the chaos gods themselves would want to send daemons at nids, not even an inquistor

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, no, maybe?


The Shadow is kinda like jamming radio channels with tons of white noise. it doesn't make it impossable, just horrendously difficult.

I would think that it would be nearly impossable to create a new incursion with the shadow in the warp around, but an existing incursion would probably still function(But the daemons would be a heck of a lot more unstable and the Hive Mind might just close the warp rift with its own power)

So if the warp rift is big enough, daemons can pour out

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, no, maybe?


The Shadow is kinda like jamming radio channels with tons of white noise. it doesn't make it impossable, just horrendously difficult.

I would think that it would be nearly impossable to create a new incursion with the shadow in the warp around, but an existing incursion would probably still function(But the daemons would be a heck of a lot more unstable and the Hive Mind might just close the warp rift with its own power)

So if the warp rift is big enough, daemons can pour out

They can pour out a rift of any size, its just more difficult for them to do it and they have more trouble maintaining their physical forms. So they are easier to "kill"

Remulus wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Doesn't shadow in the warp prevent daemonic incursions?

Hmm.. this brings up a new thing, if shadow in the warp prevents daemon incursions, then the chaos gods would be really worried about tyranids, so even the chaos gods themselves would want to send daemons at nids, not even an inquistor

The chaos gods aren't actually too fussed with the mundane world

As far as the nids go the imperium seems to be the most successful when they meet them in space.

EmilCrane wrote:

Remulus wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Doesn't shadow in the warp prevent daemonic incursions?

Hmm.. this brings up a new thing, if shadow in the warp prevents daemon incursions, then the chaos gods would be really worried about tyranids, so even the chaos gods themselves would want to send daemons at nids, not even an inquistor

The chaos gods aren't actually too fussed with the mundane world

As far as the nids go the imperium seems to be the most successful when they meet them in space.

But people dying in the material world would affect them. I mean if there's no one left to worship them, wouldn't they weaken?

daemonic incursion =/= chaos corruption

Belexar wrote:Capture the Swarmlord and throw him into the Eye of Terror. Just to see what happens.

Brilliant! Simply Brilliant!

Burrow deep to the core of planets in the path of hive fleets and set of enough explosives to destroy world AFTER the nids start invading, they lose all resources + any bioships caught in the blast radius of the exploding planet. Imperium is the only race really able to do this and not suffer too much because they have over a million worlds in there fold.

Cruzer_92 wrote:Burrow deep to the core of planets in the path of hive fleets and set of enough explosives to destroy world AFTER the nids start invading, they lose all resources + any bioships caught in the blast radius of the exploding planet. Imperium is the only race really able to do this and not suffer too much because they have over a million worlds in there fold.

That's called an exterminatus