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I was watching a game a few minutes ago and a kid dropped from a DP in front of a enemy devastator squad. Now he deployed 2 inches to the rear of the DP so the models were in partial sight of the squad... Now here is where trickery comes into play. Since he got out on one side of the drop pod he said the doors on the other sides were closed, this meant that the devastator squad had no LoS and could not attack his 5 man squad.... Not even attack and them getting a cover save. Meaning can not attack them at all because they could not see through the vehicle.

His reasoning... The rules say 2 inches away from the hull he has to disembark. He was able to fit all his models in that 2 inch span w.o giving the dev squad a LoS arc. He said that the pod did not have to open the other doors for his squad to disembark in order for the 2 inch rule. So they could not shoot them. And the vehicle counts as open topped so they could hop out of the top?

I thought it was kinda a cheap move but it kinda makes sense and reasonable, but it does say all hatches are blown bt there is no definition or clear rule that says the doors are down... What do you guys think?

Codex: Space Marines page 69 says, "once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown." Not "some of the hatches," "the hatches." This implies all of the hatches. Once all of the doors are down, use true line of sight to draw an arc of fire to the squad. They can claim cover behind the pod but it would take some significant shenanigans to claim complete line of sight block.

Regarding open-topped: The hatches come down no matter what. Regardless of if he comes out of the top of the model or not, he must be within two inches of the hull of the pod.

The official way to deply a drop pod is with the doors down on the ground, though the doors do not count for model. The center is open, and you can see through it.

You can glue the doors shut, it's easier, but you have to count it as if they were open.

So no, that doesn't work.

Actually the rules do not cover this situation at all. There is no "official way to deply a drop pod"

With the current application of TLOS if a model can see another model's body it can shoot at it, if it cant then it cant shoot at it.

There are no rules that tell you that you have to oped the doors of the drop pod to be able to deploy within 2 inches of the hull.

It is commonly played one of three ways:
1) You keep all of the doors closed (because they are glued in place) and the Storm bolter can not shoot, but there is no LoS through the pod because the doors are closed.
2) You keep all of the doors closed (because they are glued in place) but you assume they are open and can draw LoS through the Pod, being generous about enemies being able to because you can not actually see the unit on the other side because the doors.
3)You open all the doors upon landing and use TLOS as normal.

So... its a thin line basically...

Yes, On the side of fairness, and sportsmanship you should probably follow one of the three ways I have outlined above, with 3 being the most sporting way to handle it, if possible.

I prefer option 4: Leave the doors off the model in the first place because they contribute nothing but problems.

Here's the thing...were the doors up or were they down? If they were up then they are up and block line of sight. If they are down then they are down and do not. No rules say which way he has to deploy it but he can't change it once they are deployed. And if they are down he can't say "well they are actually up". Also nothing says they have to be down for him to get out. Only thing is fluff which doesn't count in rules.

His were up.

usmcmidn wrote:His were up.

All of them?

usmcmidn wrote:Since he got out on one side of the drop pod he said the doors on the other sides were closed

The shady part would be opening half of them, to me.

The others have the rules down, though.

Yes, he opened half and disembarked his Marines out 2 inches from the hull of the DP where those doors were... The others he left closed.

Basically it won him the game, because no other units could shoot at the command squad which was fully decked out, except the scouts who inflicted 1 casualty but his feel no pain rule negated that with the save, he then proceed to his next turn where he moved the command squad, put the doors down shot his missile launcher from the DP at the scouts took out 3 of them the scouts ran away, he moved the command squad and charged some 7 man terminator squad which took 2 casualties from a melta and plasma pistol shot and decimated them with power weapons, swept into a scout squad which was running.

Opponents next turn he regrouped and shot the scouts at them did nothing again, rapid fired a full tactical squad took out 2 of them. His attention had to be focused on other things and could not focus all his fire power on the CS.

Then CS shot and charged 5 man scout squad that remained took out 4 killed the last in CC then swept into the tactical squad where by that time the tactical squad was down to half due to his other units shooting at it.

Next opponents turn tactical squad shot and charged the CS and lost CC ran away his CS was reduced to 1 man... game ended.

He swept away quite a few models due to squads not being able to shoot that CS when it came in.

If he can do it very good tactic but also very cheap however it is a war game where you going to want to win... But it basically won him the game or greatly helped.

usmcmidn wrote:Then CS shot and charged 5 man scout squad that remained took out 4 killed the last in CC then swept into the tactical squad where by that time the tactical squad was down to half due to his other units shooting at it.

This confuses me, and reminds me a bit of a previous edition of the rules and not 5th.

usmcmidn wrote:Yes, he opened half and disembarked his Marines out 2 inches from the hull of the DP where those doors were... The others he left closed.

That's fine if a bit unconventional

usmcmidn wrote: he then proceed to his next turn where he moved the command squad, put the doors down shot his missile launcher from the DP at the scouts took out 3 of them the scouts ran away,

That is illegal. He cannot change his model in the middle of the game. You can model the doors up or down but you can't change it mid game.

1) It sounds like there were a few rules confusions to begin with.


2) The raising/lowering the doors of a drop pod in order to control TLOS to your advantage is not a "sporting" move. It is dubious weather it is legal or not, But if you were to pull something like that in a Tournament, or in a friendly game against a stranger, they would not be happy, and probably not allow it.

Drop Pod doors are a ver difficult issue, but in General, re posing your model during the game for TLOS advantages is just not cool.

He is not allowed to change the modelling of the DP once it hits the table. So, if he claimed that only some doors were open and the others were closed that's how he has to keep it. So, even if you accept that some doors can be open while others are closed he still cheated by changing his model during the game.

Ahh see it was sketchy to me too. Especially after he basically cleared the board using it. In the rule book it does say it is immobile so... We should of picked up on it. It was my friend who got owned (an experienced player he said it was sketchy especially the rule book is very gray with it).

My college has this 40k gaming night for students and w.e wants to join in and thats where it happened. Some guys thought it was an amazing tactic but others thought it was sketchy.

But just to recap... He can choose to not put all the doors down to block LoS? But afterward he can not drop them.

Looking back at it, its a pretty good tactic whether cheap or not I think it can easily be abused... I hope the next rule book they clearly define it.

Wouldn't all the doors have to open because of the storm bolters arc of fire?
Assuming that he had to put down at least one hatch to deploy his troops.

Waghbif wrote:Wouldn't all the doors have to open because of the storm bolters arc of fire?
Assuming that he had to put down at least one hatch to deploy his troops.

Well I just thought of this... It was not "cheating" because a model never blocks its own line of sight, therefor it could shoot its cannon/missile launcher. On Pg 58-60 in the rule book it explains the vehicle's hull blocks LoS but nothing about doors, again having to rly interrupt the rules. Therefor extremely cheap it is do able. It is not a clear rule and it is worded for fluff reasons in the codex as my buddy (who got killed because of it) even said, it could mean stuck as he is a former sailor breach could mean a lot of things. He also pointed out there are pictures in the SM codex with DPs with only a couple doors open and not all of them.

And it does say the vehicle is open topped, nothing mentions it is open topped because of the doors in the codex. This is what bothers me the most. If someone glued the doors shut and has the its open topped rule I can get out w.e i want bit... He could. Again no where in the codex says it is open topped because of the doors being fully down. I really wish GW would word things better,.

As much as I do not want to admit it I think its legit but very cheap. Honestly I do not think I would do it though. It would lead to arguments like it did tonight. It lasted a good half hour. It is cheesy and cheap but for gamers sake id say puck it and have em all down anyway and hide to get that 4+ save haha

The doors count as part of the hull when they are closed so they would block LoS.
As I said before, even if you do accept that you can open some of the doors without opening them all it is still illegal to change the positioning of the doors after you have declared them open/shut. So the Marine player still did not play the game by the rules. This same rule prevents you from using say 2 Wraithlords (1 standing the other being prone) as the same figure. You can not swap out one for the other depending on your whim and the advantage(s) to be gained. Once you declare a door opened or closed that's it for the model.

usmcmidn wrote:But just to recap... He can choose to not put all the doors down to block LoS? But afterward he can not drop them.

How you choose to pose your models is entirely up to you. So yes, you can choose to model your drop pods with doors up, down, or any combination of the two. There is no rule that requires them to be in the open position, any more than there is requiring a rhino or Land Raider to have their doors open for troops to get out.

However, the only rules that allow you to modify a miniature during the game are the vehicle shooting rules, which allow you to turn the vehicle's weapons. No permission is given to alter a model in any other way.

Waghbif wrote:Wouldn't all the doors have to open because of the storm bolters arc of fire?

If the doors are up, they would block the storm bolter's LOS. There is no rule requiring them to be open, though.

usmcmidn wrote:Well I just thought of this... It was not "cheating" because a model never blocks its own line of sight, therefor it could shoot its cannon/missile launcher.

This is not actually true. See the rulebook FAQ for clarification on this, where they point out that, for example, a Razorback's pintle storm bolter will block LOS from the turret. Model's most certainly do block their own LOS.

Ah ok and he did not model the doors closed he modeled the doors to be free moving and could prop them up or down pending what he wanted to do.

Again thats fine. He just can't change it mid game because there is no rule saying he can. It would be like if I modelled a special character perched on a rock for dramatic effect but didn't glue him to the rock. Then half way through they game said "he stepped down" and took the rock away so he can get out of LOS.

How is he sweeping away models? Marines can't be swept

As I was told the drop pod doors open and can't not stay closed now if you are good you can make it so you still can't be seen that is legal but the doors must be open.

cgage00 wrote:As I was told the drop pod doors open and can't not stay closed now if you are good you can make it so you still can't be seen that is legal but the doors must be open.

Where most people agree to play that way, as it's obviously the way it was intended, there is actually no RAW rule supporting that.

I disagree I think when the codex says "whenthey drop pod lands the hataches are blown" that means oppon landing they open automatically. Basically this guy took a story that sounds plausable about what could happen rather than what the book says happen. now a drop pod can give you a cover save

Pony_law wrote:I disagree I think when the codex says "whenthey drop pod lands the hataches are blown" that means oppon landing they open automatically. Basically this guy took a story that sounds plausable about what could happen rather than what the book says happen. now a drop pod can give you a cover save

Your quoting fluff. The drop pod doesn't "land". It's placed on the board according to deep strike rules (amended by the special drop pod rules). As i said, it's obviously supposed to have it's doors open but RAW doesn't say it does only fluff.

VoxDei wrote:

cgage00 wrote:As I was told the drop pod doors open and can't not stay closed now if you are good you can make it so you still can't be seen that is legal but the doors must be open.

Where most people agree to play that way, as it's obviously the way it was intended, there is actually no RAW rule supporting that.

They did do an FAQ saying the doors come down and can't be up. Trust me I was going to write a Los block army using pods.

VoxDei wrote:

Pony_law wrote:I disagree I think when the codex says "whenthey drop pod lands the hataches are blown" that means oppon landing they open automatically. Basically this guy took a story that sounds plausable about what could happen rather than what the book says happen. now a drop pod can give you a cover save

Your quoting fluff. The drop pod doesn't "land". It's placed on the board according to deep strike rules (amended by the special drop pod rules). As i said, it's obviously supposed to have it's doors open but RAW doesn't say it does only fluff.

He's NOT quoting "fluff". "the hatches are blown" is under TRANSPORT in the Drop Pod entry on page 69, which is a RULE.

cgage00 wrote:

They did do an FAQ saying the doors come down and can't be up. Trust me I was going to write a Los block army using pods.

Do you know which one? It's not in the SM one that I could find.