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VoxDei wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

They did do an FAQ saying the doors come down and can't be up. Trust me I was going to write a Los block army using pods.

Do you know which one? It's not in the SM one that I could find.

It's not in any FAQ that I can find either.

I just read this which clearly says that you can leave the doors up to block LoS... It is a space wolves thing but reading deeper into the article it clearly is talking about DPs in general and not jsut the space pups DP...

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2009/06/drpo-pod-faq.html

"Concerning the space marine drop pod rules"

"Do they block LOS when they land, especially if you keep some petal doors up and some down?

The [b]new Games Workshop drop pod model will be used for this. Use true line of sight for targeting purposes once the drop pod has descended.

It is perfectly reasonable to keep some of the petal doors up as the occupants receive up to date information on the situation on the ground as they descend, thus enabling them to deploy to their maximum advantage.

Please note that if the petals are up or down, this must be represented on the model.

If the petals are up, the drop pod is still open topped and the drop pod’s weapon cannot shoot as the petals block line of sight from the weapon. If you are using home drop pod, this last point still applies."

I need to book mark that article.

but are those real FAQ?

That is not an official FAQ, it's just a fan made one.

But, the information they're giving is valid. Plenty of people will call you cheesy for doing this. And, others will call this modeling for advantage (they're kinda right).

The only FAQ I can find that addresses this (and it's not legal per ymdc tenets) is INAT.

Someone earlier said there were official FAQ for the drop pod. Can anyone find it?

INAT has it under DP and they say no. But is that official?

The DP article I posted was explained by simon tull (He hosts Carnage) but is this official? ? ?

What one wins this gray battle? ? ? Since both are not very official then it still is up to interpretation.

Is there any way to do a poll on this? Can do, can't do type deal?

cgage00 wrote:They did do an FAQ saying the doors come down and can't be up. Trust me I was going to write a Los block army using pods.

This is not present in any of the current FAQs.

gruebot wrote:He's NOT quoting "fluff". "the hatches are blown" is under TRANSPORT in the Drop Pod entry on page 69, which is a RULE.

It's fluff. There are no rules that define what effect 'blowing the hatches' has in game terms... it is therefore not a game term. Unless you're suggesting that Drop Pods actually have to be fitted with small explosive charges that blow the doors open when you place it on the table?

Again, the fact that fluffwise the doors are opened on landing has no bearing on the rules, since the rules don't require it. Just as they don't require you to open the doors of your rhino to disembark the unit inside, and your Landspeeders don't actually have to fly over terrain.

Poll is up guys. I am not going to vote. I just want a clearer view of who supports it and who does not.

usmcmidn wrote:The DP article I posted was explained by simon tull (He hosts Carnage) but is this official? ? ?

No. The 'official' FAQs are in the Errats and FAQ Articles section on the GW website.

I am getting curious of those voters who plays SM and used Drop Pods? ? ?

Well I voted "Yes but the inside weapon of the DP can not shoot through the doors"

I play Blood Angels, but never ever use Drop pods.

Well I should not say never, I use drop pods in about 1% of the games I play

I voted yes, but can't shoot. I don't play SM/variants.

I used a DP list in a recented GT tournament, it a really dick move to stated that only so many doors are open and the rest are close just to benefit youself. I just don't understand the BS about this rule. once there landed all of there doors are open and doesn't cause a LOS blockage.

I play a DP list often, and have not voted.

No where I have played, at the FLGS or a tournament has someone tried to pull this pathic move. If they did, every TO I know would shout them down.

Everywhere I have seen played:
The doors count for nothing. They don't block line of sight. They are not part of the hull so other models can be placed on them.

I play SM.
When the DP is deployed, after any scatter, the doors are opened. If they lay flat on the table that's fine. If there is terrain in the way, I open them as far as they will go. If there are friendly or enemy models where the opened doors would go, the models are picked up, the doors opened, and the models replaced.
The opened doors count for nothing. They are not part of the DP hull, they are not a friendly or enemy model, they are not terrain.
YMMV but that's the way I play it.
To leave one or more door closed for a turn and say they block LOS, and then on a subsequent turn say you can open them and have LOS is just plain wrong.

Admitting it is a cheap move... i understand that the game is a war game. Tactics are tactics... I think I would let an op do it playing against me. I mean yeh its sketchy but I wouldn't make a big deal about it.

I think it is gray but id let them do it, do I feel it is wrong... MAYBE. If they are doing it for tactics... I could respect, for it is a war game where you need tactics. But if they have a history of being a cheesy player and will spread the cheese on every rule out there (me being 1mm away from the 6 inch charge from and not allowing me in stupid gak like that) then it turns a fun stragety game into omzzg all I want to do is play cheesy.

Did that make sense?

All doors open? Fine.
All doors closed? Fine.
Some open, some closed? Still fine.
Repositioning doors on another turn? I don't think so.

when the drop pod lands all hatches are blown off. you cannot leave the doors closed. it's not grey, it's written in the rules, I'd love to hear how this person would justify what he did when confronted with that language. The rules also say that the drop dop is no longer a sealed environment after it lands further suggesting all the doors open. It sounds much more like he took advantage on an inexperienced player. It's not tactics it's cheating

Pony_law wrote:when the drop pod lands all hatches are blown off. you cannot leave the doors closed. it's not grey, it's written in the rules,

No, that's fluff. Otherwise, I expect you to fill your Drop Pod with explosives so that the hatches are indeed blown off.

Pony_law wrote: when the drop pod lands all hatches are blown off.

It doesn't say 'blown off'... it says the hatches are blown. Meaning that they are opened quickly. And it's a piece of fluff, as is the part about the pod being a sealed environment. Actually having the doors open on the model is no more required by the rules than having to open the assault ramp on a land raider in order to disembark and assault, or having your power weapons actually wreathed in electrical discharge, or your Wraithlord actually posessed by the soul of a long-dead space elf warrior.

It'snot fluff its under the section call transport. as is the mention of it not being a seal environment. it is not in the fluff at the top of the page it is part of the rules description of the vehicle

Anyone who tries to pull any of the bs detailed in this thread will quickly be added to my ignore/never play list.

i love it when TFGs clearly identify themselves...

Happyjew wrote:All doors open? Fine.
All doors closed? Fine.
Some open, some closed? Still fine.
Repositioning doors on another turn? I don't think so.

Is this the general view?

I ask, because it seems like a huge pain to find space for all the doors to lie flat in a Drop Pod army (10+ pods), not to mention having to let models walk all over your painted model...

I feel like I'd rather have them closed...

I've ruled for all our tournaments that drop pod doors are considered open once they hit the table. If they can't open because of terrain, or they are glued shut, that's fine, but you draw los as if they were open.

Why do people keep trying to claim this is right? lol

All hatches must be dropped when it lands unless glued in place.

What happens to the squad that has to immediately disembark when the doors are closed..?

Pony_law wrote:It'snot fluff its under the section call transport. as is the mention of it not being a seal environment. it is not in the fluff at the top of the page it is part of the rules description of the vehicle

Since you're claiming it's rules..

What does it mean, rules wise, to be a sealed environment? Can you show me where "blown open" is talked about as far as rules go?

So it's illegal to model a drop pod with the doors glued shut?

The whole problem with the argument is this, do the doors have to come down? The answer is no they do not.

Why don't they have to come down? It's the same principle as disembarking from a rhino. Do you need to physically be able to open the back or side hatches? No, this is an extraneous affectation. Which carries over perfectly to a drop pod IMHO. Do the doors have to open to allow the models to disembark? Nope, it counts as an immobile open top vehicle as soon as it enters play, and the hatches have no affect on the game whatsoever. Let me ask another question about this, if the doors remain up, do they block LOS to models behind it, or the weapon mounted on it? They do not. Doors on vehicles have no rules associated with them, as such they are simply an extra piece that doesn't interfere with the game one way or another. When shooting at a droppod that puts the hatches out, do you measure line of sight to them? No, you measure to the actual hull of the vehicle.

It's all a matter of thinking about it from the point of the doorways are no different than the doors of a Land Raider, Razorback, Falcon, what have you. The hatches themselves have no bearing on the game, so don't let them interfere.

the plan meaning of the language describing what happens in game terms when the pod lands say the hatches are blown, which means open period, hatches = doors they are one in the same. The quote about no sealed environmentis just further context to let you know what they are talking about ie the interior of the pod is exposed to the rest of the environment ie the hatches are down.

You can modle it however you want, of course the model is designed to be functioning ie the hatches swing down and will stay up if you took time to assemble it correctly.

Pony_law wrote:the plan meaning of the language describing what happens in game terms when the pod lands say the hatches are blown, which means open period, hatches = doors they are one in the same. The quote about no sealed environmentis just further context to let you know what they are talking about ie the interior of the pod is exposed to the rest of the environment ie the hatches are down.

So... fluff. Thanks for clarifying.

You can modle it however you want, of course the model is designed to be functioning ie the hatches swing down and will stay up if you took time to assemble it correctly.

If the doors are not required to be modeled in the down position, then there is no rule requiring such - similar to Rhino doors/hatches, Chimera doors/hatches, etc.

if someone ever tried to pull that bs with me I'd pull out my hard cover rule book raise it as high above the tabled and let it drop and crush their drop pod... armour 10 or 12 couldn't stop that... and crush that lil half pound of plastic into rubble and then that can block my line of site all day long

Pony_law wrote:It'snot fluff its under the section call transport. as is the mention of it not being a seal environment. it is not in the fluff at the top of the page it is part of the rules description of the vehicle

Take a look through any of GW's codexes, and you will find a fairly large amount o flfuff mixed in with the actual rules. It's just how GW write their books... they generally give a bit of a fluff explanation of what's going on, and then list the actual rule that applies as a result.

'The hatches are blown' is not something that has a specified in-game effect. Nor is being (or not being) a sealed environment something that the rules consider. They are fluff descriptions of what is happening wehn the pod lands, and enforcing them as rules would be no less ridiculous than insisting that models should actually run across the board.

RiTides wrote:

Happyjew wrote:All doors open? Fine.
All doors closed? Fine.
Some open, some closed? Still fine.
Repositioning doors on another turn? I don't think so.

Is this the general view?

From my experience, yes, most players don't much care whether the doors are up or down, so long as you don't try to move them later.

Whether or not the interior weapon can shoot when the doors are modelled closed is a little more variable, though. I personally go with no... You need actual LOS from the weapon.

Pony_law wrote:the plan meaning of the language describing what happens in game terms when the pod lands say the hatches are blown, which means open period,

The doors of a rhino open when the troops disembark as well. As does the assault ramp of a Land Raider. And yet nobody insists that you actually do so with the physical model, or that they must stay open afterwards. Why? Because the rules don't tell us to do so.

Try to find a single rule that defines that 'the hatches are blown' means that the pod must be deployed with the doors open.

You won't find one.