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Which army's standard service rifle is the best in fluff? Go go go go go.

In what terms and role? The shuriken catapult and pulse rifle could be considered decent all round. The bolter is best out of those for shock troops though.

Pulse Rifle I'd say. As fast to fire as any other rifle in the list, lightweight, powerful and good at penetrating armour too.

Having said that, the Bolter fluff wise is so nasty on impact that it actually does more damage in Deathwatch. from a fluff perspective, the Gauss flayer was also mean fluff wise (at least before retcon; don;t know about after). I used to flay the target alive, reducing them to atoms via magnetic fields. Quite a horrific way to die.

Pulse rifle, probably, but I voted splinter rifle, because it ignores toughness entirely.

Also, as n0t-u said, they all have slightly different roles, so it is also circumstantial.

The Lasgun. It's powerful, durable, easy to use, easy to make, and can be recharged anywhere there is sunlight.

A basic gun that can stop tanks and reduce an enemy into individual molecules? How is this even a competition? I don't even play Necrons, and I know their basic weapon beats out the other guys. Tau are a close second with the enhanced strength of the blast. Splinter cannons could be a close competition as well, because they work well against monsters. But the weapon, fluff and gameplay, that works against all targets is the flayer.

I had actually forgotten the gauss flayer, that wins hands down.

Shoota = Unlimited Ammo
If you throw enough bullets into something, it'll kill it

Gauss Flayer: "Get Over Here!" on a subatomic level

The shoota. If it wasn't for the fact that Orks don't bother to aim in the first place, it'd be the nastiest standard weapon in the galaxy, even more than gauss flayers.

Keep in mind as nasty as it is, the gauss flayer still doesn't have a better chance (at least, not much better) to kill the average human than, say, a boltgun does.

The shoota however has a much better rate of fire than either of them while doing similarly respectable damage.

Melissia wrote:The shoota. If it wasn't for the fact that Orks don't bother to aim in the first place, it'd be the nastiest standard weapon in the galaxy, even more than gauss flayers.

Keep in mind as nasty as it is, the gauss flayer still doesn't have a better chance (at least, not much better) to kill the average human than, say, a boltgun does.

The shoota however has a much better rate of fire than either of them while doing similarly respectable damage.

True, but it won't take down a tank!

Castiel wrote:

Melissia wrote:The shoota. If it wasn't for the fact that Orks don't bother to aim in the first place, it'd be the nastiest standard weapon in the galaxy, even more than gauss flayers.

Keep in mind as nasty as it is, the gauss flayer still doesn't have a better chance (at least, not much better) to kill the average human than, say, a boltgun does.

The shoota however has a much better rate of fire than either of them while doing similarly respectable damage.

True, but it won't take down a tank!

Then Big shoota?? (but that's not a basic weapon)

Well for Fluff I go with the Bolter it's a frickin machine-gun rocket launcher!!!!

Coolyo294 wrote:The Lasgun. It's powerful, durable, easy to use, easy to make, and can be recharged anywhere there is sunlight.

Or even direct heat, such as a fire. It's also easy to clean & maintain.

I like the lasgun myself.

Castiel wrote:True, but it won't take down a tank!

Sure it will if you hit the tank in a weak spot. Most in-fluff depictions of shootas have them be explosive shells which are very much capable of hurting light vehicles or damaging tanks on weak armor, just as bolters can.

Melissia wrote:The shoota. If it wasn't for the fact that Orks don't bother to aim in the first place, it'd be the nastiest standard weapon in the galaxy, even more than gauss flayers.

Keep in mind as nasty as it is, the gauss flayer still doesn't have a better chance (at least, not much better) to kill the average human than, say, a boltgun does.

The shoota however has a much better rate of fire than either of them while doing similarly respectable damage.

Where do you get the info that the Gauss Flayer doesn't have a better chance to kill a Human than a Boltgun?


Gauss Flayer, hands down.

Diassembling things on a Molecular layer, including Land Raiders, is just impossible to beat.

Sasori wrote:Where do you get the info that the Gauss Flayer doesn't have a better chance to kill a Human than a Boltgun?

Because they've never been depicted as such.

A boltgun hitting a human in the chest is practically a guaranteed kill (even if it misses all vital organs!), you realize?

Melissia wrote:

Sasori wrote:Where do you get the info that the Gauss Flayer doesn't have a better chance to kill a Human than a Boltgun?

Because they've never been depicted as such.

A boltgun hitting a human in the chest is practically a guaranteed kill (even if it misses all vital organs!), you realize?

Yes, I do realize. I guess it's a completely moot point in the end. If both hit, they are going to kill a Human.

Regardless, The Gauss Flayer can destroy a Land Raider, so it wins even if it can't put out the volume of fire a shoota can.

Sasori wrote:Regardless, The Gauss Flayer can destroy a Land Raider, so it wins even if it can't put out the volume of fire a shoota can.

Unless of course you're not facing a land raider, but instead a horde of Orks/Tyranids/Humans.

Land Raiders are rare, most living beings in 40k haven't ever heard of them more likely than not, nevermind seen one.

Melissia wrote:

Sasori wrote:Regardless, The Gauss Flayer can destroy a Land Raider, so it wins even if it can't put out the volume of fire a shoota can.

Unless of course you're not facing a land raider, but instead a horde of Orks/Tyranids/Humans.

Land Raiders are rare, most living beings in 40k haven't ever heard of them more likely than not, nevermind seen one.

Most living beings don't encounter a Necron either, so what's your point?

The Shoota may be better at Killing Humans and things of a weaker nature by nature of rate of fire, but the Flayer is better at killing anything that has the armor to resist the shootas, including heavily armored vehicles.

Melissia wrote:

Sasori wrote:Regardless, The Gauss Flayer can destroy a Land Raider, so it wins even if it can't put out the volume of fire a shoota can.

Unless of course you're not facing a land raider, but instead a horde of Orks/Tyranids/Humans.

Land Raiders are rare, most living beings in 40k haven't ever heard of them more likely than not, nevermind seen one.

Saying if doesn't change the fact that it is more powerful. Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

As far as killing what you hit goes the Flayer has more stoping power.

Shoota

The question is going to be impossible to answer unless you define far more criteria than just 'best'.

For example, are we talking about 'best weapon for a normal human to use?' Bolters can do more damage, may have better armor penetration, and are generally more psychological, but they are bulky, maintenance intensive, costly, and the ammo is large and you can't carry very much of it. Gauss flayers and Shuriken weapons might be more destructive or better penetration, but they are also alien weapons and a typical human would have no way to maintain or reload/replace them. so once you use up it's power it's useless. Also there's a question of ergonomics (less so for shuriken weapons but Gauss weapons are not exactly designed for squishy organics to use and they look front-heavy.) Pulse rifle is in the same boat, and I'm not exactly sure how it is maintenance wise.

Lasguns might be 'best' in some ways (reliability, ammo capacity and availability, accuracy, versatility, etc.) but it invariably also relies on a certain level of techbase to create and maintain (someone has to provide the plug-and-play parts you use to maintain the weapon, and not everyone will know how to make those parts easily.) so it could be a drawback.

Under all those considerations, you could actually make an argument for something like an autogun or stubber as being 'best'.

Castiel wrote:Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

Which is irrelevant because that almost never happens.

The rate of fire makes the shoota mroe powerful because it's putting out more firepower over the same period of time.

Think about the difference between a bolt action sniper rifle and an assault rifle. The assault rifle is the more powerful weapon because it can do more damage faster, even though the sniper rifle does more more per shot due to greater individual firepower. Sure, the sniper rifle can potentially disable a vehicle, but it's unlikely to do so in the first place-- just like gauss flayers.

Melissia wrote:

Castiel wrote:Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

Which is irrelevant because that almost never happens.

The rate of fire makes the shoota mroe powerful because it's putting out more firepower over the same period of time.

It's every bit as relevant, you never know what your going to face, so a gun that can put down everything from grunts to tanks is an advantage.

And rate of fire doesn't neccessarily make a weapon more powerful, especially as the majority of the shots are likely to miss or bounce off. With the flayer a hit will do damage.

Not to mention that as you aren't an Ork the shoota won't work!

Lasgun. Easy to produce and maintain and kills what it is designed to do just fine. It doesn't matter if your anti-infantry weapon can kill tanks or not, that's not what it's supposed to do!

And technically speaking, the Storm Bolter is the "standard service rifle" of the Grey Knights...

Melissia wrote:

Castiel wrote:Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

Which is irrelevant because that almost never happens.

The rate of fire makes the shoota mroe powerful because it's putting out more firepower over the same period of time.

This isn't true at all. You can put out as many bullets as you want, but that doesn't mean you are going to be able to scratch the paint on a Land Raider.

The fact of the Matter is, that the Shoota is useless in some circumstances, while the Gauss Flayer can be used in all instances of combat to varying effectiveness. This makes the Flayer a better weapon, period.

Gauss Flayers do lack anything resembling a stock however. This isn't a problem when you're a robot wielding the weapon (or perhaps in power armor) but it can make it hard for a normal person to use properly.

Sasori wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Castiel wrote:Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

Which is irrelevant because that almost never happens.

The rate of fire makes the shoota mroe powerful because it's putting out more firepower over the same period of time.

This isn't true at all. You can put out as many bullets as you want, but that doesn't mean you are going to be able to scratch the paint on a Land Raider.

The fact of the Matter is, that the Shoota is useless in some circumstances, while the Gauss Flayer can be used in all instances of combat to varying effectiveness. This makes the Flayer a better weapon, period.

It's not a better weapon if you're facing a horde of Guardsmen/Nids/whatever. More versatile doesn't equal "better".

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Castiel wrote:Sure the rate of fire might be more useful against a horde, but what if you are facing a marine mech assault mounted in Land Raiders?

Which is irrelevant because that almost never happens.

The rate of fire makes the shoota mroe powerful because it's putting out more firepower over the same period of time.

This isn't true at all. You can put out as many bullets as you want, but that doesn't mean you are going to be able to scratch the paint on a Land Raider.

The fact of the Matter is, that the Shoota is useless in some circumstances, while the Gauss Flayer can be used in all instances of combat to varying effectiveness. This makes the Flayer a better weapon, period.

It's not a better weapon if you're facing a horde of Guardsmen/Nids/whatever. More versatile doesn't equal "better".

True, but it is better if you are facing a mech assault. If is irrelevant. You don't know what you're going to face, so bring a weapon that can kill everything.