Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wanted to build a list that puts my harbinger of eternity to good use. Using stuff I own I came up with the following:

2000 Pts - Necrons Roster - Harbingers of Eternity

HQ:
. . 1 Overlord, 200 pts (Hyperphase Sword; Mindshackle Scarabs; Sempiternal Weave; Resurrection Orb; Tachyon Arrow; Upgrade to Phaeron)
. . 1 Royal Court, 200 pts
. . . . 1 Harbinger of Eternity (Chronometron)
. . . . 1 Harbinger of Destruction (Solar Pulse)
. . . . 1 Harbinger of Destruction
. . . . 1 Harbinger of Destruction
. . . . 1 Harbinger of Destruction

Elite:
. . 10 Flayed One Pack
. . 10 Flayed One Pack
. . 5 Deathmarks

Troops:
. . 10 Immortals, 170 pts (Tesla Carbine)
. . 15 Warriors, 310 pts
. . . . 1 Ghost Ark

Fast Attack:
. . 3 Destroyers, 180 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon x3)
. . 3 Destroyers, 120 pts (Gauss Cannon x3)

Heavy Support:
. . 1 Doomsday Ark
. . 1 Annihilation Barge
. . 1 Monolith

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Tactic: Overlord joins Warriors, Royal Court inside Ghost Ark. They move close together for repairs and to join the overlord to royal to snipe a tank out with tachyon arrow at my convenience.
Heavy Destroyers on obvious anti vehicle duties, other destroyers on anti meq duties as well as AV 10 hunting. Deathmarks deal with annoying targets using their ability, flayed ones threaten the flanks or help out against cc units that shooting cant deal with.

Immortals target mobs and AV10. Doomsday ark and Annhilitation barge aim at infantry and may help with vehicles if needed (not the best use for them)

Monolith does it's shenanigans drawing tons of fire and causing havoc until my opponent realizes he should've just ignored it.

Overall I woudlnt call this list competitive for a tournament setting but certainly strong and with enough varied in unit options to make for a fun tactical game.

What say you, like or dislike?

- Too few Troop choices for 2K points.
- 20 Flayed Ones are a bit of a point sink
- Having 4 S7 Ap- shots and a large S9 Blast if you don't move is just inadequate AT firepower, even with the Heavy Destroyers.
- I'd recommend dropping the Flayed Ones, take some Scarabs and Wraiths instead, and split the Warriors and Immortals into 4 units, boosting their numbers with any remaining points.

Troops can always be reserved to last longer if need be and splitting them into smaller units will just make it harder to win in KP games so no thank you.

how are flayed ones a point sink?? This isn't the 3rd edition necron codex, the new flayed ones are awesome!

I never said im relying on doomsday ark and annihiliation barge for AT....i specifically said their roles are on infantry with AT support only if needed.

my AT comes from that ghost ark loaded with crypteks and the 3 heavy destroyers.

You didn't even answer the actual question of the thread by the way smh...

I know that you are using what you have on hand, but Flayed Ones underwhelm me. I'd either go with the Storm Lord so that they don't scatter, or replace them with something else (troops, really)

I think you need more troops; a minimum of 4 units at this level.

Deathmarks really do better with more targets on the table... which means more units of deathmarks.

Doomsday ark also underwhelms me... I think that an additional Annihilation Barge is the way to go there.

Okay, my two cents about it:
Is the tachyon arrow really worth it? It's a one-shot only per game, so should you miss... And since you seem to have AT already taken care of with the Ark and the Court, it may even be a bit redundant.
From what I have gathered, Flayed ones don't seem to be as hard-hitting as promised, so maybe drop them and use the points elsewhere.
And yes, more Troop choices, as others have pointed out. You can never have too much of those.
Overall, not sure if I like this list, it could use more work.
Haven't actually played a game with these guys yet, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt.

Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??

Akaiyou wrote:Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??
Because they're a dedicated CC unit, with no real CC abilities. Sure they have 3 attacks, but can quickly be shot up/avoided when they Deep Strike.

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??
I'd prefer a S9 Ap1 5" Blast than 4 S7 Ap- shots. Wait, you said the Doomsday Ark underwhelms?

And if you're just going to reject my advice about 2 Troops choices, think about it this way: You play Capture and Control, one of your choices has to remain in your DZ, while the other goes (slowly without a transport) for the opponent's objective. You play standard objective missions, you'll have on average 3 objectives that you have to capture and defend with your 2 units. Simply put, two scoring units is a pitiful amount for 2000 point games. Split the Warriors into 5 and 10, use the unit of 5 to guard objectives in your DZ. Drop a Flayed One unit to buy a Night Scythe for the unit of 10, allowing them to capture objectives later in the game. Also, you're placing a lot of points in your Overlord for stuff you really don't actually need. The Warscythe, Res Orb and possibly the Mindshackles would be all you need.

To the OP, if your not gonna listen to advice, then don't ask.

I suggest you get rid of the flayed ones and get some scarabs and wraith since they are great CC units.

take another squad of deathmarks

get rid of the doomsday ark and add another Annihilation Barge.

get rid of Harbinger of Eternity (Chronometron)

Have min of 4 warrior troops for your Harbinger of destruction to join to.

downgrade the immortals to 5 man so they can sit on an objective.

give the overlord a command barge and add a destroyer lord to lead the wraith into battle.

and the overlord only need warscythe (take out tanks) mindscarabs (taking out HQ/ MC) and res orb so he can get back up.

If you are taking Deathmarks, stick a destroyer lord with them. Deliver that HQ where you want him when they come in via counter deep-strike. Nice little gem to have turn 1 when a drop pod enters.

Dislike.

War scythes are MUCH better than the Hyperphase sword. Your overlord should always be taking one, when he can.

Flayed ones are terrible. If you want a real combat unit, Take Wraiths. They can do more damage, are faster, and more survivable. They can also deal with Tanks easily as well.

I don't see the purpose of the Monolith in this list. It is just a big expensive target. 200 points that could be put elsewhere.

You really should be running at least 3 troop choices at 2000 points.

This list just screams "Easy Target Priority" which is it's biggest failing. You have very little anti-tank, at the point level when people are running a plethora of vehicles.

Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

Why when people write a list that doesn't look like every other list already submitted does everybody react with "rewrite your list to look like mine?"

Suggestions are tweaks within a lists frame work, many of y'alls suggestion obviously completely disregard the framework and scope he's shooting for, and you wonder why people bristle with your "advice." Disrespecting his initial strategy entirely is no way to go about things.


Akaiyou: Flayed Ones work quite well, and anybody who will tell you differently doesn't understand math or doesn't know how to use them. Your paying 4.33 points per strength 4/WS 4 attack, plus T4, 4+/RP5+ . They are really a sick buy when you break down the mechanics. One suggestion I would make is come with a big blob of 15+ instead of two blogs of ten. Their only real downside is mobility, but you can certainly over comb this with good placement, and their deployment options are about as good as you can get. Even if you get your opponent running from them if placed right you can funnel them into the rest of your army. You can also use their mobility to create pits that other assault unit will have to traverse to get to your warriors.


Also I would suggest dump a few more points into the troops, make the warrior brick 20. Personally I think if you are going to go with one TS as warriors with a GA, you should have a second one as well. I would swap the group of ten immortals for a group of 5 warriors with a GA, so you have two GA's working on your brick of 20. I also agree with the notion you absolutely have to have more then 2 troop selection as necrons. If designed correctly two group of necron troops will out last 4 or more from other codices.

Why when people write a list that doesn't look like every other list already submitted does everybody react with "rewrite your list to look like mine?"

Suggestions are tweaks within a lists frame work, many of y'alls suggestion obviously completely disregard the framework and scope he's shooting for, and you wonder why people bristle with your "advice." Disrespecting his initial strategy entirely is no way to go about things.

The point of the Army list section, is to help make the most competitive list possible. If you want a Fun list, then there is no reason to even post it, as it doesn't matter what you put on the Tabletop. He also didn't say anything like "I'd like to keep XXX, to go with a theme" He asked what was thought about his list. If I think it's a terrible list, I'm going to tell him so, and make suggestions to help improve it.

Akaiyou: Flayed Ones work quite well, and anybody who will tell you differently doesn't understand math or doesn't know how to use them. Your paying 4.33 points per strength 4/WS 4 attack, plus T4, 4+/RP5+ . They are really a sick buy when you break down the mechanics. One suggestion I would make is come with a big blob of 15+ instead of two blogs of ten. Their only real downside is mobility, but you can certainly over comb this with good placement, and their deployment options are about as good as you can get. Even if you get your opponent running from them if placed right you can funnel them into the rest of your army. You can also use their mobility to create pits that other assault unit will have to traverse to get to your warriors.

I disagree. While PPV they may be good mathwise, it does not Translate well to the tabletop. The 4+ save and I2 kills them more than their lack of a special CCW. It's very easy to shoot up a close by infiltrated unit. It's either going to be in rapidfire range by moving my units, or it wouldn't be in charge range by the end of the next players turn anyway. It's not hard to blow apart a unit of Flayed ones, so that they get no RP, or are down to the point where they are not a threat anymore. What are they going to do against a fully meched up list, or someone like Dark Eldar and Eldar who they'll never catch? You just don't get the return in them, that you can from other units like Wraiths, which are multipurpose, and honesty flat out better than Flayed ones. They pretty much suffer the same issues as Death Cult Assassins, which point per point, are the best assault units in the game, but their flaws are hard to work around.

Cryage wrote:Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

130 points of FOs will get somewhere between 3.33 and 2.33 MEQ casualties on the charge depending on if they take 0 to 3 casualties, which is about the range you can expect from most units.

Compare this to 130 points of wyches (10 + succy with agonizer) who will get between 4 and 2.5 on the charge against MeQ, depending on drug. The wyches are a tad more mobile but the FO's are a tad more survivable, particularly against small arms fire.

Please provide me with 130 points of anything that will give you much better numbers. I'll wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

I disagree. While PPV they may be good mathwise, it does not Translate well to the tabletop. The 4+ save and I2 kills them more than their lack of a special CCW. It's very easy to shoot up a close by infiltrated unit. It's either going to be in rapidfire range by moving my units, or it wouldn't be in charge range by the end of the next players turn anyway. It's not hard to blow apart a unit of Flayed ones, so that they get no RP, or are down to the point where they are not a threat anymore. What are they going to do against a fully meched up list, or someone like Dark Eldar and Eldar who they'll never catch? You just don't get the return in them, that you can from other units like Wraiths, which are multipurpose, and honesty flat out better than Flayed ones. They pretty much suffer the same issues as Death Cult Assassins, which point per point, are the best assault units in the game, but their flaws are hard to work around.

Fair point, but I would say if you get your opponent shooting at the FOs, they are doing the job. A good chunk of their points is spent on resilience, so fire power being focused on them is working to your advantage from an efficiency standpoint. It takes 60 bolter shots to reliably wipe a unit of 10 flayed ones. In an MSU list that is every single bolder from the troops section shooting at one unit of Flayed Ones. If just one survives they should statistically be back up to 4, still big enough to cause headaches. I personally run between 12 and 15 in a unit, and I've never ever seen them wiped the turn they arrive. Ever.


Also if you get your opponent running from an objective, they are also doing their job.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Cryage wrote:Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

130 points of FOs will get somewhere between 3.33 and 2.33 MEQ casualties on the charge depending on if they take 0 to 3 casualties, which is about the range you can expect from most units.

Compare this to 130 points of wyches (10 + succy with agonizer) who will get between 4 and 2.5 on the charge against MeQ, depending on drug. The wyches are a tad more mobile but the FO's are a tad more survivable, particularly against small arms fire.

Please provide me with 130 points of anything that will give you much better numbers. I'll wait.

Death Cult Assassins.

Wyches are also a lot more survivable in CC, than Flayed ones, since the Wyches have a 4+ invul. Most people who run Wyches also start them with a pain token, giving them FNP, which can be better/worse for survivability depending on the ranged weapon that's fired at them, and the weapons and strength of the enemy in CC.

Flayed Ones currently are terrible. Keep playing them, if they don't get shot at for one or two rounds before they get to assault, your opponent's been sleeping. The only way to get an assault off on them before they get shot is to out-flank with them. Even then, you're opponent is still sleeping as he just needs to keep 12" away from the edges until they come on. 130pts for 10 seems like a good deal, until the die to one or two rounds of a 90pt Predator shooting at them. Armour 4 == fail. Now if they had fleet, or if you could assault the same turn you deepstrike (rumoured for 6th) they'd be *hawt*. I'd take 20 every game.

Destroyers are *alright*, they're very middling. They'll perform fine for you, I'm sure... however... Scarabs and Wraiths are AMAZING and will make more than their points in *every battle you play*. 10 Scarabs is 150 pts. In my last game against Grey Knights they killed those jump-pack dudes, some Psychostroke grenade special character dude, and a Psifleman Dread. Scarabs == win. Take 10 every game, even without Spyders.

I like the Chronometron Guy, I love the Harbingers of Destruction, but I don't believe you are allowed two different schools in the same court. ~"Any number of Crypteks may be upgraded to a single specific type of Cryptek" not ~"Any Cryptek may be upgraded to a single specific type of Cryptek". (I might be wrong here, waiting for the FAQ).

Doomsday Arks are terrible. 175 pts is practically two Annihilation Barges, which are superior in almost every way (they average 5.2 Str 7 hits a turn, you'll often see between 3 and 8)

I'm not a fan of Ghost Arks, and you didn't it in the correct way in this list. You want multiple units of warriors supported by 1 or 2 ghost arks with your destruction crypteks inside the Arks. You *cannot* have only your Royal Court in the Ghost Ark, it can only have a squad of warriors in there and Crypteks/Lords can only hop in if they are part of the warrior unit. If you can make it work, Two Ghost Arks with two 5-man squads with Crypteks of Destruction inside, then two larger units on foot. Keep them paired up with the unit on foot until you need to split off to contest objectives.

Sasori wrote:

Death Cult Assassins.

Wyches are also a lot more survivable in CC, than Flayed ones, since the Wyches have a 4+ invul. Most people who run Wyches also start them with a pain token, giving them FNP, which can be better/worse for survivability depending on the ranged weapon that's fired at them, and the weapons and strength of the enemy in CC.

Again, fair point, but like you said DCA's have their own issues. Also, while wyches can be a tad more survivable in CC, FOs are MUCH more survivable if caught out in the open. Wyches caught out in the open die almost instantly, this is not the case with the FOs.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Death Cult Assassins.

Wyches are also a lot more survivable in CC, than Flayed ones, since the Wyches have a 4+ invul. Most people who run Wyches also start them with a pain token, giving them FNP, which can be better/worse for survivability depending on the ranged weapon that's fired at them, and the weapons and strength of the enemy in CC.

Again, fair point, but like you said DCA's have their own issues. Also, while wyches can be a tad more survivable in CC, FOs are MUCH more survivable if caught out in the open. Wyches caught out in the open die almost instantly, this is not the case with the FOs.

Depends on of they have a Pain token from a Haemy or not. In most cases they do. Which as I said, it also depends on the weapon firing at them. Strength 5 or lower AP 3-4 weapon firing at FNP Wyches, are more survivable than Flayed ones, for instance. So it depends on the ranged weapon. Any strength 6+ Ap 5-6 weapon would slaughter the Wyches, in which case the Flayed ones would get out almost unscathed.

Generally though, Wyches have the means to get where they are going a lot more so than Flayed ones. With Fleet, and a raider they are almost guaranteed to get into the safety of CC.

loreweaver wrote:Flayed Ones currently are terrible. Keep playing them, if they don't get shot at for one or two rounds before they get to assault, your opponent's been sleeping. The only way to get an assault off on them before they get shot is to out-flank with them. Even then, you're opponent is still sleeping as he just needs to keep 12" away from the edges until they come on. 130pts for 10 seems like a good deal, until the die to one or two rounds of a 90pt Predator shooting at them. Armour 4 == fail. Now if they had fleet, or if you could assault the same turn you deepstrike (rumoured for 6th) they'd be *hawt*. I'd take 20 every game.

That's 100% false (except the last part, which I agree, would be hawt). Two round of a 90pt predator isn't going to make a serious dent in a group of 10 FOs. And a 4+ save is anything BUT fail. The prevailing AP in the game is 5, with most weapons with 4 or lower being primarily anti tank weapons. If your opponent is pouring their anti tank into the FOs instead of say, your AV 13 vehicles, your going to win that game because your opponent is bad at the lifes. Even still, they have the RP for wounds that ignore or get through their armour save.

I've run a group of FOs in every game I've played since the new dex came out and have yet to be disappointed with them. Now I also generally run Imo so my FOs deployment can be particularly advantageous, but I find them useful without Imo as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Death Cult Assassins.

Wyches are also a lot more survivable in CC, than Flayed ones, since the Wyches have a 4+ invul. Most people who run Wyches also start them with a pain token, giving them FNP, which can be better/worse for survivability depending on the ranged weapon that's fired at them, and the weapons and strength of the enemy in CC.

Again, fair point, but like you said DCA's have their own issues. Also, while wyches can be a tad more survivable in CC, FOs are MUCH more survivable if caught out in the open. Wyches caught out in the open die almost instantly, this is not the case with the FOs.

Depends on of they have a Pain token from a Haemy or not. In most cases they do. Which as I said, it also depends on the weapon firing at them. Strength 5 or lower AP 3-4 weapon firing at FNP Wyches, are more survivable than Flayed ones, for instance. So it depends on the ranged weapon. Any strength 6+ Ap 5-6 weapon would slaughter the Wyches, in which case the Flayed ones would get out almost unscathed.

Generally though, Wyches have the means to get where they are going a lot more so than Flayed ones. With Fleet, and a raider they are almost guaranteed to get into the safety of CC.

Vary true, but wyches NEED to get into assault to be anything more then some leafs to blow away. FOs can be affective by just being threatening. In general in my experience, either I see a prime target for them (foot based HW squad) and go munch on it, or they arrive with not much to attack so I run into an objective and grab some cover. Either way I've presented the other general with a threat in his backfield that he must consider dealing with. Most will then focus fire them which is a round of shooting I have saved the rest of my army from. I run an Imo+SP list though so just about everything in my army goes into limiting my opponents effectiveness during the shooting phase. I never get tabled and usually win, and I know the FOs are a crucial reason why.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

loreweaver wrote:
You *cannot* have only your Royal Court in the Ghost Ark, it can only have a squad of warriors in there and Crypteks/Lords can only hop in if they are part of the warrior unit.

I don't think that's true. The rule sets no such parameters. It says only units that "can" be attached to warriors, it does not say that they "must" be so attached.

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??
Because they're a dedicated CC unit, with no real CC abilities. Sure they have 3 attacks, but can quickly be shot up/avoided when they Deep Strike.

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??
I'd prefer a S9 Ap1 5" Blast than 4 S7 Ap- shots. Wait, you said the Doomsday Ark underwhelms?

And if you're just going to reject my advice about 2 Troops choices, think about it this way: You play Capture and Control, one of your choices has to remain in your DZ, while the other goes (slowly without a transport) for the opponent's objective. You play standard objective missions, you'll have on average 3 objectives that you have to capture and defend with your 2 units. Simply put, two scoring units is a pitiful amount for 2000 point games. Split the Warriors into 5 and 10, use the unit of 5 to guard objectives in your DZ. Drop a Flayed One unit to buy a Night Scythe for the unit of 10, allowing them to capture objectives later in the game. Also, you're placing a lot of points in your Overlord for stuff you really don't actually need. The Warscythe, Res Orb and possibly the Mindshackles would be all you need.

Marthike wrote:To the OP, if your not gonna listen to advice, then don't ask.

I suggest you get rid of the flayed ones and get some scarabs and wraith since they are great CC units.

take another squad of deathmarks

get rid of the doomsday ark and add another Annihilation Barge.

get rid of Harbinger of Eternity (Chronometron)

Have min of 4 warrior troops for your Harbinger of destruction to join to.

downgrade the immortals to 5 man so they can sit on an objective.

give the overlord a command barge and add a destroyer lord to lead the wraith into battle.

and the overlord only need warscythe (take out tanks) mindscarabs (taking out HQ/ MC) and res orb so he can get back up.

Kurgash wrote:If you are taking Deathmarks, stick a destroyer lord with them. Deliver that HQ where you want him when they come in via counter deep-strike. Nice little gem to have turn 1 when a drop pod enters.

Sasori wrote:Dislike.

War scythes are MUCH better than the Hyperphase sword. Your overlord should always be taking one, when he can.

Flayed ones are terrible. If you want a real combat unit, Take Wraiths. They can do more damage, are faster, and more survivable. They can also deal with Tanks easily as well.

I don't see the purpose of the Monolith in this list. It is just a big expensive target. 200 points that could be put elsewhere.

You really should be running at least 3 troop choices at 2000 points.

This list just screams "Easy Target Priority" which is it's biggest failing. You have very little anti-tank, at the point level when people are running a plethora of vehicles.

#1 - Before you go telling the OP about how rude he is for asking for advice and then dismissing it, you should first READ the thread clearly and see if he actually asked for your advice or if you are just so full of yourself that you offer it even when nobody is asking for it. And to make things worst you complain about them not being interested in listening to it.

This is a POLL for a reason, my question was do you like or dislike the list, never asked for tips on what to edit on it.

#2 - Flayed ones are awesome. Any ork player will tell you that 'ard boyz are a solid buy, I should know I play orks too. And for just 3 pts more than an 'Ard Boy a Flayed Ones gets infiltrate/deepstrike, Ld 10, permanent S4, and RP rolls. If the 'ard boyz had all this crap you would all be swearing up and down that they are hands down the best CC unit in the game. For a non-combat dedicated army the necrons got a VERY sweet deal with the new flayed ones. The old ones sucked

If any of you like let's make a new thread to discuss this and break it down.

#3 - Doomsday ark doesnt kill vehicles reliably and is only better than a particle whip when aimed at terminators. I dont like the fact that it's selling point (range) requires you to leave it static, making it vulnerable to outflanking cc units (ironically...like a squad of flayed ones)

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

A 90 pt predator isn't anti-tank, it's got 8 shots at a flayed one unit that hit on 3's, wound on 2's & 3's, and deny an armour save because 4+ armour is terribad. Also, striking last is terribad.

I've run the 10-man flayed one squad for over 10 games. I've only had one game where they did something useful, that was assault a Tau Firewarrior Squad holding an objective in the back corner of the board (via Flank March). But because flayed ones are terrible, they couldn't even hold the objective.

Initiative 2 is bad. 3 S4 Attacks are good, T4 is pretty alright, Armour 4+ is terrible. Terrible. Terrible.

Another game against Tau, my 10 man flayed one unit died to 3 Crisis suits (with a couple gun drones in tow).

It's okay, you can admit it to yourself, flayed ones, while they may be fun, have no place in a competitive list. You know what'd be better than 20 flayed ones? 5 Praetorians with Particle Casters and Voidblades, they can actually kill vehicles and assault things. (As I'm sure you'll find that flayed ones get assaulted more than they get to assault).

I'll take 2000 pts of silly Orks and beat that list every time, because it's got 460+ wasted points in it. (Including the Monolith, which in that list, serves no tactical purpose).

loreweaver wrote:A 90 pt predator isn't anti-tank, it's got 8 shots at a flayed one unit that hit on 3's, wound on 2's & 3's, and deny an armour save because 4+ armour is terribad. Also, striking last is terribad.

I've run the 10-man flayed one squad for over 10 games. I've only had one game where they did something useful, that was assault a Tau Firewarrior Squad holding an objective in the back corner of the board (via Flank March). But because flayed ones are terrible, they couldn't even hold the objective.

Initiative 2 is bad. 3 S4 Attacks are good, T4 is pretty alright, Armour 4+ is terrible. Terrible. Terrible.

Another game against Tau, my 10 man flayed one unit died to 3 Crisis suits (with a couple gun drones in tow).

It's okay, you can admit it to yourself, flayed ones, while they may be fun, have no place in a competitive list. You know what'd be better than 20 flayed ones? 5 Praetorians with Particle Casters and Voidblades, they can actually kill vehicles and assault things. (As I'm sure you'll find that flayed ones get assaulted more than they get to assault).

I'll take 2000 pts of silly Orks and beat that list every time, because it's got 460+ wasted points in it. (Including the Monolith, which in that list, serves no tactical purpose).

First, go ahead and keep extrapolating your predator scenario, hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+/2+, RP stand back up on 5+. How again can you kill 10 FOs with two round of said shooting? Or were you pulling that out of your arse with the rest of your take?

Ok, so EVERY SINGLE MODEL IN THE GAME besides MeQ have teribad armor saves? Are you serious? And if you really use FOs in ten games, which I don't believe you, you used them terribly wrong if that was your take away. And if your FOs died to crisis suits you rolled terribly, because that is a complete statistical anomaly.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it, FOs are awesome, and damn near auto include. If you don't think so your just bad at the game I guess .

I'm being sarcastic, but they are certainly a viable unit in any army, even a "competitive" one. If your mileage has really varied that much, it has more to do with you not knowing how to use them then anything else.

Cryage wrote:Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

Are you out of your mind how could you say that the old flayed ones were in any way better than the current ones? I will def make this new thread and ask you all to come in and prove your claims beyond just theory hammer or word of mouth. The 13 pt Flayed Ones are a steal and one of the gems of the new codex. Anyone that played Necrons before the surge created by the new codex would know this.

ShadarLogoth wrote:Why when people write a list that doesn't look like every other list already submitted does everybody react with "rewrite your list to look like mine?"

Suggestions are tweaks within a lists frame work, many of y'alls suggestion obviously completely disregard the framework and scope he's shooting for, and you wonder why people bristle with your "advice." Disrespecting his initial strategy entirely is no way to go about things.


Akaiyou: Flayed Ones work quite well, and anybody who will tell you differently doesn't understand math or doesn't know how to use them. Your paying 4.33 points per strength 4/WS 4 attack, plus T4, 4+/RP5+ . They are really a sick buy when you break down the mechanics. One suggestion I would make is come with a big blob of 15+ instead of two blogs of ten. Their only real downside is mobility, but you can certainly over comb this with good placement, and their deployment options are about as good as you can get. Even if you get your opponent running from them if placed right you can funnel them into the rest of your army. You can also use their mobility to create pits that other assault unit will have to traverse to get to your warriors.


Also I would suggest dump a few more points into the troops, make the warrior brick 20. Personally I think if you are going to go with one TS as warriors with a GA, you should have a second one as well. I would swap the group of ten immortals for a group of 5 warriors with a GA, so you have two GA's working on your brick of 20. I also agree with the notion you absolutely have to have more then 2 troop selection as necrons. If designed correctly two group of necron troops will out last 4 or more from other codices.

Finally someone with due sense and that actually did read the thread properly. Thank you sir you brighten my day in this dark millennium Initially I also thought to add 2 blocks of Warriors instead of 1 unit of immortals but then dismissed this as I am only running 1 overlord so it would mean one unit of warriors would not really be getting their shots in if the GA is moving along the other warrior unit. In this case the immortals were the better option, more durable and go along perfectly with the move and shoot theme im going for. And in the case I have to reserve it for a capture and control mission the immortals can come into the board and shoot at a nearby target with a 30" threat range walking in where as the unit of warriors would most likely not have any shots to contribute.

Sasori wrote:

Why when people write a list that doesn't look like every other list already submitted does everybody react with "rewrite your list to look like mine?"

Suggestions are tweaks within a lists frame work, many of y'alls suggestion obviously completely disregard the framework and scope he's shooting for, and you wonder why people bristle with your "advice." Disrespecting his initial strategy entirely is no way to go about things.

The point of the Army list section, is to help make the most competitive list possible. If you want a Fun list, then there is no reason to even post it, as it doesn't matter what you put on the Tabletop. He also didn't say anything like "I'd like to keep XXX, to go with a theme" He asked what was thought about his list. If I think it's a terrible list, I'm going to tell him so, and make suggestions to help improve it.

Akaiyou: Flayed Ones work quite well, and anybody who will tell you differently doesn't understand math or doesn't know how to use them. Your paying 4.33 points per strength 4/WS 4 attack, plus T4, 4+/RP5+ . They are really a sick buy when you break down the mechanics. One suggestion I would make is come with a big blob of 15+ instead of two blogs of ten. Their only real downside is mobility, but you can certainly over comb this with good placement, and their deployment options are about as good as you can get. Even if you get your opponent running from them if placed right you can funnel them into the rest of your army. You can also use their mobility to create pits that other assault unit will have to traverse to get to your warriors.

I disagree. While PPV they may be good mathwise, it does not Translate well to the tabletop. The 4+ save and I2 kills them more than their lack of a special CCW. It's very easy to shoot up a close by infiltrated unit. It's either going to be in rapidfire range by moving my units, or it wouldn't be in charge range by the end of the next players turn anyway. It's not hard to blow apart a unit of Flayed ones, so that they get no RP, or are down to the point where they are not a threat anymore. What are they going to do against a fully meched up list, or someone like Dark Eldar and Eldar who they'll never catch? You just don't get the return in them, that you can from other units like Wraiths, which are multipurpose, and honesty flat out better than Flayed ones. They pretty much suffer the same issues as Death Cult Assassins, which point per point, are the best assault units in the game, but their flaws are hard to work around.

Sasori usually you give great advice and stuff I find a lot of your posts knowledgeable but my friend you are wrong here.

#1 - Show me where in the army list section it says that every thread here must be geared for tournament play or optimization? This is just your own personal belief.
Threads have subject lines for a reason, they have an initial post for a reason. When you answer a thread you should stick to the subject I never asked for what things to edit I made a poll as I mentioned in my previous post, and asked wether people disliked or liked the list. Never asked for advice and I even went as far as to mention that i'm not aiming for competitive play I clearly have faith in what I created with what I own and simply wanted to see what others think of it not what they think I should do with it.

You and everyone else would be well served to pay attention to the actual question asked when replying to a thread in the future, lest you be reminded that not every thread is here for optimization or to look identical to yours. To claim that other army lists have no place in this forum is just rude.

#2 - See my previous post on Flayed Ones and do please come to the thread I will create on them and we can dispute all these false claims on their utility.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Cryage wrote:Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

130 points of FOs will get somewhere between 3.33 and 2.33 MEQ casualties on the charge depending on if they take 0 to 3 casualties, which is about the range you can expect from most units.

Compare this to 130 points of wyches (10 + succy with agonizer) who will get between 4 and 2.5 on the charge against MeQ, depending on drug. The wyches are a tad more mobile but the FO's are a tad more survivable, particularly against small arms fire.

Please provide me with 130 points of anything that will give you much better numbers. I'll wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

I disagree. While PPV they may be good mathwise, it does not Translate well to the tabletop. The 4+ save and I2 kills them more than their lack of a special CCW. It's very easy to shoot up a close by infiltrated unit. It's either going to be in rapidfire range by moving my units, or it wouldn't be in charge range by the end of the next players turn anyway. It's not hard to blow apart a unit of Flayed ones, so that they get no RP, or are down to the point where they are not a threat anymore. What are they going to do against a fully meched up list, or someone like Dark Eldar and Eldar who they'll never catch? You just don't get the return in them, that you can from other units like Wraiths, which are multipurpose, and honesty flat out better than Flayed ones. They pretty much suffer the same issues as Death Cult Assassins, which point per point, are the best assault units in the game, but their flaws are hard to work around.

Fair point, but I would say if you get your opponent shooting at the FOs, they are doing the job. A good chunk of their points is spent on resilience, so fire power being focused on them is working to your advantage from an efficiency standpoint. It takes 60 bolter shots to reliably wipe a unit of 10 flayed ones. In an MSU list that is every single bolder from the troops section shooting at one unit of Flayed Ones. If just one survives they should statistically be back up to 4, still big enough to cause headaches. I personally run between 12 and 15 in a unit, and I've never ever seen them wiped the turn they arrive. Ever.


Also if you get your opponent running from an objective, they are also doing their job.

Dude you must definetly come to the flayed ones discussion thread soon to be created. Your math hammer is on point.

Sasori wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Cryage wrote:Flayed ones are way worse than even the 3rd edition codex. No terrifying visage :(

Also I2 and only T4... WHEN they do hit back, with whatever remaining troops you have, won't be the awesome "40 attacks on a charge!" you are thinking , it will likely only be 20-28. Consider half of those miss , 10-14 hit. Consider half of those wound, 5-7 attacks, and they all let your enemy roll armor saves since they aren't power weapons or even rending, you may kill 1-3 units a turn :(

130 points of FOs will get somewhere between 3.33 and 2.33 MEQ casualties on the charge depending on if they take 0 to 3 casualties, which is about the range you can expect from most units.

Compare this to 130 points of wyches (10 + succy with agonizer) who will get between 4 and 2.5 on the charge against MeQ, depending on drug. The wyches are a tad more mobile but the FO's are a tad more survivable, particularly against small arms fire.

Please provide me with 130 points of anything that will give you much better numbers. I'll wait.

Death Cult Assassins.

Wyches are also a lot more survivable in CC, than Flayed ones, since the Wyches have a 4+ invul. Most people who run Wyches also start them with a pain token, giving them FNP, which can be better/worse for survivability depending on the ranged weapon that's fired at them, and the weapons and strength of the enemy in CC.

That's the problem....why would you assault wyches with flayed ones? Would you run a 10 man 'ard boyz unit against wyches? NO! Why? Cuz that's simply a terrible idea.
You toss boys at targets they can kill not at the dedicated CC units that would clearly beat them. This holds true for any army you don't shoot at vehicles with bolters from anything less than the rear AV10 if you are shooting AV 11 with bolters there's something wrong with your common sense.

loreweaver wrote:Flayed Ones currently are terrible. Keep playing them, if they don't get shot at for one or two rounds before they get to assault, your opponent's been sleeping. The only way to get an assault off on them before they get shot is to out-flank with them. Even then, you're opponent is still sleeping as he just needs to keep 12" away from the edges until they come on. 130pts for 10 seems like a good deal, until the die to one or two rounds of a 90pt Predator shooting at them. Armour 4 == fail. Now if they had fleet, or if you could assault the same turn you deepstrike (rumoured for 6th) they'd be *hawt*. I'd take 20 every game.

Destroyers are *alright*, they're very middling. They'll perform fine for you, I'm sure... however... Scarabs and Wraiths are AMAZING and will make more than their points in *every battle you play*. 10 Scarabs is 150 pts. In my last game against Grey Knights they killed those jump-pack dudes, some Psychostroke grenade special character dude, and a Psifleman Dread. Scarabs == win. Take 10 every game, even without Spyders.

I like the Chronometron Guy, I love the Harbingers of Destruction, but I don't believe you are allowed two different schools in the same court. ~"Any number of Crypteks may be upgraded to a single specific type of Cryptek" not ~"Any Cryptek may be upgraded to a single specific type of Cryptek". (I might be wrong here, waiting for the FAQ).

Doomsday Arks are terrible. 175 pts is practically two Annihilation Barges, which are superior in almost every way (they average 5.2 Str 7 hits a turn, you'll often see between 3 and 8)

I'm not a fan of Ghost Arks, and you didn't it in the correct way in this list. You want multiple units of warriors supported by 1 or 2 ghost arks with your destruction crypteks inside the Arks. You *cannot* have only your Royal Court in the Ghost Ark, it can only have a squad of warriors in there and Crypteks/Lords can only hop in if they are part of the warrior unit. If you can make it work, Two Ghost Arks with two 5-man squads with Crypteks of Destruction inside, then two larger units on foot. Keep them paired up with the unit on foot until you need to split off to contest objectives.

Wow just about everything you posted is wrong, jeez are you playing based of theory hammer?

Your flayed ones are dying because you dont know how to use them or maybe you are a dedicated necron player for all i know and never played a cc oriented army to understand how to properly play your cc units to their strengths. Luckily I play a wide range of different armies many of which ARE cc oriented and flayed ones are a steal even if they are only soaking up fire they are still a steal.

Destroyers are solid.

Yes you can mix and match your court...look around at all the necron lists here, everyone is doing it.

Doomsday Ark is not terrible, i agree its not the best there is but its not terrible it has it's uses. Or you seriously think your Annhiliation Barges will be killing terminators for you?

Annhilation Barges are good choices but they are NOT anywhere near as great as the internet is making them out to be. People are just spreading this rumor like wild fire for no reason. 1 Monolith is better than 2 annihilation barges and doesnt take up 2 HS slots.

I'm using the ghost ark in the best possible way by running the eternity descrution court in it. Do your research

I'm going to address the stuff that I believe is directed at my comments.

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

This is incorrect. Look at the Hyperphase sword on the Lychguard, then look at the Necron Overlords weapon from the CCB. It's a Warscythe, you can tell how because of how long it is.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

Please start your thread then. I have argued for the benefit of the Monolith before, but only certain lists benefit really from it. The biggest issue is they are a massive target, and lance and melta bait now. It's also very slow. It's optium range for it's weapons, is also dangerously close to Melta now.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

If you are willing to take that risk, more power to you.

As I said before, your list is target priority made easy. That's it's biggest weakness. The fact that you are using subpar units, in subpar configurations only exacerbates the problem.

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

Have you ever thought that some of us, are perhaps speaking from Experience? Instead of hitting everyone here who disagrees with your list with such broad brush strokes, perhaps you should take into account that a lot of us have tried and tested many things with the codex.

In the end though, why did you bother posting your list here? If it wasn't to incite discussion, only to show "This is my list, I don't want any feedback, but here is a poll" Why post it?

EDIT: I see you addressed my Army list reasoning. Which is a fair enough point. I guess it's just my Perspective, on this section.

EDIT2: I'll go ahead and address these points.

Sasori usually you give great advice and stuff I find a lot of your posts knowledgeable but my friend you are wrong here.

#1 - Show me where in the army list section it says that every thread here must be geared for tournament play or optimization? This is just your own personal belief.
Threads have subject lines for a reason, they have an initial post for a reason. When you answer a thread you should stick to the subject I never asked for what things to edit I made a poll as I mentioned in my previous post, and asked wether people disliked or liked the list. Never asked for advice and I even went as far as to mention that i'm not aiming for competitive play I clearly have faith in what I created with what I own and simply wanted to see what others think of it not what they think I should do with it.

You and everyone else would be well served to pay attention to the actual question asked when replying to a thread in the future, lest you be reminded that not every thread is here for optimization or to look identical to yours. To claim that other army lists have no place in this forum is just rude.

#2 - See my previous post on Flayed Ones and do please come to the thread I will create on them and we can dispute all these false claims on their utility.

Well, I think it's kind of an understood thing, that the point of this section is for feedback. If you didn't want anyone to comment, or have a discussion you probably would have been better off being more specific in the OP. This is a discussion board, first and foremost, so if you DON'T want discussion on something, you really should specify so. You are right though, it is my own personal belief.

What is the point of posting it though, if you have no plans to change it, and are happy with it? Just to show what you are playing? Why not wait and do that for a battle report. For me, that defeats the purpose of this section.

I'll gladly defend my point of view in a thread about Flayed ones.

That's the problem....why would you assault wyches with flayed ones? Would you run a 10 man 'ard boyz unit against wyches? NO! Why? Cuz that's simply a terrible idea.
You toss boys at targets they can kill not at the dedicated CC units that would clearly beat them. This holds true for any army you don't shoot at vehicles with bolters from anything less than the rear AV10 if you are shooting AV 11 with bolters there's something wrong with your common sense.

We were discussing PPV of those units, not throwing them against each other. However Flayed Ones lack the maneuverability that Wyches have, so it's not like the opposing players are going to give you a choice in the matter of assault.

Sasori wrote:I'm going to address the stuff that I believe is directed at my comments.

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

This is incorrect. Look at the Hyperphase sword on the Lychguard, then look at the Necron Overlords weapon from the CCB. It's a Warscythe, you can tell how because of how long it is.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

Please start your thread then. I have argued for the benefit of the Monolith before, but only certain lists benefit really from it. The biggest issue is they are a massive target, and lance and melta bait now. It's also very slow. It's optium range for it's weapons, is also dangerously close to Melta now.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

If you are willing to take that risk, more power to you.

As I said before, your list is target priority made easy. That's it's biggest weakness. The fact that you are using subpar units, in subpar configurations only exacerbates the problem.

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

Have you ever thought that some of us, are perhaps speaking from Experience? Instead of hitting everyone here who disagrees with your list with such broad brush strokes, perhaps you should take into account that a lot of us have tried and tested many things with the codex.

In the end though, why did you bother posting your list here? If it wasn't to incite discussion, only to show "This is my list, I don't want any feedback, but here is a poll" Why post it?

EDIT: I see you addressed my Army list reasoning. Which is a fair enough point. I guess it's just my Perspective, on this section.

EDIT2: I'll go ahead and address these points.

Sasori usually you give great advice and stuff I find a lot of your posts knowledgeable but my friend you are wrong here.

#1 - Show me where in the army list section it says that every thread here must be geared for tournament play or optimization? This is just your own personal belief.
Threads have subject lines for a reason, they have an initial post for a reason. When you answer a thread you should stick to the subject I never asked for what things to edit I made a poll as I mentioned in my previous post, and asked wether people disliked or liked the list. Never asked for advice and I even went as far as to mention that i'm not aiming for competitive play I clearly have faith in what I created with what I own and simply wanted to see what others think of it not what they think I should do with it.

You and everyone else would be well served to pay attention to the actual question asked when replying to a thread in the future, lest you be reminded that not every thread is here for optimization or to look identical to yours. To claim that other army lists have no place in this forum is just rude.

#2 - See my previous post on Flayed Ones and do please come to the thread I will create on them and we can dispute all these false claims on their utility.

Well, I think it's kind of an understood thing, that the point of this section is for feedback. If you didn't want anyone to comment, or have a discussion you probably would have been better off being more specific in the OP. This is a discussion board, first and foremost, so if you DON'T want discussion on something, you really should specify so. You are right though, it is my own personal belief.

What is the point of posting it though, if you have no plans to change it, and are happy with it? Just to show what you are playing? Why not wait and do that for a battle report. For me, that defeats the purpose of this section.

I'll gladly defend my point of view in a thread about Flayed ones.

That's the problem....why would you assault wyches with flayed ones? Would you run a 10 man 'ard boyz unit against wyches? NO! Why? Cuz that's simply a terrible idea.
You toss boys at targets they can kill not at the dedicated CC units that would clearly beat them. This holds true for any army you don't shoot at vehicles with bolters from anything less than the rear AV10 if you are shooting AV 11 with bolters there's something wrong with your common sense.

We were discussing PPV of those units, not throwing them against each other. However Flayed Ones lack the maneuverability that Wyches have, so it's not like the opposing players are going to give you a choice in the matter of assault.

#1 - The more I look at it the more it looks just like an extra long version of the hyperphase sword.
Reference page 83. Look at the hyperphase sword there and then the warscythe, the only thing in common with the CCB Overlord weapon is that the length everything else is identically looking to the hyperphase sword.

Reference page 71. There's 2 pictures of a Lychguard armed with both types of weapons look CLOSELY at the hyperphase sword and then reference page 67 and compare.

Furtheremore on page 67, there are 2 necrons with warscythes (old school) which look completely different.

I would WISH that this weapon was a warscythe but in all honesty the thing that resembles it closest is the hyperphase sword, admittedly it looks 'different' to every other weapon there. The only thing i can find in common with the warscythe is the length, the new design for the warscythe is too different to what the CCB Overlord has IMO.

Or do you have some other proof that it's a warscythe? Because i would be eternally grateful to not have to 'proxy' it in games here n there. I'm not a big fan of proxies...

#2 - Here's the link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/420171.page#3735668

#3 - As I said before I find that you are very knowledgeable i've read your posts for quite some time now here in dakka, and the lack of experience play is clear for those that state ridiculous things like Flayed Ones are getting owned by Crisis Suits and 90 pt predadtors in anything short of a fluke. This is a game of dice and luck some times you simply roll bad doesnt mean the unit is terrible if you dismiss something just because you had one or two bad rolls then you are clearly not truly speaking from experience. Experience comes with time = multiple games

#4 - There's a difference between requesting feedback for discussion and requesting feedback of a specific kind. A thread is normally created for feedback on something this is true. Where you are going wrong is that you are not actually listening to the 'something' that is being requested.

How much clearer can I be? Do I need to post a disclaimer for people with your beliefs? I mean jeez I went out of my way to create a POLL and the only question ON the post is 'do you like or dislike' It doesnt get much clearer than this.

I shouldn't have to post in caps saying I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF YOU GUYS LIKE OR THIS LIKE THIS LIST AND MAYBE WHY, BUT NOT SEEKING TO EDIT IT.

It was perfectly reading reason to state your reasons why you dislike it, but instead everyone starts jumping in saying 'change this change that, your list is crap right now blah blah blah make it more like mine' If i wanted to get advice for edits I would've done the thread differently much like many other threads that i've posted and you've given me great advice on.

#5 - Here's the link on flayed ones: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420167.page

Akaiyou wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??
Because they're a dedicated CC unit, with no real CC abilities. Sure they have 3 attacks, but can quickly be shot up/avoided when they Deep Strike.

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??
I'd prefer a S9 Ap1 5" Blast than 4 S7 Ap- shots. Wait, you said the Doomsday Ark underwhelms?

And if you're just going to reject my advice about 2 Troops choices, think about it this way: You play Capture and Control, one of your choices has to remain in your DZ, while the other goes (slowly without a transport) for the opponent's objective. You play standard objective missions, you'll have on average 3 objectives that you have to capture and defend with your 2 units. Simply put, two scoring units is a pitiful amount for 2000 point games. Split the Warriors into 5 and 10, use the unit of 5 to guard objectives in your DZ. Drop a Flayed One unit to buy a Night Scythe for the unit of 10, allowing them to capture objectives later in the game. Also, you're placing a lot of points in your Overlord for stuff you really don't actually need. The Warscythe, Res Orb and possibly the Mindshackles would be all you need.

#1 - Before you go telling the OP about how rude he is for asking for advice and then dismissing it, you should first READ the thread clearly and see if he actually asked for your advice or if you are just so full of yourself that you offer it even when nobody is asking for it. And to make things worst you complain about them not being interested in listening to it.

Well then really what on Earth are you doing posting list here if you're not asking for advice. Either you're so full of yourself you're assuming that this list is perfect in everyway, or you're just peeved that almost everyone has voted "dislike" to this list, and are actually offering constructive criticism in their faces.

This is a POLL for a reason, my question was do you like or dislike the list, never asked for tips on what to edit on it.

Dakka Dakka 40K Army Lists wrote:Post and review 40K army lists

So you really just came onto an army list review forum, to not have your list reviewed?


#2 - Flayed ones are awesome. Any ork player will tell you that 'ard boyz are a solid buy, I should know I play orks too. And for just 3 pts more than an 'Ard Boy a Flayed Ones gets infiltrate/deepstrike, Ld 10, permanent S4, and RP rolls. If the 'ard boyz had all this crap you would all be swearing up and down that they are hands down the best CC unit in the game. For a non-combat dedicated army the necrons got a VERY sweet deal with the new flayed ones. The old ones sucked

Yes, chances to make your opponents WS1 are very suckage indeed ¬¬ thank god they got rid of that rule. Telling an Ork player that his Tankbusters are cheaper than Deathmarks won't make him want to take Tankbusters, because Tankbusters suck. It's just really not possible to cross-compare units from 2 Codexes like this.

If any of you like let's make a new thread to discuss this and break it down.

#3 - Doomsday ark doesnt kill vehicles reliably and is only better than a particle whip when aimed at terminators. I dont like the fact that it's selling point (range) requires you to leave it static, making it vulnerable to outflanking cc units (ironically...like a squad of flayed ones)

Do you understand how far 72" actually is? The only conventional AT weapons that can match that range are Railguns.

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

So your chances to hit are improved, I'll give you that, but what happens when you roll a 1 to penetrate these super-vehicles? Believe me, it happens more times than you'd think, and then you've wasted 60-80 points on nothing.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

I could get 3 Annihilation Barges that you're so confident are much better for 200 points.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

Yes, three Troop choices are pretty much necessary in anything over 1250pts (unless you're playing IG). So what happens when your opponent manages to contest this backfield objective because you haven't bothered to control it?

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??
Because they're a dedicated CC unit, with no real CC abilities. Sure they have 3 attacks, but can quickly be shot up/avoided when they Deep Strike.

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??
I'd prefer a S9 Ap1 5" Blast than 4 S7 Ap- shots. Wait, you said the Doomsday Ark underwhelms?

And if you're just going to reject my advice about 2 Troops choices, think about it this way: You play Capture and Control, one of your choices has to remain in your DZ, while the other goes (slowly without a transport) for the opponent's objective. You play standard objective missions, you'll have on average 3 objectives that you have to capture and defend with your 2 units. Simply put, two scoring units is a pitiful amount for 2000 point games. Split the Warriors into 5 and 10, use the unit of 5 to guard objectives in your DZ. Drop a Flayed One unit to buy a Night Scythe for the unit of 10, allowing them to capture objectives later in the game. Also, you're placing a lot of points in your Overlord for stuff you really don't actually need. The Warscythe, Res Orb and possibly the Mindshackles would be all you need.

#1 - Before you go telling the OP about how rude he is for asking for advice and then dismissing it, you should first READ the thread clearly and see if he actually asked for your advice or if you are just so full of yourself that you offer it even when nobody is asking for it. And to make things worst you complain about them not being interested in listening to it.

Well then really what on Earth are you doing posting list here if you're not asking for advice. Either you're so full of yourself you're assuming that this list is perfect in everyway, or you're just peeved that almost everyone has voted "dislike" to this list, and are actually offering constructive criticism in their faces.

This is a POLL for a reason, my question was do you like or dislike the list, never asked for tips on what to edit on it.

Dakka Dakka 40K Army Lists wrote:Post and review 40K army lists

So you really just came onto an army list review forum, to not have your list reviewed?


#2 - Flayed ones are awesome. Any ork player will tell you that 'ard boyz are a solid buy, I should know I play orks too. And for just 3 pts more than an 'Ard Boy a Flayed Ones gets infiltrate/deepstrike, Ld 10, permanent S4, and RP rolls. If the 'ard boyz had all this crap you would all be swearing up and down that they are hands down the best CC unit in the game. For a non-combat dedicated army the necrons got a VERY sweet deal with the new flayed ones. The old ones sucked

Yes, chances to make your opponents WS1 are very suckage indeed ¬¬ thank god they got rid of that rule. Telling an Ork player that his Tankbusters are cheaper than Deathmarks won't make him want to take Tankbusters, because Tankbusters suck. It's just really not possible to cross-compare units from 2 Codexes like this.

If any of you like let's make a new thread to discuss this and break it down.

#3 - Doomsday ark doesnt kill vehicles reliably and is only better than a particle whip when aimed at terminators. I dont like the fact that it's selling point (range) requires you to leave it static, making it vulnerable to outflanking cc units (ironically...like a squad of flayed ones)

Do you understand how far 72" actually is? The only conventional AT weapons that can match that range are Railguns.

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

So your chances to hit are improved, I'll give you that, but what happens when you roll a 1 to penetrate these super-vehicles? Believe me, it happens more times than you'd think, and then you've wasted 60-80 points on nothing.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

I could get 3 Annihilation Barges that you're so confident are much better for 200 points.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

Yes, three Troop choices are pretty much necessary in anything over 1250pts (unless you're playing IG). So what happens when your opponent manages to contest this backfield objective because you haven't bothered to control it?

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

How many tournaments have you won?

How many battle reports have you posted?

Where are you getting all this game experience from??? You are saying a lot of crazy talk here

You clearly do not know much on math hammer that you think a tachyon arrow with chronometron is anything short of awesome. Furthemore on the EXTREMELY unlikely case that you whiff even with the chronometron you seem to think that you've somehow wasted 60 or 80 pts as if thats the ONLY time the chornometron would ever work in my list wtf???

Do you actually play necrons man?

Jeez if you can get 3 ABs for 200 pts then something is wrong with my codex and army builder program. I think you should pass me some of whatever it is that you are having...

3 troops in any game over 1250 pts? Ridiculous. Find me a draigowing/deathwing/eldar wraith/nob biker list/eldar biker list that fields 3 mandatory troops at 1250 and i'll give you a cookie

If you wish to argue on flayed ones and monoliths i made threads for htem in the Tactica section feel free to express your opinions there.

Akaiyou wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:Why is everyone so underwhelmed by Flayed Ones? They are amazing! Is anyone actually out there play testing this stuff or just going off poor word of mouth??
Because they're a dedicated CC unit, with no real CC abilities. Sure they have 3 attacks, but can quickly be shot up/avoided when they Deep Strike.

I'm going to have to make a thread on this stuff or something to hopefully counter these claims.

I agree doomsday ark underwhelms but woah annhilation barge is not any better. It's simply cheaper. Why is everyone so infatuated with that thing??
I'd prefer a S9 Ap1 5" Blast than 4 S7 Ap- shots. Wait, you said the Doomsday Ark underwhelms?

And if you're just going to reject my advice about 2 Troops choices, think about it this way: You play Capture and Control, one of your choices has to remain in your DZ, while the other goes (slowly without a transport) for the opponent's objective. You play standard objective missions, you'll have on average 3 objectives that you have to capture and defend with your 2 units. Simply put, two scoring units is a pitiful amount for 2000 point games. Split the Warriors into 5 and 10, use the unit of 5 to guard objectives in your DZ. Drop a Flayed One unit to buy a Night Scythe for the unit of 10, allowing them to capture objectives later in the game. Also, you're placing a lot of points in your Overlord for stuff you really don't actually need. The Warscythe, Res Orb and possibly the Mindshackles would be all you need.

#1 - Before you go telling the OP about how rude he is for asking for advice and then dismissing it, you should first READ the thread clearly and see if he actually asked for your advice or if you are just so full of yourself that you offer it even when nobody is asking for it. And to make things worst you complain about them not being interested in listening to it.

Well then really what on Earth are you doing posting list here if you're not asking for advice. Either you're so full of yourself you're assuming that this list is perfect in everyway, or you're just peeved that almost everyone has voted "dislike" to this list, and are actually offering constructive criticism in their faces.

This is a POLL for a reason, my question was do you like or dislike the list, never asked for tips on what to edit on it.

Dakka Dakka 40K Army Lists wrote:Post and review 40K army lists

So you really just came onto an army list review forum, to not have your list reviewed?


#2 - Flayed ones are awesome. Any ork player will tell you that 'ard boyz are a solid buy, I should know I play orks too. And for just 3 pts more than an 'Ard Boy a Flayed Ones gets infiltrate/deepstrike, Ld 10, permanent S4, and RP rolls. If the 'ard boyz had all this crap you would all be swearing up and down that they are hands down the best CC unit in the game. For a non-combat dedicated army the necrons got a VERY sweet deal with the new flayed ones. The old ones sucked

Yes, chances to make your opponents WS1 are very suckage indeed ¬¬ thank god they got rid of that rule. Telling an Ork player that his Tankbusters are cheaper than Deathmarks won't make him want to take Tankbusters, because Tankbusters suck. It's just really not possible to cross-compare units from 2 Codexes like this.

If any of you like let's make a new thread to discuss this and break it down.

#3 - Doomsday ark doesnt kill vehicles reliably and is only better than a particle whip when aimed at terminators. I dont like the fact that it's selling point (range) requires you to leave it static, making it vulnerable to outflanking cc units (ironically...like a squad of flayed ones)

Do you understand how far 72" actually is? The only conventional AT weapons that can match that range are Railguns.

#4 - I stated im using the stuff I own for this list. Thus why I don't have a warscythe on the overlord, the CCB kit comes with hyperphase sword. And Tachyon Arrow works very well with Chornometron so at least that's practically 1 guaranteed super vehicle dead before the Overlord joins up with the Warriors.

So your chances to hit are improved, I'll give you that, but what happens when you roll a 1 to penetrate these super-vehicles? Believe me, it happens more times than you'd think, and then you've wasted 60-80 points on nothing.

#5 - The monolith is ALWAYS a good choice, it's the best Heavy Support choice we have if not at least in the top 2. Again I would gladly dispute this on a new thread just for that.

I could get 3 Annihilation Barges that you're so confident are much better for 200 points.

#6 - Yeah i understand 2 troops hurt in seize ground im willing to take that risk, I mentioned in my opening post that this is in no way a TOURNAMENT style list, i'm not going to oenter any GTs with it, it's simply a good varied list with plenty strengths to have fun and win some games with. In capture and control I can simply reserve a troop unit and leave the objective in the back lines in the center of the table then press forward with 1800 pts of stuff to contest the enemy objective. This tactic WORKS. 3 Troops are NOT needed in every 2k pt list, tactics and terrain placement are your friends.

Yes, three Troop choices are pretty much necessary in anything over 1250pts (unless you're playing IG). So what happens when your opponent manages to contest this backfield objective because you haven't bothered to control it?

I dont speak off theory alone, I actually go out there and play test thing. Ive posted tons of battle reports on this site, its not like i don't know what im talking about.
Don't just follow what the internet says go out there and build your own play experiences people.

How many tournaments have you won?

How many battle reports have you posted?

Where are you getting all this game experience from??? You are saying a lot of crazy talk here

You clearly do not know much on math hammer that you think a tachyon arrow with chronometron is anything short of awesome. Furthemore on the EXTREMELY unlikely case that you whiff even with the chronometron you seem to think that you've somehow wasted 60 or 80 pts as if thats the ONLY time the chornometron would ever work in my list wtf???

Do you actually play necrons man?

Jeez if you can get 3 ABs for 200 pts then something is wrong with my codex and army builder program. I think you should pass me some of whatever it is that you are having...

3 troops in any game over 1250 pts? Ridiculous. Find me a draigowing/deathwing/eldar wraith/nob biker list/eldar biker list that fields 3 mandatory troops at 1250 and i'll give you a cookie

If you wish to argue on flayed ones and monoliths i made threads for htem in the Tactica section feel free to express your opinions there.

First of all, if you continue with the hostilities then the mods will simply close this thread.

Second, no I don't play tournaments, and yes, I do play Necrons.

Thirdly, I am not saying the Tachyon/Chrono is not awesome, I'm saying that it can let you down in some circumstances. Short of using loaded dice, there is no way that you can fully 100% guarantee that the vehicle is going to be destroyed, unless you're firing at AV11, in that case I'd wonder why you're wasting Tachyons on AV11. Yet in your Cryptek Tactica you claimed that "The Chronometron is near useless".

And I admit I meant to say "for around 200 points" in my previous post. Maths aside, I think the point remains clear enough.

And have a look at jy2 or mercer's lists, they're usually very competitive. The first one I looked at had 4 (yes, 4!) units of 5 Warriors. Mercer's AV13 spammage has, wait for it, 4 units in Ghost Arks. Can I have that cookie now or are you just going to blast my criticism again?

No need to go into ad-hominem attacks buddy :-)

Flayed ones from 3rd edition codex had initiative 4, the visage, 4+ wbb, 3+ armor, and 2 attacks base. They were gimmicky, but a fun way to beef up my phase out number at the same cost as a warrior.

The new flayed ones lost a point of armor, denying them a save from AP 4 guns, but 4+ on its own is very middling. New RP is better, but you won't be putting an orb in that unit to improve it.

The biggest issue with this unit is that it will more often get assaulted then do the assaulting.

I take your point that it's unfair to compare this dedicated assault unit to another...

That said, if you lose 3 flayed ones before they get to hit, you're only getting 21 attacks back, 1 or 2 dead MEQ

Edit: once you lose the assault and run, you'll get swept.

That list is just.... bad. No synergy anywhere, its like you just threw a bunch of stuff together and wanna play with it... I'm being serious. Start from scratch is what I recommend.