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It sounds weird i know, but my friend is starting out and he just paints really. He is starting a DE army and he has 1 troop and he's about to get scourges. I really want to have a game, but i'm not going to tell someone what to do with their money. So how importiant is it to have the required 2 troops and HQ? Is that rule just for tournaments or is something you need to follow so you don't get destroyed by everything? Is it possible that if we just even the points between our units that it won't be such a bad game?

Well for just for fun games I suppose it's not a bad idea, However if he ever wants a game at the local FLGS or enter a tourney he's almost definitely not going to be playing.

Also objective games, sorta hard to win those with only enough troops to fill one troop slot.

Mandatory. It is required to have for any game. If you want to work something out with him and play differently that's up to you guys, but nobody else will play him. Just tell him to get some DE Warriors or Wyches, they're not very pricey.

Ahh i see. if you haven't noticed i'm pretty new to this as well

well its a compulsory requirement to playing the game because... well, it just is... you can play without the requirement if you like but most gamers wont approve i dont think

It helps facilitate a balanced army, ideally anyway. Every codex has the Force Organization Chart in it, and two troops and an HQ are listed as mandatory in every army, save for some special ones in scenarios here and there.

I have yet to still fully learn and play the game. So maybe it won't matter so much if we're just learning.

If you're just learning between the two of you then whatever; the more you play you'll realize it's important for balance though.

Outside of special missions like Kill Team or similar, 1 HQ 2 Troops are mandatory as said by others. For those just starting out, as in literally buying their first models or just getting interested, I'd have a bit more leeway.

It's a balance issue, and in any 'serious' game, you can expect that your opponent will hold you to it. That being said, the GW police aren't going to send you a cease and desist letter if you don't abide by FOC requirements. If you're just getting into the game, play with what you got, learn the rules, pick up some models here and there, and have fun with it. The Black Reach Space Marine army doesn't meet FOC requirements (only 1 Troops), and most (all?) of the battleforce boxes don't either (usually for lack of a HQ).

One of my friends just picked up the game, and put together just short of 500 points of Tau. He doesn't have a HQ, and he only has 9 Kroot in his carnivore squad (minimum unit size is 10). Still, we've had a few opportunities to get in some small matches. He's learned the basics and gotten a feel for what his units are capable of, and by the time he's ready to add a few more units and expand to 750 points, he'll meet the FOC requirements for a 'legal' force.

Could aslo proxi units as troops.

Yeah, they're absolutely mandatory. They're the basic parts of an army.

You could use something like the below rules just to get a feel.
500 pt FLASH TOURNAMENT RULES
• You must have 1+ Troop choice and a minimum of 2 non-HQ unit selections.
• You may only have 0-1 HQ selection, even if allowed more than one such selection per HQ.
• You may only have 0-3 total Elite, Fast Assault and Heavy Support units combined.
• You may only have 0-1 non-HQ unit with more than 2 wounds. Minimum unit size is 1 model, maximum size is unit’s original minimum size.
• No independent characters or HQ selections with more than 2 wounds.
• No monstrous creatures.
• No units with a toughness over 6.
• No equipment or upgrades with 2+ saves or models with 2+ saves.
• Vehicles squadrons may only take their minimum number of models.
• No vehicles with a total Armor Value greater than 33. Calculate this by adding the Front, Side, and Rear armor values (counting the Side once).
• No units with Ordnance weapons
• No Special Characters

500 pt Flash Army Specific Rules
• Black Templars: You may take 1 Sword Brethren unit as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Blood Angels: You may take 1 Sternguard Veteran Squad as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Chaos Space Marines: You may take 1 Chosen Chaos Space Marine unit as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Dark Angels: You may take 1 Company Veterans unit as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Dark Eldar: You may include 1 Incubi unit as a HQ choice with a min. unit size 1.
• Eldar: HQ Warlocks may be selected without taking a Farseer, and count as Independent Characters. One warlock can be taken as an HQ choice.
• Grey Knights: You may take 1 Paladin from a Paladin squad as a HQ choice.
• Imperial Guard: Ignore Infantry Platoon composition; you can select infantry platoon units individually. Command Squads count as HQ, Infantry and Conscript Squads as Troops and Heavy and Special Weapon Squads as Heavy Support.
• Necrons: You may take 1 Immortal unit as a HQ choice with min. nit size 1.
• Orks: You may take 1 Nobz unit as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Space Marines: You may take 1 Sternguard Veteran Squad as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Space Wolves: You may take 1 Wolf Guard unit as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Tyranids: You may take 1 Warrior Brood as a HQ choice with min. unit size 1.
• Witch Hunters: You may take 1 Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor as a HQ choice. Cannot be used as allies.

King Crow wrote:It sounds weird i know, but my friend is starting out and he just paints really. He is starting a DE army and he has 1 troop and he's about to get scourges. I really want to have a game, but i'm not going to tell someone what to do with their money. So how importiant is it to have the required 2 troops and HQ? Is that rule just for tournaments or is something you need to follow so you don't get destroyed by everything? Is it possible that if we just even the points between our units that it won't be such a bad game?

The main reason behind it is to keep people from *only* fielding super special crazy units and having at least a minimal standard type core to their army. You are free to play with your friend however you like. Ultimately the point costs will keep things from being silly.

Skriker

If he's just starting out don't worry about it, small points games I would say it doesn't matter much anyway, unless in a tournament of course.

Well my brother only has Black Reach Marines, so I spot him some of my stuff. What we do is each pool our models and take turns picking a unit. Soi, he ppicks a troop, and I must pick a troop. He picks an Elite, I pick an elite.



I suggest that whatever he has, you take an equivilent FOC slot. So he has troop and FA, so you take a 1 Troop and FA.

Thanks for clearing that up everyone. I was just hoping that it wouldn't make the game suck he didnt have the FoC requirements.

Keep in mind that in friendly games (literally between two friends) the FOC makes less of a difference than the surface of your kitchen counter. Within reason, of course. You two have to agree on how the game will be played, using what rules, etc, but if you want to throw down with three elites and an HQ? It shouldn't be a problem at all.

Between yourselves, you can plan out smaller games that are less strict about the FoC, but for games against anyone else, you'll to follow the FoC unless you discuss it beforehand.

I'd recommend focusing on completing your core first. A lot of those fast attack, heavy support, or elite units may look cool, but having a basic core to build around will give you a stronger starting point, and is generally more variable for future expansion, since units that occupy those FoC slots tend to be more specialized.
Additionally, focusing on your core to start generally makes it easier to learn the rules, since most troop choices aren't laden with as many special rules as their more specialized peers, which means less flipping through your codex, and more learning the rules of the game itself.

I'm all set with the FoC requirements. My friend only has DE warriors though and he's gonna get scourges. I don't know how serious he is about getting into gaming though, he doesn't even have a codex yet.
I'll be sure to tell him that he may want to focus on what he needs first though.

Keep in mind that only standard troops can occupy a mission marker (everyone can contest though), so if you kill his only standard, he can't win 2/3 of the scenarios anymore, getting a draw at best.
Also this was introduced as a minimum requirement against too cheesy lists.

Well if he's starting DE he can get away with a box of warriors and an archon/haemy, 2 venoms or 1 venom 1 raider. The haemy and 2 venoms go further but aren't as easy to start with.

Take the 10 warriors give one a blaster and everyone else a rifle. On one guy with a rifle and no bayonet cut off the rifle right before the small indented "line" begins. Take the blast pistol and glue the "bulb" of the muzzle on in place of the part you just removed. This should give you 2 x 5 man warrior squads with blasters. Toss them in the venoms. He can also steal the blaster from the scourges. Give them a DL or a heat lance. If you go with DL you can give them the one from the warrior box. The haemy can pal around with the HW scourges thus giving him the minimum required. A decent start to the army and keep costs down.

It is always fun to consider that both 40K and WFB do not have legal armies in the starter box.

Orks do. Split the boys into 2 ten man units. Or even leave them as 20 man and use the Warboss to make the Nobs Troops.

A good example of its importantance would be the AoBR set. Space marines do not follow force org in it.

Oops, sorry that was mentioned above.

Don't Tau have a legal box set?

King Crow wrote:Don't Tau have a legal box set?

I thought none of the Battleforces had an HQ.

EDIT: I guess you could use the battlesuit in it as a battlesuit commander.

Any MEQ Battleforce can be used to convert any marine to an HQ of some kind, bar scouts.

The Nid one can use the Warriors as Primes.


The Tau Battlesuit can be used as a Battlesuit Commander


The Infantry squads in an IG one can be used as vets and the PCS as a CCS.

Daemons could use a Bloodletter as a Herald or a Seeker as a Mounted Herald.

Deadshot wrote:Orks do. Split the boys into 2 ten man units. Or even leave them as 20 man and use the Warboss to make the Nobs Troops.

Exactly! Good eye right there.

d-usa wrote:It is always fun to consider that both 40K and WFB do not have legal armies in the starter box.

This point actually is too common and is sad. I find it very frustrating the point difference between the boxes. The fact that two friends can't each buy a box and then play is silly and is the reason that people are not joining the hobby as quickly as I would like them too. Additionally, why is a mini rulebook and codex not included in those boxes? Sure, it might raise the price, but if each box came with 2 troops, 1 hq, the rule book, and their respective codex then they would be real starter boxes. Notice games workshop doesn't call them starter sets. They call them battle forces.

I'm spending too much time complaining about this, but you get the idea. It isn't funny it is sad and is the reason that parents aren't more willing to let their kids get into the hobby. You need 400 to 500 bucks just to really play. That is not always the case, but it sure feels like it. A 13-17 year old kid might struggle with this point. I know I did.

I completley agree. just to get where I am with the hobby, I had to buy the paints, the codex, the brushes, the glue, and the damn battle force, and if i didn't space all that over 4 years i'd be completley broke. I had to hunt down a rule book that wasn't gong to cost me 50 bucks on ebay. And after all this I realized none of my friends are ever going to get into the hobby, can't say i blame them.

GW can be a lot more accomidating towards getting more customers, instead it seems like they are driving them away with the price hikes.