Necrons in 6th Edition (from leaked rules)

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**Swara**

This topic is from a suggestion to break off some discussion from the news and rumor post as it pertains to individual races.
As I'm a big fan of Necrons, I wanted to start off a conversation about the ups and downs of the most metallic race if this 6th edition is indeed true.

First off, this isn't to discuss if the 6th edition is true or not. If you want to debate that there is plenty of that going on in the news and rumor thread. Let's just assume for this discussion that it's true.

Taking Hyperphase swords on a lord will be a viable option, as it is a free upgrade and gives him a 5+ in close combat (and ranged?).

The monolith is classified as heavy, which would allow it to -3 on the damage chart, though this could of been changed later in the revising as the Necron codex stats that heavy means that he can move 6" and fire as if he is stationary. Even going with that second definition he still would be a behemoth (14AR front) which would give him MT(3) and if he always fires as if he is stationary he can move 6" and fire 8 weapons. So that's 2 for particle whip (it's an ordinance which takes two actions) 4 for each of the gauss arcs, 1 for the vacuum cleaner, and then it could spend 1 to fire all those weapons at different targets as he wishes. That would make one heck of a 200 point 14 all around powerhouse. ALSO if any vehicle moves at ALL it counts as having WS10, meaning it would be much harder to hit the monolith in close combat.
- Also units can teleport through the monolith and make a engage move (6" charge) in the same time, so lychguard to the face at last! (Thanks AresX8)

With the new changes to rapid fire you can now march those warriors or immortals with gauss forward and still fire your 24" shot.

I need to confirm this, but from what was said when an IC joins a unit he can no longer be targeted separately in CC. That coupled with the new wound allocation it will make more since for my destroyer lord with wraiths to NOT take the 2+ (though that would also mean that he could be targeted at range using the directed fire rule)

A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals as they can now already fire on the move with rapid fire, but it would still extend the double tapping range to 18" inches (Thanks to Bold or Stupid and AresX8)

Troops are now harder to completely destroy in close combat with the to the new combat resolution. (Thanks whigwam)

Destroyers now hit things easier with preferred enemy now being used in ranged as well. They will hit most things on a 2+. (Thanks Drachii)

With the new movement phase chart on pg. 50 it would allow us to teleport a unit that just came on the board as reserves via the monolith gate. (Thanks Veriamp)

[list]Night and Doomscythes got better as they can supersonic and gain the flyer trait and still fire along a line. This allows them to put down fire and also have a 6EV (Evasion) for that turn. (4 or under BS have to hit on a 6+) (Thanks Maelstrom808)

A very nice compilation of the mighty monolith! Thanks Azazel!

azazel the cat wrote:Let's talk about the Monolith:

1) Heavy* aka Super-Heavy(1)
It has a single structure point, meaning that it conveys a -3 modifier to everyone except a natural 6 on the vehicle damage chart.

2) Living Metal allows the Monolith to ignore the effects of a Crew Shaken on a roll of 3+ and to ignore Crew Stunned on a roll of 4+. Due to synergy with the Super-Heavy rule, only a natural 6 will not be modified down to one of these two results. (eg. 5: Wrecked becomes a 2: Crew Stunned)

3) Super-Heavies are able to attempt a repair function to remove a result of Immobilized or Weapon Destroyed.

4) Behemoth special rule applies to all tanks that have AV 14 on the front, -such as the Monolith- that automatically conveys Multi-Targeting (3)

5) The Monolith always counts as stationary for the purpose of shooting, meaning the Monolith is always considered to have Multi-Targeting (6), as MT gets doubled when stationary. So it is able to fire its Particle Whip and all four Gauss Flux Arcs every turn. Thanks to the built-in split fire rule of the Gauss Flux Arcs, these do not need to use a MT point in order to split fire. Or, it can fire the Particle Whip, 3 Flux Arcs and the Portal of Exile.

6) The Monolith is a skimmer, which means its Move has been increased to 8"

7) Skimmers ignore difficult/dangerous terrain

8) The Monolith can Deep Strike without fear of mishaps, because the mishap table is now gone. So it can Deep Dtrike without scattering 18" away from enemy units (still within Partice Whip range, mind you) or else it scatters and is treated like a drop pod if you Deep Strike closer than 18". However, as the Monolith is a Skimmer, it ignores terrain, meaning the Monolith is effectively immune from any ill effects of Deep Strikes, unless it becomes Stunned (which it can ignore on a roll of 4+ thanks to Living Metal). Additionally, because the Monolith is moved the minimum distance to resolve its placing just like a Drop Pod, this means the Monolith will always be 1" away from enemy units if you so choose. A perfect set-up to open the door to the Portal of Exile, right? You could suck up 2/3 of an IG blob doing this!

9) Thanks to the Behemoth special rule and the 'always counts as stationary when shooting' rules, the Monolith will have MT(6) even on the turn in which it deep strikes. This makes the Monolith one hell of a party crasher.

10) Units coming in through the portal are not subject to Defensive Fire, as they are not Deep Striking into play.

My overall position: At only 200 points, the Monolith is now possibly the best unit in all of 40k. I will be fielding both of mine once again, and if I can find the room, I will add a third to my army.

I'll update more as I get time. If I'm wrong on one of these points let me know and if you have some to add I'll add it to this first post to keep it nice and organized.

EDIT: I just realized I didn't put this in the 40k General Discussion (TOO MANY TABS, lol) I contacted them to have it moved. *bows* I'm sorry! (Thanks Mr. Admin : D *internet hugs*)

**whigwam**

I really hope the change to power weapons goes through (the 5++ specifically). It really would be nice to have a valid option for Overlords other than a Warscythe.

I think one of the best things for Necrons is how combat resolution/sweeping advance changes. Warriors are no longer an auto-crumple against any half-serious assault.

**Bold or Stupid**

A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals, but better when accompanied by a Cryptek heavy court.

**Swara**

Bold or Stupid wrote:A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals, but better when accompanied by a Cryptek heavy court.

Too bad the immortals don't have a close combat weapon, because at least then they would get 2 attacks as they could use their rapid fire as an additional weapon.
As for the Crypteks, aren't most of their weapons all assault?

**whigwam**

Swara wrote:
Bold or Stupid wrote:A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals, but better when accompanied by a Cryptek heavy court.

Too bad the immortals don't have a close combat weapon, because at least then they would get 2 attacks as they could use their rapid fire as an additional weapon.
As for the Crypteks, aren't most of their weapons all assault?

IIRC, all Cryptek weapons are Assault...

**Drachii**

If the Heavy tag on the monolith is applied correctly (See rulebook comment about superheavies with 1 structure point being referred to as 'heavy') it also gains MT(6), I believe.

Oh, and the change to Preferred Enemy means Destroyers will actually benefit from it in a useful manner.

**tetrisphreak**

As to the destroyer lord and wraiths - they are separate armor groups no matter what because the wraiths have a 3++ and the lord does not. taking the 2+ will still be beneficial. Also 5 wraiths can be allocated up to 10 wounds before the lord needs to take even one save.

My 2 cents.

**Swara**

whigwam wrote:
Swara wrote:
Bold or Stupid wrote:A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals, but better when accompanied by a Cryptek heavy court.

Too bad the immortals don't have a close combat weapon, because at least then they would get 2 attacks as they could use their rapid fire as an additional weapon.
As for the Crypteks, aren't most of their weapons all assault?

IIRC, all Cryptek weapons are Assault...

Ahh, yes they are. So the Phaeron rule got a lot worse unfortunately.

Drachii wrote:If the Heavy tag on the monolith is applied correctly (See rulebook comment about superheavies with 1 structure point being referred to as 'heavy') it also gains MT(6), I believe.

Oh, and the change to Preferred Enemy means Destroyers will actually benefit from it in a useful manner.

Doh, how did I miss putting up the preferred enemy change.. hitting on 2+, yes please.

As far as the monolith being a 1 structure point super heavy.. I think we'll see the new "heavy rule" as what it is in the necron codex... I would LOVE to have a 200 point superheavy of doom.. but they would be be way to powerful for their 200 points.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:As to the destroyer lord and wraiths - they are separate armor groups no matter what because the wraiths have a 3++ and the lord does not. taking the 2+ will still be beneficial. Also 5 wraiths can be allocated up to 10 wounds before the lord needs to take even one save.

My 2 cents.

True! Though I'm a little confused about how the new wound allocations work. I know it's by armor type now instead of gear, but you don't have to take 1 on the lord for every other wound since he has a separate armor group?

Also, would a 3++ be different than a 3+ armor group? I'm guessing yes, but I need to pop open the pdf again.

**tetrisphreak**

Armor groups must be saturated before moving to the next. Pg 14pdf (pg35txt).

**CthuluIsSpy**

I think the fact that he gets a free 5++ save is prolly why these rumors might be false.
That, and the fact that Phaeron is pointless. Why give an option that will become useless in the future?

**AresX8**

IMO I don't see Phaeron being useless. Relentless extends the double tap range to 18", so Warriors and Immortals have an effective double tapping range of 24", which is a rather big deal.

**Swara**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think the fact that he gets a free 5++ save is prolly why these rumors might be false.
That, and the fact that Phaeron is pointless. Why give an option that will become useless in the future?

Well, remember that this play test book might be 8 months old, so this is not a finalized copy we are looking at. Some of these rules may of not even made it in.
Though Phaeron got nerfed, we still have SOME heavy weapons that it could apply to for relentless. (I so wish Destroyer lords could take Phaeron...)

That being said, I'm trying to steer away from talk of the legitimacy of this rule book and just on if it's true what would it mean for Necrons.

**Wreckoning**

Swara wrote:
whigwam wrote:
Swara wrote:
Bold or Stupid wrote:A Phaeron has become less useful as when added to Warriors or Immortals, but better when accompanied by a Cryptek heavy court.

Too bad the immortals don't have a close combat weapon, because at least then they would get 2 attacks as they could use their rapid fire as an additional weapon.
As for the Crypteks, aren't most of their weapons all assault?

IIRC, all Cryptek weapons are Assault...

Ahh, yes they are. So the Phaeron rule got a lot worse unfortunately.

Phaeron would add 6" (to 18") to the range for the additional RapidFire shot as well. So I wouldn't say it got a LOT worse, but it definitely took a hit.

**Swara**

AresX8 wrote:IMO I don't see Phaeron being useless. Relentless extends the double tap range to 18", so Warriors and Immortals have an effective double tapping range of 24", which is a rather big deal.

AH! Another thing I read last night but completely forgot. Thanks you, and thanks for nothing Mr. Coffee.

**Bold or Stupid**

D'oh my bad. Yeah Phaeron has just got poor.

Oh and Deathmarks make special equipment in squads pointless with directed fire! Actually allowing them 2 shots at 18" may be the bast thing for Phaeron.

**Veriamp**

According to the movement phase chart on page 50 it diffidently answers the question of if the monolith can teleport a unit the turn it arrives from reserve. The answer is yes.

**tgf**

it looked to me like IC's still could be picked out in CC. Where did you see it say they can't. They are allowed to do directed attacks with no corse weapons which means they can stab sarge with PF in the face.

**AresX8**

Also forgot to mention that any Necron unit disembarking from the Monolith's portal can perform an Engage move. Lychguard getting into combat is now possible

**Tye_Informer**

whigwam wrote:
I think one of the best things for Necrons is how combat resolution/sweeping advance changes. Warriors are no longer an auto-crumple against any half-serious assault.

If I understand it right, it's a little better, as in the die roll is not based on initiative anymore, but still have a 2/3 chance of losing the entire squad in an assault. That' rough when my squad of 20 warriors is assaulted and I lose the entire squad to 1 wound.

I sure wish it was based on squad size, like shooting is. For example, say 5 Space Marines assault into my 20 warriors. That is 10 swings, 5 hits (rolling 4+, so average), and let's say 3 wounds (rolling 4+ again, slightly above average). The 3 warriors fail the saves (bad luck) and fall down but can get back up (on average, 1 should if the bad luck doesn't strike again). The 17 warriors left strike back, 17 swings, 8 hits , 4 wounds (average). The Marines make 2 saves, so 2 marines die (average). The warriors have lost by 1 wound and bad luck strikes again, they roll 10 (needed 9 or lower) then roll less than a 5 and are swept. (The chance of rolling 9 or higher on 2 dice is 28%, so not unlikely).

If they lose 3 model of 20, that shouldn't be that demoralizing compared to 2 models of a unit of 5. Why would losing 15% of your squad be worse than the other guy losing 40%. If the necron warriors stay in the fight, they will win. If they had passed their LD test, then 1 warrior pops back up (1 rolled 5+, the other 2 didn't). Next turn, 3 marines, 3 swings, 2 hits (above average), 2 wounds (above average again), 1 necron falls (average, 1 failed a 4+ armor save), 18 swings back, 9 hits (average), 4 wounds (below average), 1 marine down (below average). Assault is tied. The 1 warrior doesn't come back, Next round, 2 marines swing, 2 hits (above average), 1 wound (average), 1 necron fails (I'll call that average). Necrons swing back, 17 warriors swing, 8 hits (about average), 4 wounds (average), 1 unsaved (below average) so tied 1 unsaved wound each, still locked and the necron doesn't get up. Last round, 1 marine swings, hits, wounds, necron down (amazingly above average), 16 swings back, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 1 unsaved wound, Necrons win with 16 warriors still in the squad, losing a total of 20% of the squad to the entire assault. The marines lost 40% the first round!

My point is, a large unit that will so obviously win the combat should not have to take leadership modifiers for losing a few guys in combat, maybe no modifier if it's less than 25% of the squad lost.

Now, a good protection for this is scarabs, get them into the combat too and then the marines can't sweeping advance.

**Swara**

AresX8 wrote:Also forgot to mention that any Necron unit disembarking from the Monolith's portal can perform an Engage move. Lychguard getting into combat is now possible

Do they count as deep striking under that? Would they have to worry about defensive fire?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tgf wrote:it looked to me like IC's still could be picked out in CC. Where did you see it say they can't. They are allowed to do directed attacks with no corse weapons which means they can stab sarge with PF in the face.

You are right, I think I misread something.

**Veriamp**

There is no defensive fire because the monoliths portal counts as disembarking from a transport not a DS so your still safe.

**Swara**

Tye_Informer wrote:
whigwam wrote:
I think one of the best things for Necrons is how combat resolution/sweeping advance changes. Warriors are no longer an auto-crumple against any half-serious assault.

If I understand it right, it's a little better, as in the die roll is not based on initiative anymore, but still have a 2/3 chance of losing the entire squad in an assault. That' rough when my squad of 20 warriors is assaulted and I lose the entire squad to 1 wound.

I sure wish it was based on squad size, like shooting is. For example, say 5 Space Marines assault into my 20 warriors. That is 10 swings, 5 hits (rolling 4+, so average), and let's say 3 wounds (rolling 4+ again, slightly above average). The 3 warriors fail the saves (bad luck) and fall down but can get back up (on average, 1 should if the bad luck doesn't strike again). The 17 warriors left strike back, 17 swings, 8 hits , 4 wounds (average). The Marines make 2 saves, so 2 marines die (average). The warriors have lost by 1 wound and bad luck strikes again, they roll 10 (needed 9 or lower) then roll less than a 5 and are swept. (The chance of rolling 9 or higher on 2 dice is 28%, so not unlikely).

If they lose 3 model of 20, that shouldn't be that demoralizing compared to 2 models of a unit of 5. Why would losing 15% of your squad be worse than the other guy losing 40%. If the necron warriors stay in the fight, they will win. If they had passed their LD test, then 1 warrior pops back up (1 rolled 5+, the other 2 didn't). Next turn, 3 marines, 3 swings, 2 hits (above average), 2 wounds (above average again), 1 necron falls (average, 1 failed a 4+ armor save), 18 swings back, 9 hits (average), 4 wounds (below average), 1 marine down (below average). Assault is tied. The 1 warrior doesn't come back, Next round, 2 marines swing, 2 hits (above average), 1 wound (average), 1 necron fails (I'll call that average). Necrons swing back, 17 warriors swing, 8 hits (about average), 4 wounds (average), 1 unsaved (below average) so tied 1 unsaved wound each, still locked and the necron doesn't get up. Last round, 1 marine swings, hits, wounds, necron down (amazingly above average), 16 swings back, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 1 unsaved wound, Necrons win with 16 warriors still in the squad, losing a total of 20% of the squad to the entire assault. The marines lost 40% the first round!

My point is, a large unit that will so obviously win the combat should not have to take leadership modifiers for losing a few guys in combat, maybe no modifier if it's less than 25% of the squad lost.

Now, a good protection for this is scarabs, get them into the combat too and then the marines can't sweeping advance.

I agree with everything you say and I'm going to reread the combat resolution so make sure we didn't miss anything. Though if you put a regular lord with a hyperphase sword in that big glob it would probably make a bit difference.

**Maelstrom808**

Scythes just became a LOT better. The limited range on a Doom Scythe means almost nothing now if you are running supersonic...not to mention that most things will need a 6 to hit you, which really helps the AV 11 survive.

**Swara**

Maelstrom808 wrote:Scythes just became a LOT better. The limited range on a Doom Scythe means almost nothing now if you are running supersonic...not to mention that most things will need a 6 to hit you, which really helps the AV 11 survive.

Hell yes they do. I hope they aren't real hard to put together, because I'm buying 12 of these suckers the day they come out

(I also hope it'll be easy to magnetize them so you can switch all them up.. like 12 Doomscythes in apoc..

)

**AresX8**

Swara wrote:
AresX8 wrote:Also forgot to mention that any Necron unit disembarking from the Monolith's portal can perform an Engage move. Lychguard getting into combat is now possible

Do they count as deep striking under that? Would they have to worry about defensive fire?

...

Nope. The codex says "Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, but the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed."

Since it's not the Lychguard that deep struck in, they also can't be hit by Defensive Fire.

**Swara**

AresX8 wrote:
Swara wrote:
AresX8 wrote:Also forgot to mention that any Necron unit disembarking from the Monolith's portal can perform an Engage move. Lychguard getting into combat is now possible

Do they count as deep striking under that? Would they have to worry about defensive fire?

...

Nope. The codex says "Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, but the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed."

Since it's not the Lychguard that deep struck in, they also can't be hit by Defensive Fire.

Finally my 10 Lychguard will be making it into combat, lol.

Also:

Beacon
Guiding runes, telemetric projectors, teleport
homers, daemonic icons and similar devices allow
deep striking units to make a pinpoint strike.
Deep striking units that are placed completely
within 6” of a beacon never counts as being in
critical range. They do not scatter and can be
placed in a lose formation. Beacons only work if
they were already present on table at the start of
the turn. If the model with the beacon is
embarked or has just arrived from reserve, the
beacon is not quite ready to be of any benefit.

If bloodswarm scarabs from the stormlord would count as a beacon as it says " similar devices" that let a unit make a pinpoint strike, then flayed ones will be amazing for taking out heavy squads. They could teleport in, not get fired at, then charge in as they can deepstrike with in 6" of a unit and not scatter....

**AresX8**

How do they not get fired at through Defensive Fire?

**Swara**

AresX8 wrote:How do they not get fired at through Defensive Fire?

Because if they deepstrike via a Beacon they don't count as being in critical range which is the only time someone can fire on a DS unit.

Thought this is all depending if the marked unit would count as the beacon.

**AresX8**

Critical range only means that you scatter when closer than 18" from an enemy unit. Defensive Fire triggers on being ≤12" away from an enemy unit, not being in critical range. Look at the required trigger on pg 119 of the PDF.

**Swara**

AresX8 wrote:Critical range only means that you scatter when closer than 18" from an enemy unit. Defensive Fire triggers on being ≤12" away from an enemy unit, not being in critical range. Look at the required trigger on pg 119 of the PDF.

Ahh, you are right. Could still be good depending on what kind of unit you are going after. You can DP 1" in front of a group of plasma devastators and they couldn't shoot as they would hit themselves (Is that rule still in there?) . : P

If I took Imotekh I could see myself taking at least a small unit of them. I do fight a good amount of broadsides in the back of the board.. would be nice to drop them in and they really could only kill a max of two if you placed them right.