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Hi,

I'm confused about the everliving rule for necrons. If a unit of necrons is shot to death, the everliving rule allows the model to get back up even if his squad is destroyed. Does this also apply to when a unit is swept away in sweeping advance? Or if the unit was in cc, and simply chopped to death, as in was killed by attacked not by combat res, can the EL model get back up?

Thanks

Sweeping advance states that it is only capable of being ignored by rules that specifically mention Sweeping Advance being overruled/ignored.

ZombieJoe wrote:Hi,

I'm confused about the everliving rule for necrons. If a unit of necrons is shot to death, the everliving rule allows the model to get back up even if his squad is destroyed. Does this also apply to when a unit is swept away in sweeping advance? Or if the unit was in cc, and simply chopped to death, as in was killed by attacked not by combat res, can the EL model get back up?

Thanks

Unit shot to death... Everliving allowed.
Unit chopped to death... Everliving allowed. (No combat resolution... no sweeping attack)
Sweeping attack... no Everliving allowed.

What are you talking about?
when a unit is sweeping advanced all the models die, mark down where the ever living tokens go and at the end of the phase roll to see if they come back. Everliving means you always get to roll to see if they come back. you cannot reanimation protocol from a sweeping advance however as that means the whole squad is wiped out.

bagtagger wrote:when a unit is sweeping advanced all the models die, mark down where the ever living tokens go and at the end of the phase roll to see if they come back

The falling back unit is destroyed, and removed immediately. Unless otherwise specified, no save, or special rule can rescue the unit, for them the battle is over.

(I paraphrased, and added some emphasis, full explanation on page 40).

bagtagger wrote:What are you talking about?

The actual rules, how about you?

Happyjew wrote:

bagtagger wrote:when a unit is sweeping advanced all the models die, mark down where the ever living tokens go and at the end of the phase roll to see if they come back

The falling back unit is destroyed, and removed immediately. Unless otherwise specified, no save, or special rule can rescue the unit, for them the battle is over.

(I paraphrased, and added some emphasis, full explanation on page 40).

Guess where it is specified...

... In the the everliving rule where it says you get to roll to come back if you die.

Which never specifies it over-rides sweeping advance.
So it does not.

To be able to benefit from Ever-living, you need to be removed as a casualty. If you are not removed as a casualty, Ever-living as no effect.

Edit: First sentence under Ever-Living on page 29 of Codex: Necrons.

Where in my post did I mention that the Necrons die? I said the unit is destroyed and is [b]removed[/b[. Now show me where RP/EL says if the model is destroyed/removed from play (not[/] removed from play as a casualty) and I'll concede.

sweeping advance kills you, that then procs the placement of an everliving token.

All sweeping advance does is kill you. For normal rp it wipes the unit so they don't place the rp tokens, but for everliving there are no such restrictions and you still place the everliving token as that's what you do when the model dies. At the end of the phase you roll to see if the everliving token gets up


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:Where in my post did I mention that the Necrons die? I said the unit is destroyed and is [b]removed[/b[. Now show me where RP/EL says if the model is destroyed/removed from play (not[/] removed from play as a casualty) and I'll concede.

I don't think anywhere i have ever played has ruled that as different from being removed as a casualty.

Wrong, SA does not kill you, it removes the unit from play, exactly like JotWW removes models from play.

And since EL and RP allow you to come back after being removed from play, EL can allow the character to "survive" a SA that just removed him from play.

That distinction would matter with the old WBB but not for EL

No, EL/RP allows you to come back when removed from play as a casualty.

and how are you not a casualty after you've been swept.

bagtagger wrote:and how are you not a casualty after you've been swept.

This is irrelevant now. The problem is that SA states that it needs to be called out by any rule that preempts it.

EL does not, so it does not.

Editing to add text for those who do not want to check:

Main rules, page 40: "Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit"

Codex: Necrons, page 40 under Necron Special Rules the words "Sweeping Advance" are never mentioned, let alone specified.

Like many people pointed out: RP or EL works only when the model is removed as casualty. SA doesn't remove them as casualty, so no tokens. You don't get away from SA unless you have a rule that specifically states that you do.

Marshal_Gus wrote:And since EL and RP allow you to come back after being removed from play, EL can allow the character to "survive" a SA that just removed him from play.

No. Just no.

You cannot EL/RP from a JotWW, you cannot EL/RP from other "remove from play" abilities, you do not pass go, you do not collect $200.

You can EL/RP if you're removed as a casualty. SA does not remove you as a casualty.

kirsanth wrote:

bagtagger wrote:and how are you not a casualty after you've been swept.

This is irrelevant now. The problem is that SA states that it needs to be called out by any rule that preempts it.

EL does not, so it does not.

This is correct.
As an example take Space Marine ATSKNF. That rule (Codex SM page 51) says, "If Space Marines are caught by a sweeping advance, they are not destroyed and will instead continue to fight normally."

@bagtagger - Niether RP nor EL has anything in the rule that specifies they negate, ignore or survice a sweeping advance. Therefore, the main rule takes effect and if the Necron unit is caught in a sweeping advance, the entire unit is destroyed.

Wait, I remember reading recently that GW clarified that "Removed from play" was just another way of saying "Removed as a casualty".

Was that the new FAQ, or the leaked 6th rules?

That's the pancake edition.

The only model (that I know of anyway) who can attempt to come back from RFP type attacks is St Celestine.

Grakmar wrote:Wait, I remember reading recently that GW clarified that "Removed from play" was just another way of saying "Removed as a casualty".

Was that the new FAQ, or the leaked 6th rules?

That's true in the "leaked 6th edition". It's true for St. Celestine. It's not true anywhere else.

rigeld2 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Wait, I remember reading recently that GW clarified that "Removed from play" was just another way of saying "Removed as a casualty".

Was that the new FAQ, or the leaked 6th rules?

That's true in the "leaked 6th edition". It's true for St. Celestine. It's not true anywhere else.

Ah, my mistake. Too many new rules lately gets me confused...

Grakmar wrote:Wait, I remember reading recently that GW clarified that "Removed from play" was just another way of saying "Removed as a casualty".

Was that the new FAQ, or the leaked 6th rules?

In the case of sweeping advance, it doesn't matter.

If a unit is caught by a sweeping advance, none of the models are 'removed as casualties', none are 'removed from play'.

SA simply says if a fleeing enemy is caught in a sweeping advance, "The falling back unit is destroyed."

That's it. Just destroyed. and "Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage..."

And both Reanimation Protocols and Ever-Living are on page 29 of the Necron Codex, listed under "Necron Special Rules".

So unless otherwise specified, which sweeping advance in not specified or even mentioned in either of these rules, then those special rules "...cannot rescue the unit at this stage, for them the battle is over."

It depends on your interpretation of the new FAQ

Q: If an entire unit, including an attached character
from a Royal Court, is wiped out, do you get to make
any Reanimation Protocol rolls? (p29)
A: You would only get to make one roll for the
attached character as he has the Ever-living special rule.
Note that in this case, he must be placed within 3" of
the counter as his unit has been wiped out.

Specifically, whether you consider destroyed == wiped out or not.

That said, I do not believe you can roll ever living out of sweeping advance. At least not yet, if the leaked 6th ed rules are to be believed, however, destroy will trigger removed as casualty powers, and thus would allow you your EL roll.

Just food for thought.

Nope, no EL from a Sweeping Advance. Sweeping Advance very specifically states that only rules that explicitly say they save the unit from Sweeping Advance work against it. EL doesn't say that, so it doesn't. Very simple, and there's no need to get into 'removed from play' vs. 'removed from play as a casualty' at all.

It DOES NOT MATTER if you are destroyed, removed from play, etc

SA does not let you save the unit via a special rule (so, RP then) UNLESS the rule SPECIFIES it saves you from SA

ATSKNF specifies it saves you from SA
RP does not

RP does not save you from SA

nosferatu1001 wrote:It DOES NOT MATTER if you are destroyed, removed from play, etc

SA does not let you save the unit via a special rule (so, RP then) UNLESS the rule SPECIFIES it saves you from SA

ATSKNF specifies it saves you from SA
RP does not

RP does not save you from SA

I don't really care about the debate, but say SA did trigger RP (because it removed everyone in the unit as a casualty).

Would you get RP then? The unit wasn't saved - everyone was turned into a counter.

AKA - can you sweep St. C?