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Hey guys,

I know the Ecclesiarchy can't bear men under arms, but just as there are chapters with 'close' relations to the AdMech and whatnot, surely there must be some who are bros with the Ministorum?

Chaplains in most chapters may be of the opinion that the Ecclesiarchy is sort of wrong (The Emprah is a highly evolved man according to Spehss Mehrens, not a God) but is this really a standardised doctrine?

I think I read somewhere that new Chapters have their Chaplains instructed by existing Chapters' Chaplains, but is it really not feasible that a chapter could fall through the cracks or develop deviant beliefs? It's not like SM enforce their creed to the same extent as the Imperial Cult.

I guess GW just intended Marines to be a 'secular' influence. They sat out during the Age of Apostasy, for e.g. But meh, it'd be cool to have one or two chapters who like to help out the Ministorum from time to time. Modelling them on BTs would probably be rather fun. And if the only regulating influence is that Chaplains receive instruction when a Chapter is first made to preach a certain thing, well, that's not the strongest regulatory effort in existence...

Black Templars have fairly friendly ties with the Ministorum.

Harriticus wrote:Black Templars have fairly friendly ties with the Ministorum.

Where may we find this ?

Because IIRC the ecclesiarchy isn't so happy with the adeptus astartes belief system...
The Ministorum cares for the common man. They are busy enough collecting wealth and influence....oh wait should have said furthering the imperial cause by taking from the rich and giving to the richer...
The "spiritual wellbeing" of bazillions of humans is their duty. Need marines for this?

The Ministorum has the same ties as any other organization.
But if you want generally closely ties, you know the girls who love their boltguns and flamers and such.

From memory, Imperial Armour IX and X claim that the Fire Angels and Fire Hawks both worship the Emperor as a god, and enjoy close ties with the Ecclesiarchy. I'm sure there are other canonical examples, but those provide precedent enough to dream up a chapter of your own along similar lines.

No, the Ecclesiarchy would have too much of an issue with the Astartes belief system. Granted time enough has passed where some chapters might be more devoted than others, but they will never view him as a god. Read about the Word Bearers, that is exactly what they did and the Emperor pretty much bitch slapped them in front of the Ultramarines. If there was ever a Chapter who started worshiping the Emperor as a god again the Ultramarines and the Inquisition would quickly move to destroy them.

Depends on the chapter, its implied in the Ultramarines book that most of them have a low view of much of the zealous nature of the Church. Templars on the other hand, as said, are definetly believers and probably share many of the same doctrines. However, relations would not equal submission or subordination like iron Hands and mechanicum. They both have very close world views but they wouldn't give orders to the other. But yes, sisters of battle would probably love to fight alongside Balck Templars; make a change from being used as blood sacrifices.


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Bongfu wrote:No, the Ecclesiarchy would have too much of an issue with the Astartes belief system. Granted time enough has passed where some chapters might be more devoted than others, but they will never view him as a god. Read about the Word Bearers, that is exactly what they did and the Emperor pretty much bitch slapped them in front of the Ultramarines. If there was ever a Chapter who started worshiping the Emperor as a god again the Ultramarines and the Inquisition would quickly move to destroy them.

No, what happened to the Word Bearers was during the Horus Heresy when the Imperial mission was to create a virtuous but secular society under the Emperor. By the standards of the 41st millenium they would have been lauded for spelling out and spreading the faith by raising cathedrals. Worshipping the Emperor isn't like Christianity in the real world. Everyone believes it in the 41st millenium, even Kage, the murdering psycopath in Last Chancers and Ciaphus Cain don't question that fundamental even if they critique how nuts some of them are. The whole irony of the Word Bearers is that they were a fanatically loyal Legion but were spurned for having values that would come to be so venerated in the Imperium we know. Any chapter which worshipped the Emperor as a god would be seen as a good thing in the 41st millenium; the Inquisition doesn't press Chapters for being too devout.

The Galaxy is a big place.

Firstly, the word 'god' probably doesn't mean exactly what it means today, in the 41st Millenium. I think most Marine chapters would view the Emperor as divine in some way.

Secondly, the Ministorum is a hugely powerful organisation, with far reaching arms and all seeing eyes. I'm certain it would have a few Marine chapters that it has carefully cultivated, that owe favours to the Ecclesiarchy, or that are zealous enough in their belief and faith to be the lapdogs of the church.

Further, I can even imagine the Ecclesiarchy creating and maintaining their own Astartes. How hard would it be, really? If you know the right people in the right places, and convince them they are doing the Emperors work...

I think it would be really cool. It would be considered a necessity by the church, to protect their interests, and a heresy by the Inquisition, and an abomination by the other Astartes. Lots of room there for secrets, backstabbing, intrigue and espionage.

Kaldor wrote:The Galaxy is a big place.

Firstly, the word 'god' probably doesn't mean exactly what it means today, in the 41st Millenium. I think most Marine chapters would view the Emperor as divine in some way.

Secondly, the Ministorum is a hugely powerful organisation, with far reaching arms and all seeing eyes. I'm certain it would have a few Marine chapters that it has carefully cultivated, that owe favours to the Ecclesiarchy, or that are zealous enough in their belief and faith to be the lapdogs of the church.

Further, I can even imagine the Ecclesiarchy creating and maintaining their own Astartes. How hard would it be, really? If you know the right people in the right places, and convince them they are doing the Emperors work...

I think it would be really cool. It would be considered a necessity by the church, to protect their interests, and a heresy by the Inquisition, and an abomination by the other Astartes. Lots of room there for secrets, backstabbing, intrigue and espionage.

Very hard. You need the geneseed from the primarchs which in turn were only made because of the Emperors magic. No other race can make augmented soldiers for this sole reason. The Church has resources, probably enough to get geneseed, but I think the know how to the process of using the geneseed is a secret lore kept among the apothecaries of each chapter and handed to their successors. Even if they could get past that, the church was forbidden specifically from bearing any Men Under Arms after its High Lords insanity brought the galaxy to ruin. Since they cannot turn women into Adeptus Astartes (wonder woman? ) that pretty much rights a line under it. Otherwise the Inquisition, Imperial guard, mechanicus and every other Imperial faction would turn against the Ecclesiarch. They actually assasinated one cardinal for trying to make a private army of male soldiers. Also the Church isn't a surgical strike force, but like the mechanicus has a relatively large number of worlds and territories it has to administer and protect. This neccesiates a far larger froce than a few million space marines who need to be out crusading in the galaxy to be effective. Its thus the wrong type of force needed for the Church.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Depends on the chapter, its implied in the Ultramarines book that most of them have a low view of much of the zealous nature of the Church. Templars on the other hand, as said, are definetly believers and probably share many of the same doctrines. However, relations would not equal submission or subordination like iron Hands and mechanicum. They both have very close world views but they wouldn't give orders to the other. But yes, sisters of battle would probably love to fight alongside Balck Templars; make a change from being used as blood sacrifices.


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Bongfu wrote:No, the Ecclesiarchy would have too much of an issue with the Astartes belief system. Granted time enough has passed where some chapters might be more devoted than others, but they will never view him as a god. Read about the Word Bearers, that is exactly what they did and the Emperor pretty much bitch slapped them in front of the Ultramarines. If there was ever a Chapter who started worshiping the Emperor as a god again the Ultramarines and the Inquisition would quickly move to destroy them.

No, what happened to the Word Bearers was during the Horus Heresy when the Imperial mission was to create a virtuous but secular society under the Emperor. By the standards of the 41st millenium they would have been lauded for spelling out and spreading the faith by raising cathedrals. Worshipping the Emperor isn't like Christianity in the real world. Everyone believes it in the 41st millenium, even Kage, the murdering psycopath in Last Chancers and Ciaphus Cain don't question that fundamental even if they critique how nuts some of them are. The whole irony of the Word Bearers is that they were a fanatically loyal Legion but were spurned for having values that would come to be so venerated in the Imperium we know. Any chapter which worshipped the Emperor as a god would be seen as a good thing in the 41st millenium; the Inquisition doesn't press Chapters for being too devout.

They would be lauded by the Ecclesiarchy and the Administratum. However, other Astartes would be extremely weary of their zealous idea of a "god" Emperor. Even the Black Templars (arguably the closest to the Ecclesiarchy amongst the Astartes) do not worship him as a deity. In fact, all known chapters and original legions maintain that he was the greatest human who ever lived. Their devotion to him is a devotion to his idea of a galaxy free for humans to roam. The Emperor wanted a secular empire (probably to weaken and eventually destroy the Chaos gods). The Astartes still maintain this philosophy. The only reason they allow the Ecclesiarchy to fester is they do not have the numbers or the time to devote to running the Imperium. The Astartes were built for one purpose, that was war. While the Ultramarines have a pretty large empire it is only a fraction of the size of the Imperium and ironically I think the Astartes would agree that through blind faith the Imperium has survived thus long.

Really, I thought templars being crusaders meant that was a given. I mean they have a soldier who recieves visions from the Emperor and takes up sword to fight. As well as having 'vows', with which they fight and being described as 'zealous'. That very much hints at them having a religious nature IMO.

The beliefs of the space marines and the ecclesiarchy are quite different. This means unless you're using sisters of battle, you can't really have ecclesiarchial marines, unless you make your own, special, and shunned by other marines chapter.

Seeing how the iron hands revere the mechnaicus, I can see it as a possibility for ecclesiarchial marines, but only if the marines have a radically different belief system. Still, it's not something you could find in the fluff.

The argument of the Iron Hands is moot. As much as the Astartes mistrust the Adeptus Mechanicus, they understand that they are a necessary "evil" in order to produce and maintain their armories.

The Ecclesiarchy has no such benefit to the Space Marines. Chaplains do no train on Shrine Worlds, as Tech Marines go to Mars. In fact, just like the Inquisition, the Astartes have come at odds with the Ecclesiarchy over the years.

The Sisters of Battle are the Ecclesiarchial Marines.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Sisters of Battle are the Ecclesiarchial Marines.

, if they were they'd be 7ft tall and look like Wonder Woman/She Hulk without the green.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Sisters of Battle are the Ecclesiarchial Marines.

, if they were they'd be 7ft tall and look like Wonder Woman/She Hulk without the green.

I didn't say they're Astartes.

I was under the impression marines=adeptus astartes in the cant of 40k people

Totalwar1402 wrote:I was under the impression marines=adeptus astartes in the cant of 40k people

I apologize if i wasn't clear. I didn't mean SoBs have any biological similarities to Astartes but rather that they fill the tactical role of marines for the ecclesiarchy.

No, the church can't have Marine chapters of their own. The High Lords of Terra decide when and where to make new chapter, and even if the church has a man on the board his chances of getting his own marines are as close to zero as makes no difference. The edicts forbidding men-at-arms is taken seriously. The right to create marines is also taken seriously.

That's not to say they can't have close ties to some chapters... Black Templars, for instance, like to (re)conquer worlds and then leave them to the proper authorities. This means the church too... The BT are happy that proper order is restored and the church is happy for more worshipers.

The church is also very rich... they could surely outright buy a chapter's help if they wished. In time the relationship might become something almost like the Ecclesiarchy had marines - but they're officially independent, ofc.

Astartes, for the greater part, view the Emperor as a father figure, their ideals personified within a single person who they desire to emulate. Telling most Astartes that the Emperor is a God is a stupid thing to do - they don't like the Imperial Creed, not after the Emperor instructed humanity in the Imperial Truth which, obviously doesn't make the Ecclesiarchy too happy.

However there are Chapters with beliefs that run counter to that of their brother Chapters. Whether these beliefs are by nature of xenos origin, of barbaric/feral origin or have come about through rituals members of the Chapter conduct, there may be those who do believe in the Imperial Creed or do view the Emperor as a Divine God who must be worshipped.

Imerpial Armour 9: Badab Part 1 Page 90 The Fire Hawks chapter is about as close as you are going to get.

The have fought along the sisters in several wars of faith, have the support of the Ecclesiarchy, and are often sought out for aid by the Ministorum Synod and also Ordo Hereticus.

Some marine chapters do believe they are of line and comprimising the traditional indepence of the Chapters.

English Assassin wrote:From memory, Imperial Armour IX and X claim that the Fire Angels and Fire Hawks both worship the Emperor as a god, and enjoy close ties with the Ecclesiarchy.

Bongfu wrote:Granted time enough has passed where some chapters might be more devoted than others, but they will never view him as a god. Read about the Word Bearers, that is exactly what they did and the Emperor pretty much bitch slapped them in front of the Ultramarines. If there was ever a Chapter who started worshiping the Emperor as a god again the Ultramarines and the Inquisition would quickly move to destroy them.

Good reading comprehension there, well done.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Very hard. You need the geneseed from the primarchs which in turn were only made because of the Emperors magic. No other race can make augmented soldiers for this sole reason. The Church has resources, probably enough to get geneseed, but I think the know how to the process of using the geneseed is a secret lore kept among the apothecaries of each chapter and handed to their successors. Even if they could get past that, the church was forbidden specifically from bearing any Men Under Arms after its High Lords insanity brought the galaxy to ruin. Since they cannot turn women into Adeptus Astartes (wonder woman? ) that pretty much rights a line under it. Otherwise the Inquisition, Imperial guard, mechanicus and every other Imperial faction would turn against the Ecclesiarch. They actually assasinated one cardinal for trying to make a private army of male soldiers. Also the Church isn't a surgical strike force, but like the mechanicus has a relatively large number of worlds and territories it has to administer and protect. This neccesiates a far larger froce than a few million space marines who need to be out crusading in the galaxy to be effective. Its thus the wrong type of force needed for the Church.

Obviously it wouldn't be that easy, or everyone would be doing it. But thats a far step removed from 'impossible'. Every marine carries geneseed within him, and you only need one to start the process off. It'd be within the realms of possibility for the church to convince a few Astartes that it is the Emperors will that they help build a new chapter. Hell, it's even possible they simply convince the Astartes in question that the orders come directly from Terra!

I reckon it's a cool concept. Blacker than black secret troops!

Not gonna happen. First off, the doing so would undermine the balance of power in the Imperium, something the Inquisition (and since it would be in favor of the Ecclesiarchy, the Administratum and Mechanicus) would stop at nothing to prevent. Second: Astartes have a low opinion of the Ecclesiarchy, something the Inquisition quietly ignores. Third: Space Marines don't believe in gods. They acknowledge the existence of warp entities, but to them they are just malevolent, immaterial beings from other dimensions. Even though some Chapters' beliefs regarding the Emperor border on worship, Astartes venerate the Emperor as the Master of Mankind and as a perfect Human, and not as a god. Their Primarch is also held in almost equal regard. Regardless of the rants of the Ecclesiarchy, the Astartes will never worship the Emperor, something the Inquisition doesn't plan on doing anything about, since anything else would be too much trouble.

Kaldor wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:Very hard. You need the geneseed from the primarchs which in turn were only made because of the Emperors magic. No other race can make augmented soldiers for this sole reason. The Church has resources, probably enough to get geneseed, but I think the know how to the process of using the geneseed is a secret lore kept among the apothecaries of each chapter and handed to their successors. Even if they could get past that, the church was forbidden specifically from bearing any Men Under Arms after its High Lords insanity brought the galaxy to ruin. Since they cannot turn women into Adeptus Astartes (wonder woman? ) that pretty much rights a line under it. Otherwise the Inquisition, Imperial guard, mechanicus and every other Imperial faction would turn against the Ecclesiarch. They actually assasinated one cardinal for trying to make a private army of male soldiers. Also the Church isn't a surgical strike force, but like the mechanicus has a relatively large number of worlds and territories it has to administer and protect. This neccesiates a far larger froce than a few million space marines who need to be out crusading in the galaxy to be effective. Its thus the wrong type of force needed for the Church.

Obviously it wouldn't be that easy, or everyone would be doing it. But thats a far step removed from 'impossible'. Every marine carries geneseed within him, and you only need one to start the process off. It'd be within the realms of possibility for the church to convince a few Astartes that it is the Emperors will that they help build a new chapter. Hell, it's even possible they simply convince the Astartes in question that the orders come directly from Terra!

I reckon it's a cool concept. Blacker than black secret troops!

It's a Mary Sue concept is what it is. The Ecclesiarchy convincing Astartes that it's the Emperor's will for them to abandon their existing Chapter and begin a new one under the Ecclesiarchy's thumb is far-fetched enough to be considered impossible. One marine will not do, you'll need some proper gene-stock too. Also, why on earth would they use them? Why go to the trouble when you have thousands and thousands of Sisters of Battle to call upon, who have the same equipment but far more numbers? Not to mention how quick the Inquisition would be on it. Blacker than black secret troops aren't black enough to escape the attention of the for any long degree of time, by any stretch.

The closest you could get in my opinion is a very pious, stick-up-the-arse themed chapter who see him as equally God and ancestor, and who go into battle with flamers shouting 'cleanse the heretic' a lot, and who have candles on their candles on their shoulderpads with scrolls on their scrolls.

The Astartes are set apart from the rest of the Imperium, while they have some relations with the Mechanicum and sometimes the Guard and the Inquisition, they'll barely come into contact with the Ecclesiarchy unless one side accuses the other of some proper heresy. And then the fun ensues.

Tadashi wrote:Third: Space Marines don't believe in gods.

I'd like to see some proof here, as the name 'Word Bearers' spring to mind. It is generally accepted tha the normal belief amongst Space Marines is to venerate the Emperor as their ancestor and so on and so forth as opposed to a deity, but you seem to implying that current age Space Marines are either incapable of believing in deities anymore or that it is impossible that of the 1,000 unique Chapter beliefs and catechisms that even one of them sees the Emperor as God. I should point out that I'm not saying there is such a chapter, but I'd like to know what makes you so decisive in declaring that Space Marines are universally atheists.

GoldenKaos wrote:It's a Mary Sue concept is what it is.

Oh pish, you have no vision!

The Ecclesiarchy convincing Astartes that it's the Emperor's will for them to abandon their existing Chapter and begin a new one under the Ecclesiarchy's thumb is far-fetched enough to be considered impossible.

Play with the theme. Run it through all the variables. Examine it from all the angles.

What do you really need to build an Astartes chapter? You need geneseed, you need surgical facilities, and astartes equipment, and the knowledge to put it in place.

Where could you get those things? How? Why?

The answers are out there, and they are very plausible.

Not to mention how quick the Inquisition would be on it. Blacker than black secret troops aren't black enough to escape the attention of the for any long degree of time, by any stretch.

The Inquisition is not omnipotent, and the galaxy is a very, very large place. You could easily hide a troop producing facility. Besides, the challenge of Inquisitors snooping around and the Ecclesiarchy trying to keep them away is half the fun! It's all very cloak and dagger, secret agent, double agent, triple agent stuff. You can't see how that would be interesting?

Tadashi wrote:Space Marines don't believe in gods. They acknowledge the existence of warp entities, but to them they are just malevolent, immaterial beings from other dimensions

What is the 40K definition of a god? Is there even a single specific definition? If the Chaos 'gods' are simply powerful warp entities, then doesn't that definition also fit the Emperor?

Who tells the Astartes what the will of the Emperor is? I mean, they're always banging on about doing the Emperors work, following the will of the Emperor, blah blah blah... Where do they get all that from then? I mean, a charicature of a conversation between a priest and a marine could be:

Marine: "I'm doing the will of the Emperor!"
Priest: "No youre not"
Marine: "Are too"
Priest: "Are not!"

If the Astartes truly believe that the Emperor has a will, and that they should follow it, then they must have an opinion of what that will is, and who they can trust to interpret it for them.

Kaldor wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Space Marines don't believe in gods. They acknowledge the existence of warp entities, but to them they are just malevolent, immaterial beings from other dimensions

What is the 40K definition of a god? Is there even a single specific definition? If the Chaos 'gods' are simply powerful warp entities, then doesn't that definition also fit the Emperor?

Who tells the Astartes what the will of the Emperor is? I mean, they're always banging on about doing the Emperors work, following the will of the Emperor, blah blah blah... Where do they get all that from then? I mean, a charicature of a conversation between a priest and a marine could be:

Marine: "I'm doing the will of the Emperor!"
Priest: "No youre not"
Marine: "Are too"
Priest: "Are not!"

If the Astartes truly believe that the Emperor has a will, and that they should follow it, then they must have an opinion of what that will is, and who they can trust to interpret it for them.

That's what Chaplains are for. And the Mechanicus simply will not let it happen. Only they have what is needed to create a Chapter. And the other Chapters will never let it happen. As for the definition of god, yes, the 40k definition is loose, but the whole point of the matter is, for Space Marines, the Emperor is still Human, godlike in power and knowledge, but Human still for all that. They simply don't believe in gods.

Tadashi wrote:Second: Astartes have a low opinion of the Ecclesiarchy, something the Inquisition quietly ignores. Third: Space Marines don't believe in gods.

Oh really?

"The Fire Hawks have also long been notably strict adherents of the Cult Imperialis, believing in the Emperor's divinity... Such was the fervour of their faith that they became embroiled deeply in the wars of the Age of Apostasy..." Imperial Armour IX, p.69

"...they embrace the Imperial Creed as unassailable truth and see themselves as holy fighters in the God Emperor's service... they are both active and demonstrative in their faith... the Fire Hawks have fought successfully alongside the Adepta Sororitas and in numerous wars of faith..." Imperial Armour IX, p.90

English Assassin wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Second: Astartes have a low opinion of the Ecclesiarchy, something the Inquisition quietly ignores. Third: Space Marines don't believe in gods.

Oh really?

"The Fire Hawks have also long been notably strict adherents of the Cult Imperialis, believing in the Emperor's divinity... Such was the fervour of their faith that they became embroiled deeply in the wars of the Age of Apostasy..." Imperial Armour X, p.69

"...they embrace the Imperial Creed as unassailable truth and see themselves as holy fighters in the God Emperor's service... they are both active and demonstrative in their faith... the Fire Hawks have fought successfully alongside the Adepta Sororitas and in numerous wars of faith..." Imperial Armour X, p.90

Point taken.

But most Space Marines still have a low opinion of the Ecclesiarchy and don't believe in gods. And while the Inquisition tolerates Space Marines worshiping the Emperor on their own, they won't tolerate the Ministorum actively converting/creating their own Chapters. The first would plunge the Adeptus Astartes into civil war with the Ecclesiarchy and possibly the Mechanicus would join the non-Ecclesiarchy Chapters, and the second would alter the balance of power in the Imperium, so neither is gonna happen.

I've taken a look at the 5th edition Space Marine Codex now:

"Space Marine Chaplains care nothing for the ravings of the Ecclesiarchy and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult in favour of their own ancient traditions. [...] Whereas the Adeptus Ministorum has gradually extended its influence over the many thousands of individual cults that once existed throughout the galaxy, it has never been able to influence the Space Marine cults which remain as stubbornly individualistic today as they ever were."
- p58

As far as the Forgeworld books are concerned, keep in mind this wasn't written by the game developers at the studio and as such simply follows the personal interpretation of a different author, or group of authors. Given that 40k lacks any sort of canon, anybody would be free to favour FW books over GW Codices, however, or come up with their own stuff. Just see this as a reminder that there will be contradictions.

But once we're delving into the realm of speculation and interpretation, I will have to say that coming up with a Space Marine Chapter with strong Ecclesiarchal ties is rather easy, provided you're willing to dismiss the above aspect of the current Codex. It could even be a Chapter that was initially founded by the Church - just make it so that it was founded during the Age of Apostasy. Marine Geneseed is kept by the Adeptus Terra on Earth, and Vandire was Ecclesiarch and leading High Lord, so he could have easily have a Marine Chapter molded after his wishes by simply snapping his fingers. Just have it so that this Chapter's ties to the Church were cut following the Thorian Reformation in order to conform to the Decree Passive; its Chaplains would still continue to teach that the Emperor was a God, which would naturally make for a nice inofficial basis for a friendly relationship with the Ecclesiarch.

And then you can go and call that Chapter the "Red Templars".

Totalwar1402 wrote:Also the Church isn't a surgical strike force, but like the mechanicus has a relatively large number of worlds and territories it has to administer and protect. This neccesiates a far larger froce than a few million space marines who need to be out crusading in the galaxy to be effective. Its thus the wrong type of force needed for the Church.

For what it's worth, they would also need a far larger force than the Sisters of Battle to do so, at least if you go by the numbers provided by GW. Apart from their part-time role as intimidating or inspiring parade soldiers (i.e. playing symbols for the local Cardinal), the Orders Militant are an elite strike force in much the same vein as the Space Marines - actually even moreso as they do not have the same means for a prolonged campaign as the Space Marines do, whose ability in this is in turn dwarfed by the colossus of the Imperial Guard. It's why Battle Sisters only form the spearhead of a War of Faith, not the body.

Standard protection - excluding a honor guard for VIPs like your friendly neighborhood Cardinal or the few holy sites that are important enough to house a convent (meaning at least more important than the Basilica of Bladen that had to be defended by the Cadians) - is handled by the clergy itself, any Frateris Militia they may keep around or rally for the cause, as well as the local forces that are often under the Ecclesiarchy's religious influence (so much so that Imperial Guard regiments and Navy warships frequently volunteer for Church-only Crusades).

Tadashi wrote:That's what Chaplains are for. And the Mechanicus simply will not let it happen. Only they have what is needed to create a Chapter. And the other Chapters will never let it happen. As for the definition of god, yes, the 40k definition is loose, but the whole point of the matter is, for Space Marines, the Emperor is still Human, godlike in power and knowledge, but Human still for all that. They simply don't believe in gods.

Like I said, all you need is geneseed and someone who knows how to implant it. Any sufficiently knowledgable civilian surgeon could figure it out. The ecclesiarchy already has power armour for the Sororitas, and obviously are able to make repairs and adjustments to it. How hard to adjust some to fit Astartes?

Difficult, time consuming, and with a great need for secrecy. Sounds like an interesting story to me :-)

I consider the idea of the faith of the Astartes a seperate, but interesting topic. I don't think it's as clear cut as them not believing in gods. Obviously some chapters believe in the divinity of the Emperor, and some don't. It only makes sense that some chapters fall closer to the divine end of things, and some are the opposite, and even within chapters there will be a variation in religious belief.


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Lynata wrote:Marine Geneseed is kept by the Adeptus Terra on Earth, and Vandire was Ecclesiarch and leading High Lord, so he could have easily have a Marine Chapter molded after his wishes by simply snapping his fingers

Oh, cool. Theres lots of potential for stuff there. Maybe he sent a store of geneseed to a separate church controlled facility, or had his own chapter created, who knows? This is the sort of stuff I like about 40K, the unknown realm of possibility.