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HQ: Kharn the Betrayer

Elites:
4x MoK Terminators Champions with Dual Lightning Claws
(Landraider W/ Possesion as Dedicated Kharn on Board)

Troops:
Berzerkers x10 Fist Champion
Berzerkers x10 Fist Champion
Berzerkers x10 Fist Champion

Heavy Support:
Obliterators x2
Obliterators x2
Obliterators x2

Three pairs of oblits and an DP LR is not enough anti-T.

And the 3 crews of KBs foot slogging is bad too.

A rhino w/combi-metla here ... a Termie with combi-melta there, etc.

yeah scrap the termies, no point.
next put all the berserkers in rhinos if possible, that should get you moving in a better direction.

Ive seen the foot slogging khorne zerker list works really well

You really need Rhinos for all those Berzerker squads. They'll get shot to pieces trying to slog across the board.

The Terminator Deathstar eats up too many points for too little gain. I'd swap them for more Berzerkers and either Meltagun chosen or Termicide units.

I still think they don't need rhinos I'm pretty sure that the top chaos player at mechicon last year was ussing foot zerkers

And suddenly they had nothing to say...Well played, well played.

Wasn't that before venom spam, GK & Necrons?

I don't see how foot zerkers can work 'really well'.
Ok you've got 30 Power armour models, as well as your Land Raider and Oblits, means the enemy has targeting issues, but this is 1850, a lot of armies are going to have 3+ decent long range anti-tank options, which will also take down Oblits. Against armies such as GKs and venom spam, once your Zerkers are within 24" they are going to take some serious fire power in the face. Rhinos just mean you can move 12" first turn at least, without taking any casualties on your Zerker squads, with smoke and careful positioning, you can be getting cover saves as well.

I think if your going foot Zerkers, the Land Raider is not really going to help. I would rather have another squad of Zerkers to be honest.

rodgers37 wrote:I don't see how foot zerkers can work 'really well'.
Ok you've got 30 Power armour models, as well as your Land Raider and Oblits, means the enemy has targeting issues, but this is 1850, a lot of armies are going to have 3+ decent long range anti-tank options, which will also take down Oblits. Against armies such as GKs and venom spam, once your Zerkers are within 24" they are going to take some serious fire power in the face. Rhinos just mean you can move 12" first turn at least, without taking any casualties on your Zerker squads, with smoke and careful positioning, you can be getting cover saves as well.

I think if your going foot Zerkers, the Land Raider is not really going to help. I would rather have another squad of Zerkers to be honest.

3+ decent long range anti-tank options don't do well against footslogging infantry nor oblits in cover. Battlecannons don't work on oblits, and demolishers won't have range. If people focus fire the berzerkers they can probably kill a squad per turn, but then the obliterators will shred them.

Seems a well balanced list to me, lots of tough melee with str 9 fists that can wreck vehicles. A super killy assault squad in a land raider that can take out pretty much anything in the game. And a bunch of obliterators who can drop plasma templates or lascannons on anything scary.

It isn't the most effective chaos build, but its pretty good.

It was before necrons but the knights and venom spam had been out.

Just because an army doesnt look good on paper doesnt mean it wont table you.

Feeder_of_life wrote:Just because an army doesnt look good on paper doesnt mean it wont table you.

Sometimes it does mean that. It's pretty hard to table a competent player at 1850 with 3 squads of 10 power armor dudes, no matter how bad ass KB are; they aren't paladins. They're foot slogging, so they're crazy slow; they have no special defenses other than their faces; so if they get shot, that's where the bullets are going to land.

If you want foot slogging berserkers, run 50 of them and 9 Oblits with a winged demon prince. Commitment matters! 30 berserkers is cute, 50 berserkers is a problem; if nothing else, it will be a race for your opponent.

I'm sorry to say but I don't see paladins tabling to many people either and why do I need to table someone to win with 30 Zerkers?

I just to want know, you do see the MAJOUR weakness of lists like this right?
I'm not saying its a bad list, or is going to auto-lose, but you, so far at least, don't seem to have recognised that this is not a 'great' list, its good enough to win sometimes, but its not going to be easy against a high proportion of armies. (For example, what I imagine it would be best against, is other infantry heavy armies, but they are probably going to have more infantry mostly, which gives them advantages)

shadeyaces wrote:I'm sorry to say but I don't see paladins tabling to many people either and why do I need to table someone to win with 30 Zerkers?

A properly kitted out paladin unit is arguably the best in the game, you don't need to table someone but the point is that it would be hard to do.

Yea but I've seen basically the same list run and win with just 30 zerkers without rhinos the only real drifferents is that it has no landraider or termies and has 2 lash socercers and greater daemon and 9 obliterators.

shadeyaces wrote:I'm sorry to say but I don't see paladins tabling to many people either and why do I need to table someone to win with 30 Zerkers?

The problem with winning with 30 zerkers is you are kinda screwed in objective games. You don't have anything fast that can grab or contest on last turn, something empty rhinos are good at. You also don't have lash, which is great for late game objective shenanigans. So you basically have to table your opponent, or at least capture his objectives since you have no cheap troop to baby sit your own.

You can use the 30 zekrers to conga line across the battle field.

Paladin's are pretty terrible in my opinion..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i find it kind of funny how i put the words "Competitive List" and no one has any competitive Advice but when i put the words "FUN or Themed List" everyone has tons of competitive advice for me......i'm sorry but i find something idiosyncratic about that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you have to google that word please dont comment back. Trolol

If your gonna foot slog them, why not take huge blobs of em and lose some of the upgrades on those terminators?

Feeder_of_life wrote:Paladin's are pretty terrible in my opinion..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i find it kind of funny how i put the words "Competitive List" and no one has any competitive Advice but when i put the words "FUN or Themed List" everyone has tons of competitive advice for me......i'm sorry but i find something idiosyncratic about that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you have to google that word please dont comment back. Trolol

If Paladins are terrible, then everything in the Chaos codex is rubbish... Paladins are limited, but they are still an extremely good unit.

Your not really getting competitive advice, in fact their isn't much advice at all in this thread, its just arguing about wether the list is going to work or not...
You can't get 'competitive' with footsloggin Zerkers, even if someone did win a tournament with them. But you don't have Lash, which is going to help a lot, and you have for some reason a 4th really expensive infantry killing unit in the Terminators, that unit makes no sense in this list to be honest, you've got 30 Zerkers, what are they going to do after your Terminators and Kharn have already spent a turn or two ripping through infantry? They can perform slightly different jobs, but I think your just putting too much focus in one area, I would be tempted, in keeping the theme to go with a couple of CC weapon dreads or something (and then you've still got points left over)

Guys, leave him alone. It's a fun list, and I can see it working. He does need more anti-tank, but perhaps swapping out one of the LC termies for a chainfist/combi-melta termie would help? as would dropping the termie champ upgrades from them. you could buy a whole other termie for that, more or less.

The other option would be to use the LR to transport a berzerker squad with kharn? It'd work well with the assault vehicle rule. Dropping two of the obliterators for a squad of havocs could also help you quite a bit.

Just my two cents.

leave him alone?
He's asked for advice, and that is what he's getting, know one is having a go and saying his list is crap.
The whole term 'fun list' is a bit strange in my opinion, I don't play with uber competitive lists, every game I play, i'm playing for 'fun' its a hobby. I'm just trying to give him some advice, keeping along his khorne, foot themed list, to make it a little more able. It may very well win games how it is, I just don't see the Land Raider squad being useful when you've got the 30 foot zerkers.

Raptors could actually work here, 5 of them with a PF and MoK probably isn't too expensive, just adds a little more speed to the list, they can get ahead of the Zerkers, maybe take some of the fire away from them...

Well really, if you just want foot zerkers, scrap the termies and land raider and take 3 units of 20 with fist champs. There is no need to take units of 10 if you aren't taking rhinos, and no real reason to take a land raider in a foot slogging list. What is it going to do, rush ahead of everyone else and take a bright/dark lance or melta shot then have the terminators get torrented down while everyone else slogs slowly behind?

I didn't read where he said he wanted advice he put a fun list one he normally wouldn't run and every one jumped on him about how 30 zerkers not in rhinos is uncompetive and that he needs lash to win and stuff like that my 2 cents.
@rodgers37" If Paladins are terrible, then everything in the Chaos codex is rubbish... Paladins are limited, but they are still an extremely good unit." How is the chaos codex rubbish and can you tell me how the paladins are a good unit there to over priced for what they can do I feel that they fear any strengh 8 or high weapons ecspeail ap 2 or ap 1 ones and what makes them good because I feel that the chaos army has better troops with the zerkers are like 5 times better for there points than a paladin.

Well in my experience Berzerkers are no where near 5x better than Paladins for their points...

And I didn't say the Chaos codex is rubbish, I like the Chaos codex. But Paldains are not rubbish, far from it. May I ask how often you have played with and/or against them? Or even just seen them played?

S8, AP1 and 2 scares everything, everything expensive points wise as well. Paladins are expensive, but a good player will do just as well even with a Paladin Draigo wing, as someone could do with the above list...

Also, everyone didn't jump on him, read the thread again, and if you post a list on the army list section, its because you want advice on it. three or four people said take rhinos, and in this list he probably should, because its not a foot list because he has what around 600 points in that Land Raider squad, 6 Oblits. I like the idea of Zerkers on foot, as do others, but in this day and age it isn't the most effective build, and especially not when almost 1/3 of the list doesn't compliment the foot Zerkers. Whats the point in a 'fun' list if you have a very limited chance of winning, ok if he's going to never play standard all corners competitive lists then he stands a chance, but he didn't say that, in fact he said nothing about what he wanted, but people just gave advice on how to make the list more effective. Not uber competitive must win, do this, do that.

Ok saying that zerkers were 5 times better was a little much but I have played against paladins before and they don't seem to be worth there points and with the spam of strengh 8 they don't seem to be worth there pts in my own opion I just think there to overpriced for there pts. But I think the idea of him making this fun list was because he has no intent on actually playing this list and I know feeder of life and I know he doesn't play chaos. So he made a fun list for the fun of making one.

How do i turn this thread off? lol

Well if he had said that in the OP it would have been nice, if your going to post a list (even if you say 'fun', which essentially ever list/game apart from very competitive waac lists/games should be), you should expect comments, if you didn't want comments, why did you post the list? And if you don't play Chaos, would have been a good idea to say that...

Not trying to have a go, but its just you've posted a army list, in the army list section, some people post lists and don't get any/more responses and get quite annoyed, you've posted one and got loads of responses and you don't like it? All you've got is advice, I don't think people have really been saying its a crap list, but then if your never going to play it, does that really matter?

As for Paladins, i've seen them work well as a big squad with Draigo and Librarian (with +1 to cover save, they are very hard to take down even with S8 if they stick to area terrain as much as possible, and when they reach your line they rip through everything easily, plus Psycannon and storm bolter fire is taking down stuff on the way) and have recently seen someone use 4 or 5 in a Stormraven, which is very expensive, but not mean't to be especially competitive, you might say its a 'fun' list turbo boosting that into the enemy's force is also pretty devastating. Berzerkers are good, but they can't assault from a Rhino, unless it stays still, Land Raiders are expensive and i'm not sure if Zerkers can really do the damage in quite a few games to justify the Land Raider expense (unless the Land Raider then does something good after delivering the Zerkers). But they are good in combat, and aren't too expensive, but nowadays there are just quite a few more decent CC units (Stealers and Deathcults for a start)