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Hey Dakka, I was looking through the articles section of the site and noticed that to Tyranid tactics and unit reviews are out of date. So I decided to make this thread to discuss updating and the material of that update.

EDIT: One tactic I like is a modified version of Blitzkrieg, you divide your forces up between two groups with every nasty creation you can think of on one side and the rest on the other. The big nasty group will then run to your rivals board edge slaughtering everything in their way, and then hooking back across the enemy line decimating everything and coming back to the main force.

Read this thread;

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

The reason most of the Tyranid articles are out of date is because Tyranid are not a competitive army. You'll find this is true with Demons, SoB and a handful of other armies as well.

So does that mean that since they are not considered competitive that those who play them regularly shouldn't continuously be exchanging tactics and keeping an articles of how to use modern?

No, it mainly means that there isn't much point. DE and GK are both armies comprised almost entirely of hard-counters . "Pray SitW stops 'em" is not the most valuable bit of tactical advice.

But, there is the above-mentioned thread, and a thread on fighting DE (not that that one helped much) is kicking around here somewhere.

broodstar wrote:So does that mean that since they are not considered competitive that those who play them regularly shouldn't continuously be exchanging tactics and keeping an articles of how to use modern?

It just means that almost no one with any skill cares because playing Nids perfect is pointless when you can play SW/GK/IG not-perfectly and do better.

I'm currently playing Tyranids and love the challenge. If everyone played GK-IG-SW it'd be really boring. They aren't top tier but they are actually pretty good in my opinion.

-666- wrote:I'm currently playing Tyranids and love the challenge. If everyone played GK-IG-SW it'd be really boring. They aren't top tier but they are actually pretty good in my opinion.

Agreed, I love the Tyranids, and I wish more people played xenos. I'm getting tired of eating space puppies!

Once I finish up my eldar army, tyranids was the direction I was planning on going. I've found the very fact that they are considered lower tier can make them more competitive. I've seen people misjudge them and find themselves getting eaten.

As an eldar player I've found it a pain to deal with screens of Gargoyles providing cover for the MCs behind them. Since Carnifexs and hive tyrants and such can hide behind them as cover it becomes quite the pain to decide which to target.

Tyranids can be competitive, their main problem is 3 of the most popular armies, SW, GK and DE are very very hard to beat, and probably require tailoring and being a pretty decent player.

Tervigons, Hive Guard and Genestealers are all pretty awesome units, you've then got other things you can build a pretty solid list around like Trygons, Swarmlord or even Tyrannofexs.

When I start playing Nids soon (have played a few games in the past with a friends army) i'm going to start with Stealer Spam, and by that I mean pretty much all stealers (probably two Tervigons as HQ, couple of Ymgarl squads, and three big stealer squads at 1750.) i'm sure it won't be the best list ever, but I think it can be pretty effective, making use of infiltrating or outflanking. Depending on what I am facing, infiltrating the three stealer squads will probably be my main way of deployment (my friend who plays two squads of 14 stealers, always does this, with two Tervigons to give FNP, they are very hard to kill in cover), will probably only have two squads with Toxin sacs, that will be slightly smaller, with a Broodlord in each, they will get the FNP from my two Tervigons, and the other squad will be used to help get cover to the other two squads, giving the opponent a targeting dilemma, wether to try and take down/weaken the two more killy squads with broodlords, or get rid of the big squad of 20, which may or may not be (half) in area terrain.

Ymgarls will then join in and hopefully kill something each on arrival. This list will obviously really suffer against Land Raiders (especially if there is more than one) (and Monoliths I suppose, haven't seen anyone take them in new codex yet though). And still face the usual problems against GKs and DE.

I would quite like some people's advice/experiences with three other types of lists I am also planning on trying out at some point in the (probably distant) future, Swarmlord based, Tyrannofex based and reserve based.

rodgers37 wrote:Tyranids can be competitive, their main problem is 3 of the most popular armies, SW, GK and DE are very very hard to beat, and probably require tailoring and being a pretty decent player.

Tervigons, Hive Guard and Genestealers are all pretty awesome units, you've then got other things you can build a pretty solid list around like Trygons, Swarmlord or even Tyrannofexs.

When I start playing Nids soon (have played a few games in the past with a friends army) i'm going to start with Stealer Spam, and by that I mean pretty much all stealers (probably two Tervigons as HQ, couple of Ymgarl squads, and three big stealer squads at 1750.) i'm sure it won't be the best list ever, but I think it can be pretty effective, making use of infiltrating or outflanking. Depending on what I am facing, infiltrating the three stealer squads will probably be my main way of deployment (my friend who plays two squads of 14 stealers, always does this, with two Tervigons to give FNP, they are very hard to kill in cover), will probably only have two squads with Toxin sacs, that will be slightly smaller, with a Broodlord in each, they will get the FNP from my two Tervigons, and the other squad will be used to help get cover to the other two squads, giving the opponent a targeting dilemma, wether to try and take down/weaken the two more killy squads with broodlords, or get rid of the big squad of 20, which may or may not be (half) in area terrain.

Ymgarls will then join in and hopefully kill something each on arrival. This list will obviously really suffer against Land Raiders (especially if there is more than one) (and Monoliths I suppose, haven't seen anyone take them in new codex yet though). And still face the usual problems against GKs and DE.

I would quite like some people's advice/experiences with three other types of lists I am also planning on trying out at some point in the (probably distant) future, Swarmlord based, Tyrannofex based and reserve based.

Another way to go about a stealer army is 2 Tyrants, 1 Tyrant with +1 to reserves and Swarmlord so as that you re-roll your outflank table edge. So your opponent has genestealers running in, genestealers outflanking, Ymgarl coming out of terrain right beside him, Swarmlord coming up (and he's a big target and will likely draw fire, but once all your stealers are in, who cares!) And another Tyrant staying back to provide control for Tyrannofexes with big anti-tank guns.

broodstar wrote:Another way to go about a stealer army is 2 Tyrants, 1 Tyrant with +1 to reserves and Swarmlord so as that you re-roll your outflank table edge. So your opponent has genestealers running in, genestealers outflanking, Ymgarl coming out of terrain right beside him, Swarmlord coming up (and he's a big target and will likely draw fire, but once all your stealers are in, who cares!) And another Tyrant staying back to provide control for Tyrannofexes with big anti-tank guns.

That's a lot of points to put into a pair of units that don't really mesh with the rest of your army and are too fragile by themselves, all just for 2+ reserves on turn 2. This is just a hunch, but I suspect such a list wouldn't be nearly as competitive against most opponents as a traditional Stealer Shock army. If you have the Swarmlord, a Hive Tyrant and at least 2 Tyrannofexes, that doesn't leave you nearly enough points for enough Stealers to overwhelm the enemy, unless you're playing a big game where your big bugs will go down even quicker. I think Tervigons are a better choice to support stealers, and although a single +1 to Reserves Tyrant would be effective two is just overkill.

At our game shop we do 2000 points and up, we will go smaller for a noobie of course, but its rare that we do anything smaller.

Swarmlord is awesome, but his brood is 500 points. I believe he's used in big games (say 2000 or more). The Swarmlord, his guard, a +1 reserve tyrant and 2 tfexes /w rupture cannons = 1200 points. The rest you fill up with stealers.

I'd agree with people when they say Nids aren't top-tier, but tbh, they're still pretty good.

As for tactics I use, I like to divide my army up into two sections. The first consists of stuff that can, for one reason or another, close with the enemy really quickly, such as Trygons and Genestealers. Whilst they're causing havoc and distracting the enemy, the slower part of my force, comprising mostly of gaunts and warriors, can cross the battlefield relatively unharmed.

The Shadow wrote:I'd agree with people when they say Nids aren't top-tier, but tbh, they're still pretty good.

As for tactics I use, I like to divide my army up into two sections. The first consists of stuff that can, for one reason or another, close with the enemy really quickly, such as Trygons and Genestealers. Whilst they're causing havoc and distracting the enemy, the slower part of my force, comprising mostly of gaunts and warriors, can cross the battlefield relatively unharmed.

I think a good thing about top-tier armies is that your not punished for your mistakes, the bad thing about top-tier armies is your not punished for your mistakes.

That's a really cool tactic but, I wonder about your synapse. Wouldn't that stretch your synapse too thin?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK guys, it looks like the thread is starting to slip down the forum so there is only one thing I'd like to get from you. Can can as many of you as possible please give your opinion on weather each unit should do a competitive list, a semi-competitive list, or a casual list

Hive Tyrant / competitive
Swarmlord / semi-competitive
Tyrant guard / competitive
Tervigon / competitive
Tyranid Prime / casual
Parasite of Mortrex / casual
Hive Guard / competitive
Lictor / casual
Deathleaper / casual
Venomthrope / semi-competitive
Zoanthrope / competitive
Doom of Malan'tai / casual
Pyrovore / casual
Ymgarl Genestealer / semi-competitive
Warrior / casual
Genestealer / competitive
Mycetic Spore / competitive
Termagant / semi-competitive
Hormagaunt / semi-competitive
Ripper / casual
Shrike / casual
Ravener / semi-competitive
Sky-slasher / casual
Gargoyle / competitive
Harpy / semi- competitive
Spore mine / casual
Carnifex / semi-competitive
Old One Eye / casual
Biovore / competitive
Trygon / competitive
Mawloc / semi-competitive
Tyrannofex / semi-competitive

I'll put my thoughts down to the units as I play them. N/A means I haven't used them or used in only one or two games. That's too little to form a good opinion I think. In my area I play against mostly MEQ or IG.

Hive Tyrant / competitive for reserve bonus and if given wings and a gargolye screen can survive to hit the enemy lines

Swarmlord / N/A
Tyrant guard / N/A
Tervigon / N/A

Tyranid Prime / competitive He's good to use with another model like a Venomthrope to increase the cover range or with Carnifex to give a cover save. Remeber that half the unit has to be in cover so plop that Prime in 4+ and the Canrifex gets it too.

Parasite of Mortrex / N/A

Hive Guard / competitive. I've used in pairs as triplets of one unit is easier to kill than two units of two. Also you can shoot another tank whereas with 1 unit of three it's overkill.

Lictor / N/A
Deathleaper / N/A

Venomthrope / semi-competitive to competitive. One with a Prime or a unit of two behind the gribblies (either gaunts or gants) can give another turn of closing with your targets.

Zoanthrope / competitive I walk them for synapse or DS in a spod to get at the IG parking lots. I usually take them in pairs or three strong as the elites slot is full of goodness.

Doom of Malan'tai / N/Al
Pyrovore / N/A
Ymgarl Genestealer / semi-competitive Situational as to placement. Most times it's a terrrain piece near the parking lot. Other times I enjoy the shock value of picking terrain on my side and counter charging DP Sternguard.

Warrior / casual I used to run them CC kitted with a BS/WL Prime and run towards the enemy but too many str 8 weapons leave these guys at home. In friendlier games I make them shooty and babysit the home obj.

Genestealer / competitive Smaller unit with a broodlord to pick on certain ICs or larger units to get at the 'metal bawkses'. They rarely survive long though as lots of armies pack flame templates

Mycetic Spore / competitive I like putting several devgants spods on the table and wiping Long Fangs or other heavy weapon units in one round of shooting

Termagant / semi-competitive to competitive And to continue that thought with Spods, 12-20 in a pod with devourers is just mean with the number of dice you roll. Plus for each unit you can grab a tervigon in the troops section. I put N/A for the above tervigon slot because I haven't played with it enough/it hasn't lasted longer than 1-2 turns: It is a huge fire magnet.

Hormagaunt / semi-competitive to competitive I feel flanking a 20 strong unit from a tyrant is super effective. I almost always run them with poison and sometimes make a super unit with Adrenal glands to reroll on the charge. As mentioned I see lots of MEQ armies and it does make a difference to nearly wiping those 10 Berserkers so you don't get shot up on their turn. Math hammer says 60 attacks on the charge,1/3 hit makes 20, reroll 1's make 30. 30 hits becomes 15 on the posion 4+ and reroll about 21 wounds. Marine saves 2/3s and so I expect 5-7 dead marines with 5-3 staying in combat. Fearless might take the remaining but anecdotal saves those wounds and I'm stuck in. (this is quick math on berserkers so I could be wrong but that's about what I've done when I run this unit.

Ripper / casual
Shrike / casual
Ravener / N/A
Sky-slasher / N/A

Gargoyle / competitive Good screen and when deepstruck I feel can put out some good shooting
Harpy / N/A
Spore mine / N/A

Carnifex / semi-competitive Double brain worm devourer can stall tanks or just make the marines roll plenty of dice. Some have to die right? In a spod I have tried CC and shooty and both seemed lackluster.

Old One Eye / casual A wary general will look at One Eye and write off whatever tank he's near but throw on too many wounds for regen and his high point cost don't justify him.

Biovore / N/A

Trygon / N/A Haven't proxied or bought the model proper yet.

Mawloc / N/A

Tyrannofex / Causal. Too expensive in my opinion for a BS 3 shooter. Plus he needs synapse which will likely be near the other units closer to the enemy. Maybe him and some shooty warriors but I haven't seen other Nid players use this unit.

Hope this helps. My armies haven't won awards but then BA, SW, GK, and IG are what I see most of at the FLGS. There are some other armies but marines seem to carry the day/ what I fight in tournies more often than not.

broodstar wrote:Doom of Malan'tai / casual

Really, I've always quite liked Doom of Malan'Tai. You can stick him in a mysetic spore, drop him down near the enemy and cause some serious damage with spirit leech and cataclysm, all for 90pts +spore. I think that the main problem is that he is competing with Hive Guard in the Elites slots, the reason he isn't seen isn't because he's a bad or uncompetitive unit, it is simply because Hive Guard are better.

He seems really neat on paper but lets look at him closer. spirit leach has a range of only 6' and it's a leadership save with the MEQ being an 8 there is a 44.4 repeating percent chance they will pass. Plus he's toughness 4, and with the threat he poses that is begging for a nullzone krak missile. So is it worth it to spend 130 points for 1 shot that can be psychic hooded.

He works fine when I use him, he seems to make his points back and a bit more if the deep strike works well, as you can tend to get quite a few models within his 6" radius. Although S8+ isn't very nice to him, he does tend to pick up a few wounds from leech to help keep him alive. Also, Spirit leech makes units take leadership checks on 3d6 and as the average roll off 3d6 is 10.5 units tend to be failing them quite a bit more frequently.

So, here goes: HQ!

HQ:

Hive Tyrant Semi-competitive
A big, scary monster with a bunch of support abilities. Good WS, I, and average monstrous creature stats. Synapse, SitW. Has access to the very useful Paroxysm power, as well as a couple others. Biggest reasons to take him are the Ancient Adversary and Hive Commander special abilities, which turn it from just another MC to a useful swarm leader. However, it is very expensive, slow, and fairly fragile. You can give it armored shell or a hive guard bodyguard, but that makes it even more expensive. Same with wings to make it faster.

Tyrant Guard Semi-competitive
Here to increase the durability of your Hive Tyrant. Don't surrender Kill Points. Expensive.

Swarmlord Competitive
Like a Hive Tyrant, but better WS, I and more wounds. +50% cost. Hands out special rules, has an invulnerable save, can use multiple psychic powers, and has boosted synapse range. Biggest weakness is it's cost and low speed.

Tyranid Prime Competetive
Cheapest Tyranids HQ, with a base cost half that of most of the others. Even Heavily upgraded will still be the cheapest choice. However, it provides the least support for the rest of your army. Will buff warriros significantly, but other than that provides little. Can, however, have interesting applications with carnifexes.

The Parasite of Mortrex Non-competitive
A model devoted to creating ripper swarms. Is an independent character. Really only good for fast Synapse support, otherwise it just spawns kill points. If it could add new rippers to other units, it might be worth considering, but as it is, it kinda sucks.

Tervigon Competitive
This guy is rather nifty, for two reasons. The ability to hand out FNP to friendly units is the cornerstone of many Tyranid strategies. Also creates and supports new scoring units. Can expand Synapse to 18", but you'd probably be better off using catalyst in almost all situations. Possably the best HQ choice.

@Crazy_Carnifex

I agree with that alot. Except I don't believe the Prime is all that useful, yes he's an independent character but as aggressive an army as the Tyranids are I don't think he's going to be going alot of damage.

I think for nids to be effective they have to max sitw and try to max out their mobility. WHat I mean with mobility is I have seen some players who were successful with nids in tournaments and most of them have doom ds, genestealers both varity, and basically have several ways to strike you. The typical hq is swarmlord. to help doom or the genestealers.

Doom is very hit or miss. I would rather use the points for Hive Guard, Zoies or Yrmgarl.

I think that the doom really depends upon what kind of list you would like to build. If you're going purely with the Tervigons, maybe he's not a great fit into that, as you are going to want the Hive Guard. But when you're taking a Genestealer list, he's something to consider.

mrwhoop wrote:
Tyrannofex / Causal. Too expensive in my opinion for a BS 3 shooter. Plus he needs synapse which will likely be near the other units closer to the enemy. Maybe him and some shooty warriors but I haven't seen other Nid players use this unit.

If you are keeping your Tfex back like a peice of artillery. In 90% of battle situations you are using it wrong.

Tfex should be on the front lines in most situations, unless you are purposely out-ranging something. They are quite capable on the front lines. and at close range can fire 3 weapons AND still assault.

The Thorax swarm is a Template, and does not miss. it's just a matter of choosing ammo
the str 5 ap 5 vs guard, eldar, Genestealer swarms to break their armour.
the 2+ poison ammo versus MEQ, Necrons, Fire Warriors, Gaunts or Ork's to maximize wounds.
the Str 3 Rending Ammo versus Terminators or Tough FNP abusers to try and force the invulnerable save/negate FNP

Also if BS 3 bugs you too much on the Stinger Salvo 18" str 5 ap 4 assault 4 try using the free upgrade to cluster spines. with a large blast Str 5 ap - it's hard to miss your mark, considering direct hit is a 50% chance on Scatter and the size of the template will often ensure a couple hits on scatter.

Rupture cannon is still a good weapon even at BS 3. it will almost always land at least 1 hit, which versus any vehicle has a great chance to damage. Sure it's not a Rail Gun, but Railgun users cant typically move, shoot and assault all in the same turn.

Elites!

Hive Guard Highly Competitive
Probably the only must-have unit in the Tyranids 'dex. It's just better than anything else the 'Nids have at what it does. With a 30" threat range, no need for line of sight, and almost no chance for cover for vehicles, these guys are the go-to guys for destroying light armour. While not much good vs AV13+, those models generally cost enough to make it worth sending MC's after them. Hive guard are also good enough in the assault to pin down a non-designated unit (say, tac squad without a p. fist) if necessary. Unless your local meta is extremely light on vehicles, you want at least one squad, probably two, and possibly three.

Lictor Non-competetive
Despite being (fluff-wise) one of my favorite Tyranid units, these guys frankly suck. Firstly, they are competing against Hive Guard. Secondly, they cost more than Hive Guard. Thirdly, their abilities are kinda useless. Their reserves bonuses do not come into play until the turn after they arrive, meaning that they don't help for at least one turn. Their "place anywhere" ability is useful... until the enemy shoots them, or moves away, or, or, or. There are flesh hooks, but... Hive Guard do it better for AT, and there are better options for AI. In short, a lot of wasted potential.

Deathleaper Semi-Competitive
A lictor that plays games with your enemies army.k For a cost. better in a fight than a normal lictor, it also allows you to reduce a targets Ld (useful vs. psykers) and slows down nearby enemies difficult terrain tests. Can also pop around the battlefield at will. Better than a Lictor, but that ain't saying much.

Venomthrope Semi-Competitive
These guys hand out 5+ cover saves, and make it difficult to assault nearby units. Have poisoned (2+), making them good in close combat. However, they are fairly fragile, and will be one of the first things shot at. As is usual for elites, are competing against hive guard.

Zoanthrope Competitive
Tyranids second ranged AT unit. Better vs AV13+, and against massed Meq. Synaptic. However, because they have fairly few shots, and a lot of roles to make, are likely going to fall short of expectations, especially due to short range. Good for a 3rd elites choice, they lack the reliability of Hive Guard, but fortunately occupy slightly different niches, so may still see the light of day, as they are really the only way to reliable knock out high armour at over 18".

The Doom of Malen'tai Competitive
I regard the Doom as a one-shot terror weapon. Against a gunline, drop it somewhere, suck a few wounds, fire a decent strength shot at the enemies rear armour, and then watch as his formation disintegrates to get away from the doom. The Doom and it's spod then probably absorb a few shots, and die. Near useless vs a heavily meched army, but great against anything else. Also suicide SitW.

Pyrovore Bwahahahahahaha!
Oh, mister Cruddace, you make funny joke.

Ymgarls Genestealers Competitive
What Lictors should have been. Secretly hide them anywhere, jump out and kill something when you arrive. Carefully use their mutation abilities to maximize impact. The Cthulu-stealers are another great third choice elites unit. Because they are "committed" after your opponent deploys, you cn easily tell exactly where to put them.

I would go as far as to put hive guards: mandatory. (unless you are going full ymghal + genestealers)

The best Tyranids tactics I can think of is to try as hard as you can to make your opponents not play GK or DE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

broodstar wrote:
Agreed, I love the Tyranids, and I wish more people played xenos. I'm getting tired of eating space puppies!

Agreed, but what the game really needs is more Ork players. More Ork players can only make the game more fun.

broodstar wrote:

The Shadow wrote:I'd agree with people when they say Nids aren't top-tier, but tbh, they're still pretty good.

As for tactics I use, I like to divide my army up into two sections. The first consists of stuff that can, for one reason or another, close with the enemy really quickly, such as Trygons and Genestealers. Whilst they're causing havoc and distracting the enemy, the slower part of my force, comprising mostly of gaunts and warriors, can cross the battlefield relatively unharmed.

That's a really cool tactic but, I wonder about your synapse. Wouldn't that stretch your synapse too thin?

I make sure I have Synapse Creatures in both sections. You do have to be careful, because your opponent has to kill less stuff to dismantle your Synapse links in each section.

Agreed I like to have 1 synapse brood per 500 points.

Troops

Tyranid Warriors Semi-Competitive
Warriors are one of two synaptic troop choices. They have lots of wounds, low toughness, and are moderately expensive. They can be upgraded to serve as fire support, or can be built as vicious close-quarters fighters. They are also one of only a couple Tyranid units capable of being built for multiple roles, As a unit with bone swords and devourers can both fight and shoot. However, on paper they are rather to susceptible to instant death. In game, I have found that they tend to be overlooked by the enemy, in favour of monstrous creatures. Strong, but not the best choice in the army.

Genestealers Competitive
Kill anything they catch, outflank, and die to a stiff breeze. Capable of multi-assaulting several units into oblivion at once. They work whether you run them as elite support or the bulk of your army. I generally simply infiltrate them, unless I am running the Swarmlord, at which point they become much more viable outflanking.

Termagants Competitive
Cannon fodder at its finest. A minimum-sized ten-strong unit is great as it provides another scoring unit for just 50 points. It also allows tervigons as troops. Alternately, you can take the glass-hammer approach, and run them all as Devilgaunts, with devourers, for formidable ranged firepower, although this doubles the cost.

Hormagaunts Semi-Competitive
A decent unit, limited by the cost of their upgrades. Adrenal Glands are only good when charging, and toxin sacks are useless vs vehicles. It costs ten points to get a 'gaunt with both, at which point you may as well buy a genestealer. Tend to be outshone by other choices, if you find yourself facing a lot of guard, Tau or similar armies Hormi's are great ablative close-combat screens, but they tend to be out-competed by other Tyranid options.

Rippers Non-competitive
Cheap wounds which don't provide cover saves, and suffer vs instant-death and blast. Will probably lose combat, and disintegrate to no-retreat. Also are to stupid to live without synapse. They also aren't scoring. There is no reason to take these. They do, however, make excellent wound markers for your monsters.

Tervigon Competitive
Everything I said about the HQ applies, but now scoring!