Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Played Poddy last night, trying a slightly different Purifier Order list. Here we go:

Grey Knights "Purifier Order" - 2,000 points

HQ

Castellan Crowe

Elite

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons, psybolt ammo & searchlight
Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons, psybolt ammo & searchlight


Troops

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer


Heavy Support

Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons, psybolt ammo & searchlight
Dreadnought - 2 x autocannons, psybolt ammo & searchlight

Tau - 2,000 points

HQ

Shas'El - missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker
Bodyguard - missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker
Shas'El - missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker

Bodyguard - missile pod, plasma rifle & multi tracker
Elites

2 x Crisis Battlesuits - 2 x missiles pods, 2 x plasma rifles & 2 x multi trackers
2 x Crisis Battlesuits - 2 x missiles pods, 2 x plasma rifles & 2 x multi trackers
2 x Crisis Battlesuits - 2 x missiles pods, 2 x plasma rifles & 2 x multi trackers

Troops

6 x Fire Warriors
6 x Fire Warriors
11 x Kroot - 2 x kroot hounds
11 x Kroot - 2 x kroot hounds

Fast Attack

6 x Pathfinders w/ Devilfish - Devilfish w/ disruption pod
6 x Pathfinders w/ Devilfish - Devilfish w/ disruption pod
Piranha - fusion gun & target array

Heavy Support

3 x Broadsides Battlesuits - team leader w/ target lock & 2 x shield drones
Hammerhead - 2 x burst cannons & disruption pod
Hammerhead - 2 x burst cannons & disruption pod

Pre-game Analysis

Right, railguns worry me (as always!) as they can open up my Rhinos very easily and won't have much problems against my Dreadnoughts, plus they can keep their distance. The missiles pods will also be a problem, if Poddy uses his markerlights first on a Rhino, then with good dice, he should open a couple of Rhinos up a turn. The Tau army has less shooting, but longer range. So I am going to have to move out quickly.

Game: Seize Ground + Pitched Battle

Deployment

Poddy wins the roll off and deploys first. He places his army so it is mirrored across his table edge, so Kroot in a ruin each on each flank, then a Hammerhead supported by a Devilfish, Broadsides at the front between the vehicles with all other suits behind the Broadsides or vehicles. Piranha is in reserve and Fire Warriors behind the Devilfish.

I deploy all my units on the right flank, there is the big shrine ruin in the centre which should give me some cover. I deploy Rhinos at the front, Dreadnoughts behind and Crowe cowers away inside a ruin.

Objectives had been placed two on my left flank and then the three spread across Poddy's table edge, of course all 12" from the table edge and other objectives

* Tactical Notes

It may sound weird I have deployed on the right flank, though the shrine gives me the best cover options. To be fair the furthest away a objective is from me on the left flank is 12", so I can easily get it later. If I work on getting that objective I just mentioned, one by the shrine and one top right then I should be ok. If I am lucky I could get the other one on the left flank if I bail out a unit and run to it later, will see.

Target priority will be anything with a railgun, Dreadnoughts will blast these. Psycannons will target the Battlesuits. In time and if I get close enough, I will bail out and unleash the force on those Battlesuits and cleansing flame on any of the normal infantry units.

Turn 1

I try to seize the initiative and I get a 6! Always good to get some shooting in before Tau

So, my first turn then. I move up all Rhinos 6" using the three front ones to give cover to the ones at the back best I can. In turn the back Rhinos give cover to the Dreadnoughts.

Shooting; I blast the closest Hammerhead with psycannons and score weapon destroyed, that will do nicely, the rear Rhinos are out of range. I blast one Dreadnought at the supporting Devilfish to the now railgun-less Hammerhead and disruption pod makes the save. Broadsides get blasted by three Dreadnoughts, the first two Dreadnoughts only take out a shield drone, though the last Dreadnought seems to have a impact and Poddy rolls 3 1's in a row and now only a single Broadside remains - the suit fails morale and runs back, though is destroyed by his own unit.

Tau's turn; The Hammerhead moves 12" towards me to act as a minor speed bump. Both Pathfinders bail out the Devilfish and move into position in terrain while the Fire Warriors jump in. All Crisis Suits move together in one big suit blob and come towards me.

Shooting; the last railgun on the boad gets some revenge and knocks out the Dreadnought which butt raped the Broadsides. Missile pods and plasma rifles fire at Rhinos and the only damage is shaken.

* Tactical Notes

At first I was disappointed that my three rear Rhinos were out of range. Looking back, I don't think I've done too bad. Only one railgun now remains, though I can't take all the credit and must thank Poddy's poor dice rolls.

Next turn I'll move up and torrent the Suits with autocannons and psycannons, any psycannons will go into the Pathfinders.

Turn 2

I attempt to cast fortitude on the shaken Rhino and roll double 6, the tank is shaken again. Instead I bail out the squad and sent them towards the Hammerhead which is right in front of me. I roll up the remaining Rhinos (pop smoke on the shaken one) and the Dreadnoughts hold position.

Shooting; couple of psycannons and autocannons blast the Crisis Suits, Poddy has hid them well when he jumped them away in the assault phase, I only managed to put a wound on one unit and kill the Bodyguard with a Shas'El. I fire one unit at the Pathfinders, though they are out of range, so I fire all remaining psycannons at the Hammerhead hoping to immobilise it, best I can do is stun it. Dreadnoughts fire at the Devilfish (not that I really want to) and disruption pods make the save.

Assault; Purifers charge the Hammerhead and cast hammer, one psyscannon dude hits but fails to do any damage. Hammers do better and wreck it.

Tau turn; Kroot on the right flank come out to rapid fire my exposed Purifiers to bits as the Battlesuits play peekaboo and pop up from behind the shrine ruin. The Devilfish comes forward to get the burst cannon into range.

Shooting; railgun fires at a Venerable Dreadnought and it explodes, I ask Poddy to re-roll and it is still wrecked thanks to AP1. Missile pods and plasma rifles fire and score weapon destroyed on a Rhino, shake a Dreadnought and shake a Rhino if I remember right. The Purifiers get blasted by kroot rifles, burst cannon, pulse carbines, missile pods and plasma rifles - two left, they are proper 'ard!

* Tactical Notes

I've lost a Dreadnought this turn, that's two gone so far. It's that damn railgun. I am going to have to take it out a.s.a.p. The Battlesuits are also becoming a pain, not because they are causing minor damage, but I cannot see them as Poddy is using the shrine ruin to block LOS very well. I cannot moan about my turn too much, Battlesuits have taken some damage and the minor road block has been wasted.

Next turn I'll march those two Purifiers right up to the Kroot and unleash cleansing flame in combat, will multi assault the Gun Drones which disembarked from the Devilfish too, maybe. I think I'll have to change my angle of attack and move three Rhinos into the shrine ruin or in that direction so I can start hacking the Battlesuits, if I leave three Rhinos heading up the right flank of the board I can tackle everything in my path and get the objective there.

Turn 3

I move one ruin across my board edge and it parks right in front of the ruin Crowe is hiding in. Another Rhino moves 12" through the shrine ruin and the Purifiers inside bail out. A Dreadnought mooches up using the Rhinos for cover to add support. On the right flank three Rhinos move up to get into fire range of the Pathfinders while one holds position to unleash full psycannons into the single Shas'El through the doorway of the shrine ruin.

Shooting; Venerable on the right flank immobilises and stuns the Devilfish. Two units of Purifiers blast the Pathfinders with psycannons, they fail morale and fall back - actually they should have been destroyed as the Kroot was in their position where they fallen back too, this is because Poddy did the fall back move at the end of assault instead, though it doesn't matter as the Pathfinders had no significant impact on the game hereafter. Full auto psycannons blast the Shas'El and he saves every single one, though the unit which just bailed out the Rhino blast him and waste him with rending wounds. The supporting Dreadnought and other Purifiers inside the Rhino blast more Suits, one is instagibbed from the Dreadnought and I think that's about it. The two man Purifier unit on foot blasts the Kroot and kills one.

Assault; Purifiers multi assault the Gun Drones and Kroot. They cast cleansing flame and kill 7 Kroot before combat starts though fail to kill any Gun Drones. At the end of the combat the Kroot and Gun Drone are destroyed via sweeping advance and the single Justicar now holds the top right flank objective.

Tau roll for reserves and the Piranha arrives, it moves flat out down the left flank and lands behind a ruin.

Tau third turn; Crisis Suits jump away from my Purifers increasing the distance. Piranha moves from ruin to ruin getting close to a objective near my deployment zone.

Shooting; markerlights fire at the Rhino near Crowe, missile pods then blast into it and it explodes - all Purifiers are safe. The railgun then puts the Dreadnought out of commission. Missile pods and plasma rifles blast at the Purifiers in the shrine ruin, I get lucky on cover and armour saves and only two die.

* Tactical Notes

Hmm my first Rhino down and another Dreadnought is smoked. The Rhino I can live with, as I have five more and everything is pretty close to objectives now. The Dreadnought I could do without losing to be honest. I don't think I've had a bad turn myself though, some Crisis Suits have been thinned out and unit of Kroot, Pathfinders and Gun Drones taken out.

Next turn I'll move Purifiers up to hold the right flank objective to support the single Purifier. While that's happening one Rhino will move up to get the objective centre near Tau deployment zone as Purifiers move out to get the other two objectives.

Turn 4

I get the depleted Purifier unit back into their Rhino, it then attempts to move through terrain and is immobilised. Another Rhino moves through the shrine ruin ready to blast some Battlesuits. The three Rhinos on the right flank move up, I haven't got the objective, though I want to maximise shots going into those Fire Warriors and Battlesuits.

Shooting; the last Venerable Dreadnought and in fact last Dreadnought I have wrecks the Hammerhead. Psycannons blast and kill the single Shas'El along with the single Battlesuit and a entire unit of Battlesuits - only four Battlesuits left now!

Tau movement; Fire Warriors bail out the Devilfish and move along Poddy's table edge ready to blast the single Justicar. Remaining Battlesuits move away.

Shooting; Fire Warriors blast the Justicar and he's dead meat. Rhino inside the Shrine ruin gets wrecked and the Purifiers bail out. Not sure how, thought the Purifiers standing in the crater by Crowe are reduced down to two dudes.

* Tactical Notes

Ok, Tau have taken a beating this turn, though Poddy is keeping the pressure on. The Battlesuit numbers have dropped a lot and the last railgun is toast. Though, Poddy still has plenty of 'go' left, I expect the Fire Warriors to die, but Gun Drones, Piranha, Devilfish and remaining Fire Warriors can still contest objectives if Poddy plays his cards right.

I'll get Crowe out to support the depleted Purifier unit while the unit which just got bust out their tank will move and run to claim the objective on the far left. Remaining Rhinos will move out and I should claim all objectives except for the heavily held Kroot one in the top left.

Turn 5

One Rhino moves by the objective by centre Tau's deployment zone, squad bails out ready to drop psycannon death. The paired Rhinos move to claim the top right objective and will psycannon the Fire Warriors. Purifiers in the immobilised tank bail out to make sure the objective near Crowe is claimed, Crowe also comes out and says hello. Last Purifer unit moves and runs to the far left flank objective.

Shooting; psycannons fire at the Fire Warriors and kill three thanks to cover - they pass morale. Psycannons fire itno the Battlesuits and I think I score a single wound. Psycannons fire at a Gun Drone unit which Poddy has disembarked last turn (think about this he shouldn't have done it as the Piranha moved flat out)

Tau; Fire Warriors move and run round to contest the top right objective. Gun Drones and Fire Warriors move up and contest the far left objective while the Piranha moves flat out and contests the objective by Crowe. Unit of Battlesuits move up and contest the centre objective by Tau deployment zone.

Shooting; Pathfinders light up the Purifiers on the far left objective and everything what can fires at them, only a single hammer-fier remains.

* Tactical Notes

Ok, if the game ends next turn then Poddy has secured a victory. I hope it does end as this will be Poddy's first win and he deserves it, not just because he's waiting for a win, but also because his dice have been 'orrible cnuts this game.

If there's a next turn that single hammer-fier will charge and cleansing flame those Fire Warriors while the Piranha will get blasted to bits. The other Fire Warriors will die also. Battlesuits will eat force weapons and psycannons.

Turn 6

We roll for it and game continues. I do offer Poddy the game as I am happy to call it a day (plus I can go home and watch Shamless ) though Poddy says the dice have spoken!

My sixth turn then; Purifiers bail out the Rhino by top right objective and blast the Fire Warriors and they die. Purifiers by the centre objective shoot and charge the Battlesuits, they use force weapon and kill the remaining one. Single hammer-fier charges the Fire Warriors and casts cleansing flame and wipes them out. Piranha gets shot down with the Venerable Dreadnought while psycannons finish off the unit of two Gun Drones.

Tau's turn; the Devilfish moves up to contest the far left objective, though it doesn't matter as the single Purifier is wiped out by long range kroot rifles. Shas'El's unit moves up and contests the centre objective while the single Gun Drone moves up and contests the objective by Crowe.

We do roll for turn 7, and it happens. My missus rings and says the kids are going flying rodent gak crazy, so we call it a day. At this point we cannot decide the outcome of the game. Poddy says the dice have spoken and a victory would have been in my hands as the two Gun Drones and Battlesuits would be dead meat. I say it's a draw as we never started turn 7. Seems I am writing the battle report and I am a fair man I will take the win I mean I'll take the draw

Summary

That was a good game and I think could have gone worse for me, to be honest. I got lucky with Poddy rolling three 1's in a row for Broadside saves and then the remaining Broadside running away and getting killed by his own fish people. That was all but one railgun gone in turn 1.

What I need to do is start getting good as guessing this 24" range. Two games now I have missed a turn of shooting with several units because I am out of range. It's not to bad on a RoB board as you've got the squares, but if in doubt I should move out.

Poddy, again, did well. I wouldn't usually spread out my force, though he had the board covered nicely and evenly. I think me deploying on the right worked well for me, thanks to the shrine ruin, though Poddy got good use out of that too. It's a shame those railguns flopped on the saves, though it's a dice game so what can you do.

Wheres the pics gone lately Merc?

All proxy with my Blood Angels, dude. Not keen on taking photos with proxy models as some fool would ask 'why Blood Angels when it says Grey Knights' even though I would have put that in the report

Don't worry, game tomorrow is D.E vs S.W. Will be pictures for that

Tau definitely have an easier time with Grey Knights than with Space Wolves.

And in this case, your friend's Tau list wasn't even optimised.

Yeah, as a Purifier player myself, I find that a good Tau army just give my knights all sorts of fits. They really do matchup well against the GK's if the general knows what he's doing. This is one of the lists I faced (don't remember exact wargear):

Shas'el Fireknife (plasma+missile)

3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6-8x Pathfinders - Devilfish

3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides


I may be a little off, but it's probably one of the best Tau armies I've seen.

The above list is pretty hard Jy2, but I've had a much harder time with hammerheads and pretty much anything with a disruption pod. Dreadnoughts don't want to close in and the devilfish can block los on pretty much any of the army and still have cover.

jy2 wrote:Yeah, as a Purifier player myself, I find that a good Tau army just give my knights all sorts of fits. They really do matchup well against the GK's if the general knows what he's doing. This is one of the lists I faced (don't remember exact wargear):

Shas'el Fireknife (plasma+missile)

3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6-8x Pathfinders - Devilfish

3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides


I may be a little off, but it's probably one of the best Tau armies I've seen.

80 non-armor save kroot? That would die so fast, especially with their low Leadership. At least, they would get killed by anyone with blast templates.

Good report Mercer. I say you deserve the win. Your opponent shouldn't have deployed his Hammerhead close enough to get shot at turn 1. Poddy was really unlock rolling 3's '1' for his Broadside saves. Crisis Suits aren't very effective against AV12 and get insta-gibbed by Psyrifle Dreads.

I believe the list jy2 is describing i my Tau army. He's beaten it before with his Crowe Purifier list, but that was mostly due to bad dice rolling. If I recall correctly, I failed 5/7 dangerous terrain tests with my Crisis Suits. jy2 also made 95% of his cover saves against vehicle pens.

Hammerheads don't fair well against Psycannons. Also, volume of Str8 shots will eventually glance or penetrate Hammerheads. Tau vehicles have no extra armor options.

9 Broadsides w/ 6 target locks is much more effective than a Hammerhead against Crowe-Purifier MSU mech lists.

Dantalian wrote:

jy2 wrote:Yeah, as a Purifier player myself, I find that a good Tau army just give my knights all sorts of fits. They really do matchup well against the GK's if the general knows what he's doing. This is one of the lists I faced (don't remember exact wargear):

Shas'el Fireknife (plasma+missile)

3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6-8x Pathfinders - Devilfish

3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides


I may be a little off, but it's probably one of the best Tau armies I've seen.

80 non-armor save kroot? That would die so fast, especially with their low Leadership. At least, they would get killed by anyone with blast templates.

Smart of use of cover, spread out, and layers of Kroots makes all the difference. Especially if the first line has 50% in woods.

Nice Report! Good to see the Tau giving a good fight.

Shas'el Fireknife (plasma+missile)

3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6-8x Pathfinders - Devilfish

3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides

No drones for suit protection? Interesting....And big kroot squads love being tank shocked in todays meta. If you are stringing them out in "layers" to protect the suits then they may all get tank shocked in the same turn.

That's if said tank arrives in one piece. On average, Kroots will pass moral test.

Clever Git Studios wrote:Nice Report! Good to see the Tau giving a good fight.

Shas'el Fireknife (plasma+missile)

3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives
3x Fireknives

6x Fire Warriors
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots
20x Kroots

6-8x Pathfinders - Devilfish

3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides
3x Broadsides

No drones for suit protection? Interesting....And big kroot squads love being tank shocked in todays meta. If you are stringing them out in "layers" to protect the suits then they may all get tank shocked in the same turn.

Like I said, that list is an approximate and didn't inlude wargears such as target locks and shield drones in it....but it's there (at least for the broadsides).

I marvel at how tanks will be able to make it to tank shock given that there are 9 broadsides and 10 fireknives on that list...oh, and pathfinders to remove cover.

Isseyfaran wrote:Tau definitely have an easier time with Grey Knights than with Space Wolves.

And in this case, your friend's Tau list wasn't even optimised.

So far, Tau is the army which has been the hardest match up for my G.K. I thought Eldar would be the hardest, I guess not.

Tau list, I cannot comment, really. I've only played against Tau and read their codex a handful a times so I wouldn't be the best person to comment fully on the list. To play against it I think it can be pretty tough, but like I said, I've never played Tau.

jy2 wrote:Yeah, as a Purifier player myself, I find that a good Tau army just give my knights all sorts of fits. They really do matchup well against the GK's if the general knows what he's doing. This is one of the lists I faced (don't remember exact wargear):

I may be a little off, but it's probably one of the best Tau armies I've seen.

If I took Tau I would go mass Broadsides, shooty shooty death

Dok wrote:The above list is pretty hard Jy2, but I've had a much harder time with hammerheads and pretty much anything with a disruption pod. Dreadnoughts don't want to close in and the devilfish can block los on pretty much any of the army and still have cover.

Disruption pods are a pain in the arse and you're right about the Dreadnoughts

SabrX wrote:Good report Mercer. I say you deserve the win. Your opponent shouldn't have deployed his Hammerhead close enough to get shot at turn 1. Poddy was really unlock rolling 3's '1' for his Broadside saves. Crisis Suits aren't very effective against AV12 and get insta-gibbed by Psyrifle Dreads.

I believe the list jy2 is describing i my Tau army. He's beaten it before with his Crowe Purifier list, but that was mostly due to bad dice rolling. If I recall correctly, I failed 5/7 dangerous terrain tests with my Crisis Suits. jy2 also made 95% of his cover saves against vehicle pens.

Hammerheads don't fair well against Psycannons. Also, volume of Str8 shots will eventually glance or penetrate Hammerheads. Tau vehicles have no extra armor options.

9 Broadsides w/ 6 target locks is much more effective than a Hammerhead against Crowe-Purifier MSU mech lists.

Thanks, man. I think that was probably Poddy's mistake, those Hammerheads should have been further back. Same with the Broadsides. Thinking about it, his Broadsides should have bunkered up in the top level on the ruin he deployed right in front of. At least then if they did fall back then they would have to go through the ruin.

Failing 5 out 7 dangerous terrainr olls is just bad times. I am starting to wonder if Jy weighted your dice in his favour

Target lock Broadsides I think are ftw I think they will be more affective all round, tbh.

Clever Git Studios wrote:Nice Report! Good to see the Tau giving a good fight.

Thanks, dude

Cool batrep.

jy2 wrote:

I marvel at how tanks will be able to make it to tank shock given that there are 9 broadsides and 10 fireknives on that list...oh, and pathfinders to remove cover.

You are overly optimistic. Your stated list is 2500 points or so. At that pt level, pple can easily fill 10 - 15 tanks/vehs. 9 railguns and 20missile shots dont reliably shut down that no. Of tanks in 2-3 turns.

The right way to bring a tau list up to 2500 pts is to spam more suits, not kroots.

Pyriel- wrote:Cool batrep.

Thanks, bud

Isseyfaran wrote:

jy2 wrote:

I marvel at how tanks will be able to make it to tank shock given that there are 9 broadsides and 10 fireknives on that list...oh, and pathfinders to remove cover.

You are overly optimistic. Your stated list is 2500 points or so. At that pt level, pple can easily fill 10 - 15 tanks/vehs. 9 railguns and 20missile shots dont reliably shut down that no. Of tanks in 2-3 turns.

The right way to bring a tau list up to 2500 pts is to spam more suits, not kroots.

Actually, I was a little off. This was his exact list at 2K (battle report here)


Tau (Shadow Cadre):
-Shas’el, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
-2 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-3 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-3 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-6 Pathfinders, Devilfish, Disruption Pod
-6 Fire Warriors
-20 Kroots
-20 Kroots
-20 Kroots
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones


I agree it is always a good idea to add more suits, but I think you are underestimating the kroots. They are highly valuable in objectives games, especially with their ability to infiltrate and outflank, and help make up for Tau's weakness in that department. Or they can just be more screening units. I think the "balanced" Tau list should add both as it scales up in points, though I know many would rather overload their army with more offense (i.e. suits) as they go up in points.

And I have rarely played against a 9-12 tank MSU army (with 5-man squads) that just rushes the opponent. Most of their vehicles are made for shooting - razorbacks, predators, vindicators, etc. - and will sit back and shoot, with the exception being grey knights, IG meltavets and battle sisters.

But we all know how easily Tau can deal with the knights.

jy2 wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:

jy2 wrote:

I marvel at how tanks will be able to make it to tank shock given that there are 9 broadsides and 10 fireknives on that list...oh, and pathfinders to remove cover.

You are overly optimistic. Your stated list is 2500 points or so. At that pt level, pple can easily fill 10 - 15 tanks/vehs. 9 railguns and 20missile shots dont reliably shut down that no. Of tanks in 2-3 turns.

The right way to bring a tau list up to 2500 pts is to spam more suits, not kroots.

Actually, I was a little off. This was his exact list at 2K (battle report here)


Tau (Shadow Cadre):
-Shas’el, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
-2 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-3 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-3 Crisis Suits, Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, Multi-trackers
-6 Pathfinders, Devilfish, Disruption Pod
-6 Fire Warriors
-20 Kroots
-20 Kroots
-20 Kroots
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones
-3 Broadsides, 2 Target Locks, Team Leader, 2 Shield Drones


I agree it is always a good idea to add more suits, but I think you are underestimating the kroots. They are highly valuable in objectives games, especially with their ability to infiltrate and outflank, and help make up for Tau's weakness in that department. Or they can just be more screening units. I think the "balanced" Tau list should add both as it scales up in points, though I know many would rather overload their army with more offense (i.e. suits) as they go up in points.

And I have rarely played against a 9-12 tank MSU army (with 5-man squads) that just rushes the opponent. Most of their vehicles are made for shooting - razorbacks, predators, vindicators, etc. - and will sit back and shoot, with the exception being grey knights, IG meltavets and battle sisters.

But we all know how easily Tau can deal with the knights.

I think the main problem with that tau list is that it seems like it folds to long fang SW or a BA all power armour list. Devastators will be really hard on you as you can't really kill them effective at range.

Dok wrote:
I think the main problem with that tau list is that it seems like it folds to long fang SW or a BA all power armour list. Devastators will be really hard on you as you can't really kill them effective at range.

Tau is an old codex. They won't be able to match up against all enemies, no matter how optimized they get.

However, such a list will stand a slightly better chance than most IMO. They've got enough anti-MEQ firepower in the form of 9 fireknives (potentially 18 plasma shots and 18 missiles shots) and 9 broadsides as well as pathfinders to remove cover to better deal with FNP blood angels than usual tau builds. They've also got enough screening with all those kroots to delay those assault marines. It's far from an autowin, but I actually think they're better equipped to deal with FNP assault marine BA than other Tau builds, which fold against them just like paper.

Against LF-spam SW, they don't necessarily have to kill all the long fangs. In my games against Reece's Bjorn SW, both with my grey knights and necrons (and both victories for me BTW, though the dice did go my way), I just ignored his long fangs initially and concentrated on taking out his mobility primarily (something Tau can easily do). Unfortunately, long fangs are just going to get theirs, just as my psyfleman dreads are going to kill their share of vehicles. To focus on these units is just not efficient. In the case of Tau, if they can use JSJ to keep their crisis suits out of LOS of the long fangs, then space wolf shooting actually isn't very efficient. Either shoot at broadsides with 2 2+ shield drones each or at kroots (who cares) once they are denied LOS to crisis suits.

Tau will have problems against these and other particular builds. I just think the kroot-broadside build by SabrX is better prepared to handle them than most Tau builds.

True that. I'm not fully familiar with everything tau brings to the table, but if you JSJ out of Los of the fangs (assuming you were hiding on your side and not advancing) then all the SW player would have to do is hammer on the your broadsides and try to keep the rest of the army in cover. Assuming the SW list is spammy LF/GH, then they have lascannons to shoot at your broadsides as well.
I'm not trying to say that tau should be able to take on anyone at anytime with any build as their codex is old and has a lot of out-dated units, I'm just saying if you run into certain armies, you will face an almost auto-loss. Dependent on dice and player skill of course.

Discussions of the 9 Broadside list is getting off topic. I started a new thread for those who would like to discuss it further:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/432178.page

Mercer, sorry for getting off topic.

Thanks SabrX. I'll offload some of these points to your link.

Oh gosh well we can definitly agree the tau player didn't optimize his list for facing Grey Knights :p

Two pathfinder squads? two kroot squads with hounds? Hounds are normally a good pick, but worthless here! The Grey auto win CC lol
Should have gone with Broadsides over HH
Once again, one lone piranha? Useless in any list
Could fit in more suits

jy2 wrote:I agree it is always a good idea to add more suits, but I think you are underestimating the kroots. They are highly valuable in objectives games, especially with their ability to infiltrate and outflank, and help make up for Tau's weakness in that department. Or they can just be more screening units. I think the "balanced" Tau list should add both as it scales up in points, though I know many would rather overload their army with more offense (i.e. suits) as they go up in points.

All points agreed. But to do all these, you don't need 80 kroots. By spending points into these kroots which could otherwise have been put to buy more firepower, you are compromising efficiency.

I m an advocate of 9 broadsides and kroots, just not 80 of them :-).

* I realized you ve changed it to 60 kroots. Ok, that number though still high, is now closer than what I typically use.

This new list you have uploaded is really a typical Tau list you commonly see, with 1 or 2 points that could be improved upon.

1) Crisis Suits need gun drones in this case, ESPECIALLY when there is only 1 vehicle for mobile terrain. You can't always rely on table terrain, more so when you have 9 Suits.
2) Without piranhas, the list has severe problems against list like BW spam. 9 railguns, 6.75 hits, 1.12 pens & 0.5625 glance a turn have no way of stopping 4 wagons reliably in their tracks.

jy2 wrote:And I have rarely played against a 9-12 tank MSU army (with 5-man squads) that just rushes the opponent. Most of their vehicles are made for shooting - razorbacks, predators, vindicators, etc. - and will sit back and shoot, with the exception being grey knights, IG meltavets and battle sisters.

Then that's because your opponent don't adapt to situation. It's true that most tank MSU army are build for shooting, but less so when you are playing with Tau.

So if i can tank shock the kroots to nothing, i ll do so, rather than be so fixated on shooting.

jy2 wrote:Tau is an old codex. They won't be able to match up against all enemies, no matter how optimized they get.

I beg to differ. Tau are old, but they are a solid codex right now. So I disagree with your point here totally.

jy2 wrote:However, such a list will stand a slightly better chance than most IMO. They've got enough anti-MEQ firepower in the form of 9 fireknives (potentially 18 plasma shots and 18 missiles shots)

Long Fangs will rape those suits without gun drones.

Fascinating batrep, thanks for sharing.

Regarding all the tau commentary..it is indeed and old dex, and faces many challenges. I know, I am a competitive tau player (yeah, I know, its an oxymoron).

I bring my guys to tourneys, and while I don't win every game, I do very well. Due to its age (for a variety of factors) the dex is not forgiving AT ALL of any mistakes or bad dice.

Personally, I find wolves and BA to be the toughest match ups, and honestly most GK lists I can handle...after all, I am already used to running from marines....there are just less of them in a GK list...

thanks again for sharing.

davethepak wrote:Regarding all the tau commentary..it is indeed and old dex, and faces many challenges. I know, I am a competitive tau player (yeah, I know, its an oxymoron).

Then all I ve got to say is you should rethink whether you are really a competitive Tau player.

SabrX wrote:

Mercer, sorry for getting off topic.

Dude, no worries, it all adds to a healthy discussion

darkcloud92 wrote:Oh gosh well we can definitly agree the tau player didn't optimize his list for facing Grey Knights :p

The Tau player shouldn't optimise his list to play G.K, that would be list tailoring and extremely dirty.

davethepak wrote:Fascinating batrep, thanks for sharing.

Thanks, bud

The Tau player shouldn't optimise his list to play G.K, that would be list tailoring and extremely dirty.

True.
Good against-all lists should be used for the best results.

Any dimwit can build an anti-X list but then what result will it give and what light will it shine on the army if only used against what is it built against?

True skill lies in building a list that has a good chance of faring well against anything it can meet and really interesting results will come from having several of those lists face of against each others.

Exactly. Build a list to beat G.K and then it might not be able to beat say, Necrons or Blood Angels etc. Can't keep changing lists to talior what you're playing.

Great game guys.

Isseyfaran wrote:

davethepak wrote:Regarding all the tau commentary..it is indeed and old dex, and faces many challenges. I know, I am a competitive tau player (yeah, I know, its an oxymoron).

Then all I ve got to say is you should rethink whether you are really a competitive Tau player.

Heh....well, my opponents think I am, or at least by the end of the game they do...heh

Of course, it helps a LOT that I play several armies, tau are just my main - knowing the rules and knowing the strength's and weaknesses of other armies is very valuable information for a good general. In fact, this past weekend I was in a tourney (W3, T2, L1) and ran into a sisters list - and I don't know a lot of about sisters and I failed to ask a couple of key questions (oh, like are those jump?) which later proved troublesome (game was a tie, me with 8 to 7 battle points).

GK are very strong, and have a lot of diverse builds that can still be very competitive - or at least competitive in the hands of good players.

Overall, the player matters the most, but codex, table, mission, scoring etc. all have an impact when player skill is close.

Regarding an "antiX list" yes, balance is always important (some armies support this better than others) - although honestly you can usually count on some common elements (i.e. 3+ saves are very common).

Regarding Poddy's list

Crisis Teams and HQ
The crisis suits are very dangerous, and very effective against marines. These are very expensive suits, sacrificing a bit of range for the AP2. These are great marine/termy killers, and very useful if you face a lot of FNP.

Kroot:
Kroot hounds are usually used for beating I4 opponents - with so few of them, they do not signifigantly add a lot to the list. I would suggest either converting the 11's kroot into another hound or perhaps merging the squads in to 17 kroot and about 10 hounds. However, this dangerously reduces the number of troops at a commander's disposal, and Tau troops are notoriously fragile.

Pathfinders;
These guys are notoriously fragile, at this point level I would consider bigger squads or putting in some marker drones to crisis teams or even a sky ray.
Of course, the fish tax can be used on the firewarriors, but then you might not get them in at the same time if you choose to reserve them (its ALWAYS a good idea to reserve fragile tau troops....that way the have a chance to live to turn 5/6).

Hammerheads
These are very risky and a lot of points sunk into a "one gun syndrome tank" especially if not equipped with multi-trackers to give them more mobility.
As we see in the bat rep, a single weapondestroyed turns this thing into a useless 170 point piece of cover.
A single gun is also very annoying in the fact that its not twin llinked, and a miss is bad....tau lack the volume of AT that other armies have, thus ever single railgun becomes that much more important. Personally, I prefer more broadsides....run one squad with stabalizers for the ability to adjust to terrain, the other with targeting arrays and deploy them in a good position. Muti-trackers are essential here - if you move your HH 12" it reduces the chance it will get killed by hammers.

The loss of the railguns this early in the game (partly bad luck, partly some poor choces in list and deployment (the hammerhead was in range?)) is devestating to tau, as is going second. Tau have about three turns in most games to do the majority of their damage before an opponent starts hitting their sacrifice units (i.e. bubble wrapping kroot, fish, etc.).

Sounds like poddy did a good job JSJ (jump shoot jump) with his crisis teams...this is essential as they are the backbone of any tau army - and relatively fragile for their points (one missile or melta away from dead for a 60 point model).

This game was very tough on poddy, tau need to kill enemy transports first, as while enemy shooters are dangerous (your dreds) the real death comes being assaulted by marines coming out of transports. Those things have got to be popped to enable those crisis plasma teams to do their work. Target priority for tau is very crucial...the biggest challenge is when an opponent has long range AP1/2/3 (those are suit killers AND transports). Anything else is just annoying.

Again the broadside loss early was crippling, as hammerheads do not have the volume of fire necessary in today's game.

I look forward to more battle reports.

Dave Pak