Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

@ the Indy Open, I had a confusing moment and would like some clarification.

A unit of terminators multi-charge. The primary charge is a rhino, the secondary is a troop squad beside it. A crater is beside the troop squad. One termy is left out of base contact with anything but his own squad, most of which are against the rhino. The floating termy could have made it into base contact with the secondary target, the troops. Doing so would have forced him to roll a Difficult Terrain check, which he certainly wanted to avoid.

I cited that all models must attempt to make it into base contact. He countered by saying that since the rhino was his primary target (and the target of the floating model), he did not have to get all of his models into base with the secondary target, just as close as possible to the first target. To be clear, there was no more room for any termies to fit in against the rhino, but the floating termy could have fit in against the troops.

The judge ruled in his favor. Thoughts?

My initial thought is that it would depend on the order the termis moved in.
First two base the Rhino, third (floater) moves to coherency with them, next two base the infantry squad.

I agree with rigeId, the order of movement is what counts here.

If he has already made contact with the second unit then he would have to move into base contact with an enemy if possible. Nothing about primary or secondary, just enemy model if possible.

If he moved as rigeId described, he's not engaging the second unit until after the "floater" has moved. In which case the "floater" could not make it into contact with the only unit engaged at the time the floater moved. The final two termies could then multi-assault as rigeId explained.

Thank you guys. I see your point about the order of movement. I didn't know that could be used to get around the 'all models must attempt to make it into base contact' rule, but I can see how it could be possibly be done that way.

If anybody else has a differing opinion, please present it.

To wriggle out of a terrain test and have subsequent units engage the target could be viewed as a little bit cute but I it is reasonable to assume a model would attack an easy target rather than struggle through the crater to get at another, particularly when your mates can engage them in clear terrain.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but in the rules it does say that if any member might have to take a terrain test, the entire unit must make a terrain test. The person you played, i would say pulled a fast one on you and the judge.

As on page 34 in the BRB, second bullet point, "if possible, the model MUST (my emphasis) move into base contact with an enemy model that is within reach that is not already in base contact."
Backed up by assaulting multiple enemy units section on page 34.

Then if you turn the page on page 35 Assaulting through cover, second paragraph last sentence. "Remember that assaulting models MUST (my emphasis) try to engage as many enemies as possible - no holding back to avoid the test!

With all of these rules in the assault section, once your opponent tries to move into assault with one of his models, and one of his models which he moved is not in base to base, must go back and roll a terrain test. It is not a question of can I, it is a situation of you must. There is no choice after the moment you multi assault you check the rules again, cutting out a section to take advantage is not allowed. Hopefully this didn't influence the game.

I think the thing is that at the point that the guy advances and is not in base contact there is only one enemy under attack?

It's only the later moves that make it a multi.

Exactly. At the time the "floater" model moved, the unit was only engaging a single target, and that model moved legally within the restrictions. Subsequent models then engaged a new unit, but by that point the "bridge" model has already moved, and can't re-move to make base contact.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Hate to be the bearer of bad news but in the rules it does say that if any member might have to take a terrain test, the entire unit must make a terrain test. The person you played, i would say pulled a fast one on you and the judge.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you don't understand the entire situation.

As on page 34 in the BRB, second bullet point, "if possible, the model MUST (my emphasis) move into base contact with an enemy model that is within reach that is not already in base contact."
Backed up by assaulting multiple enemy units section on page 34.

Correct. The first two Termi's assaulted the Rhino, and the third one moved to support that assault.

Then if you turn the page on page 35 Assaulting through cover, second paragraph last sentence. "Remember that assaulting models MUST (my emphasis) try to engage as many enemies as possible - no holding back to avoid the test!

Again - correct. The two remaining models (after the floater moved) instead of supporting the assault on the Rhino, avoided the difficult terrain and assaulted the infantry.

With all of these rules in the assault section, once your opponent tries to move into assault with one of his models, and one of his models which he moved is not in base to base, must go back and roll a terrain test. It is not a question of can I, it is a situation of you must. There is no choice after the moment you multi assault you check the rules again, cutting out a section to take advantage is not allowed. Hopefully this didn't influence the game.

Incorrect. If you've moved a model into a legal position, there is no requirement (in fact it's forbidden to) to go back and re-move the model based on new information (ie - there's a new unit you could've based).

Multi-assaults are tricky and useful. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't understand the (imo pretty clear) assault rules and try to bend the multi-assaults into uselessness.

Well said ! I agree with that as well.

Unfortunatley for you, I see no reference to rules saying I am wrong. Please cite pages and said rules to support your arguement.


Futhermore, when you move into a multi assault you MUST follow all the rules for making assault moves. As I have pointed out before, the player making the move knowing full well that he was going to have a multi assault is trying to break rules. Please cite rules, and pages for these rules to back your arguement, otherwise that is just your opinion. I have cited and also quoted the rules saying you must follow all the rules for assault, there is no middle ground. It is written multiple times in the section, NO HOLDING BACK, first on page 34, then again on page 35. Choosing to move a guy not into base contact who can is not following the rules.

Furthermore, please cite a reference saying you cannot move a guy back, to make sure you follow the assualt rules?

Addtionally, since this situation is brought up what happens when you do not follow the assualt rules but have moved your models? Does the assault just happen then? Is the cheating player getting to cheat because " If you've moved a model into a legal position, there is no requirement (in fact it's forbidden to) to go back and re-move the model based on new information (ie - there's a new unit you could've based).

Multi-assaults are tricky and useful. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that don't understand the (imo pretty clear) assault rules and try to bend the multi-assaults into uselessness."

In the assault rules you are constanly checking for all of the requirements for proper assault moves, you must meet all the requirements for the assualt rules. If you care to look on page 34, no where on that page or any page in the assault section backs your opinion. So I feel that your statement that I am not understanding the situation is incorrect. In fact it is your understanding and not even attempting to cite rules shows you do not understand the tennats of YMDC, or the rules question in the first place.

Well like I said before the move is a bit cute without necessarily being illegal, there would be a lot of variables, does the guy who doesn't make base contact do that so as to maintain coherency with the other guys who base contact the other unit?

That would make it a bit less cheesy?

K-P, you are mistaken. Each model was moved in accordance with the requirements on page 34. The rules don't give us permission to move that third model twice.

Magpie wrote:Well like I said before the move is a bit cute without necessarily being illegal, there would be a lot of variables, does the guy who doesn't make base contact do that so as to maintain coherency with the other guys who base contact the other unit?

That would make it a bit less cheesy?

If you follow all the requirements of assualting then yes you could have a bridge guy/s within coherency, not in base contact making it so you can assault another unit. But failing to follow the assault rules, in a direct effort to avoid getting into base contact or having to take a terrain test is illegal under the assualt rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:K-P, you are mistaken. Each model was moved in accordance with the requirements on page 34. The rules don't give us permission to move that third model twice.

Please cite a rule saying as much, if you move a model illegally, you then have to move it back to make a legal move. You are not stuck.

When the model is moved, the move is legal and fits the requirements. The model cannot reach base contact with the unit being assaulted, so is moved to be within 2" of a model which is in contact. When the fourth model is moved, it can engage a new unit in combat if it's able to remain in coherency with the previously-moved models while doing so.

Each model can only move once during an assault. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they have permission to move and re-move.

I see totally what you're saying KP and to be honest I'd be pretty ticked off if I was on the receiving end of this but it is one of those ones where the technicality is fine but the spirit is not.

Let's turn it on its head for a moment, lets assume the attacker DIDN'T intend to engage the second unit, innocent until proven and all that. In the course of moving his units realises that he can engage the second unit, would you then let him reposition the models already moved to take advantage of the new found opportunity ?

I don't think so, cuts both ways.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Please cite a rule saying as much, if you move a model illegally, you then have to move it back to make a legal move. You are not stuck.

Page 34 under Moving assaulting units: "Assaulting models may not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

Also earlier in that same graph: "All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"

The judge and the other player were correct.

1) Move all models that can make it into base contact with the target of the assault.
2) Any models that cannot make it into base contact must be placed within 2" of a model that did make it into base contact.

So the floating model could be placed by your opponent anywhere he chose. He is not forced to put that model in base to base with another unit, or in difficult terrain. This allows for multi-assaults because he is allowed to put the model closer to the 2nd unit. And then he could put a third floating model in base to base with that 2nd unit if he chose. Again, he gets to place that model where he wants as long as it's still within 2" of a model in base to base with the original target unit.

DeathReaper wrote:

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Please cite a rule saying as much, if you move a model illegally, you then have to move it back to make a legal move. You are not stuck.

Page 34 under Moving assaulting units: "Assaulting models may not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

Also earlier in that same graph: "All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"

So again, where does it say you cannot move a model back to correct an illegal move?

So you see here DR that choosing to move a model which can reach B2B with a model in another unit which the assaulting player can, and in this instance did assault, is an illegal move. If the player did not assault that other unit there would not be a need to check all of the assualt rules and moves, but alas he did, and chose not to follow them...

And Magpie, not only would I allow it, but have told my opponents in tournies to do so. If in the middle of an assault move without breaking the rules for assaulting my opponent finds out that he/she can assault multiple units it is allowed. I help them move the models back in the same order and how they moved and had them start over again. There is a precendce with this and DT tests and assault, and in fact IIRC it says that the assault restarts with the first model moved into B2B after the first failed the DT test.


I have yet to see any evidence to the argue that you not only must move into B2B, but are required to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nemesor Dave wrote:The judge and the other player were correct.

1) Move all models that can make it into base contact with the target of the assault.
2) Any models that cannot make it into base contact must be placed within 2" of a model that did make it into base contact.

So the floating model could be placed by your opponent anywhere he chose. He is not forced to put that model in base to base with another unit, or in difficult terrain. This allows for multi-assaults because he is allowed to put the model closer to the 2nd unit. And then he could put a third floating model in base to base with that 2nd unit if he chose. Again, he gets to place that model where he wants as long as it's still within 2" of a model in base to base with the original target unit.

Unfortunately, you must reach B2B and "cannot hold back". If he chooses to assault the second or third unit, he MUST follow all of the rules for assault. Which one of them says that if possible the model MUST reach base to base of a model not into base to base." Choosing to move a model not into B2B (when it can into another unit, which you are going to assault with another model in the same unit) is holding back, to avoid getting into B2B and taking a Difficult terrain test, which in the BRB on page 34 and 35 says it is illegal. No holding back!

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Please cite a rule saying as much, if you move a model illegally, you then have to move it back to make a legal move. You are not stuck.

Page 34 under Moving assaulting units: "Assaulting models may not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

Also earlier in that same graph: "All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"

So again, where does it say you cannot move a model back to correct an illegal move?

So you see here DR that choosing to move a model which can reach B2B with a model in another unit which the assaulting player can, and in this instance did assault, is an illegal move. If the player did not assault that other unit there would not be a need to check all of the assualt rules and moves, but alas he did, and chose not to follow them...

And Magpie, not only would I allow it, but have told my opponents in tournies to do so. If in the middle of an assault move without breaking the rules for assaulting my opponent finds out that he/she can assault multiple units it is allowed. I help them move the models back in the same order and how they moved and had them start over again. There is a precendce with this and DT tests and assault, and in fact IIRC it says that the assault restarts with the first model moved into B2B after the first failed the DT test.


I have yet to see any evidence to the argue that you not only must move into B2B, but are required to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nemesor Dave wrote:The judge and the other player were correct.

1) Move all models that can make it into base contact with the target of the assault.
2) Any models that cannot make it into base contact must be placed within 2" of a model that did make it into base contact.

So the floating model could be placed by your opponent anywhere he chose. He is not forced to put that model in base to base with another unit, or in difficult terrain. This allows for multi-assaults because he is allowed to put the model closer to the 2nd unit. And then he could put a third floating model in base to base with that 2nd unit if he chose. Again, he gets to place that model where he wants as long as it's still within 2" of a model in base to base with the original target unit.

Unfortunately, you must reach B2B and "cannot hold back". If he chooses to assault the second or third unit, he MUST follow all of the rules for assault. Which one of them says that if possible the model MUST reach base to base of a model not into base to base." Choosing to move a model not into B2B (when it can into another unit, which you are going to assault with another model in the same unit) is holding back, to avoid getting into B2B and taking a Difficult terrain test, which in the BRB on page 34 and 35 says it is illegal. No holding back!

As someone said already, the extra model is moved anywhere he likes and is not forced to move into B2B or into dangerous terrain with any other unit. Once that unit has moved, it is not forced to move again after the 3rd+ model gets into B2B with the second unit.

Generally you're correct except that the 1st model that can't make it into B2B with the target unit is not forced to move twice. This model bridging the gap is placed anywhere the opponent likes and is not allowed to move again even if it is able to get into B2B. In this specific case, that first "floating" model has already moved.

Your missing the point... in the example given, the opponent purposefully made it so he did not have to take a DT test, which is illegal. Period. You must make all efforts to get into B2B, no holding back. Please cite a rules reference or stop trying to argue. I understand your opinion but in YMDC opinion is just that, opinion. YMDC requires you to back up your opinion with rules. I have referenced many times page 34, and 35, cited and quoted the relevant rules, and have been anwsered back with a wall of opinion no rules citation.

You fail to understand the requirements of assaulting multiple units, on page 34 under the assaulting multiple units section, it states you MUST follow all the rules for assault, so that means all of the moves you make when you decide to assault multiple units require you to move as many of your models into B2B as can reach B2B with any models not already in B2B regardless of the unit that is the primary target.

Failing to move a model who can, and in this instance must reach B2B, is an illegal move.

I understand that you are not required to assault multiple units, but that choice to do so has rules attached, which include if a model can reach B2B it must! Period no holding back! Ever, ever, ever! cite rules please!!!!!!

Wrong. Period.

At the time the bridging model was moved, you have NOT assaulted multiple units. That "bridging" model has been 100% legally moved.

You then move another model, again using the assault rules, into base contact with a new unit - making this a multiple assault. This model has, again, fully complied with the rules.

You have no permission to go back and change the already moved models position, as AT THE TIME the mdoel moved it had fulfilled 100% all assault move requirements.

You are under the erroneous impression that you "declare" multiple assaults, This is not part of the rules

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wrong. Period.

At the time the bridging model was moved, you have NOT assaulted multiple units. That "bridging" model has been 100% legally moved.

You then move another model, again using the assault rules, into base contact with a new unit - making this a multiple assault. This model has, again, fully complied with the rules.

You have no permission to go back and change the already moved models position, as AT THE TIME the mdoel moved it had fulfilled 100% all assault move requirements.

You are under the erroneous impression that you "declare" multiple assaults, This is not part of the rules

Actually NOS I am not under the assumption that you declare multpile assaults. I find it funny that you assume that I was thinking that, but no where in any of these replies have I said anything like that.

Now back to the topic, with rule citation yet again! WOW got to love them rules citations!

No you actually have not complied with the rule because you have broken the second and I think the only repeated rule in the assault section." Assaulting units MUST ATTEMPT (my emphasis) to engage as many models as possible with as, many models of thier models as possible."

Furthermore, you broke the second bullet point, pg 34 in Moving assaulting models. "If possible (my emphasis), the model must move into base contact with ANY enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model." Given the context once you read the assaulting multiple enemy units section, you find that the move not to reach base contact with an enemy model that your model could have reached is an illgeal move. There is no timing, after the first move into your declared unit, that you can then say now I will be assaulting this second unit, and all these other moves are exempted from the assault rules. They function at all times during every assault move.

First, it's very much possible that the assault was done exactly as rules say. Everything depends completely on what order did he move the models. Example follows.

Lets say I have unit of 5 terminators, A to E. There are 2 hostile units within 6" of terminator unit, Rhino and marine squad. There's also difficult terrain between terminator C and marine unit.
1. I declare assault on Rhino with my terminator unit, and Terminator A is closest to the Rhino. I move terminator A B2B with Rhino. (pg 34). The enemy unit (Rhino) is now fully engaged.
2. I move terminator B B2B with Rhino. (third bullet, pg 34)
3. Terminator C is so far out, that he cannot get into B2B with Rhino. I move him in coherency with either terminator A or B. (fourth bullet, pg 34 ) NOTE: It doesn't matter if the marine squad is within 6 inches of C or if there is any difficult terrain between them. I haven't yet declared assault against the marine squad and thus terminator C is not allowed to move B2B with them.
4. I decide to multi-assault. I move terminator D in B2B with a marine so that I end up within coherency of either terminator A, B or C. NOTE: the marine terminator D assaults doesn't have to be the one that's closest to terminator D. (pg 34, moving assaulting models, assaulting multiple enemy units)
5. Terminator E must now move B2B with unengaged marine if he can. If he can't do that, he must either try to move to B2B with either the marine that's engaged by terminator D or Rhino.

Kapitalist-Pig claims that this this scenario is against rules, but each step is done exactly as pg 34 requires. Please tell me, at what point and which rules have I broken in this scenario.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Failing to move a model who can, and in this instance must reach B2B, is an illegal move.

Relevant question is: Can they reach B2B with valid target? This is what you don't seem to understand.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: I understand that you are not required to assault multiple units, but that choice to do so has rules attached, which include if a model can reach B2B it must! Period no holding back! Ever, ever, ever! cite rules please!!!!!!

The "no holding back" part of the rules is trivial to circumvent by choosing the proper order of moving models. Relevant rules are:
"This means that assaulting models may still not ... and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting." (pg 34, moving assaulting models)
"Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models." (pg 34, assaulting multiple enemy units)
These two rules combined mean that until player decides to assault the troop squad next to the Rhino, he doesn't have to do that.
Note that the order of moving models is absolutely crucial. In my example, if I had moved terminator D before terminator C, I would have been forced to assault marine squad with Terminator C, even if it meant moving through difficult terrain.

So my answer to the OP is: Did he move the floating termy before or after he moved first terminator in B2B with your troops? If before, it was completely legal. If after, it was illegal.









Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: No you actually have not complied with the rule because you have broken the second and I think the only repeated rule in the assault section." Assaulting units MUST ATTEMPT (my emphasis) to engage as many models as possible with as, many models of thier models as possible."

You're deliberately removing context from that citation. It only applies to enemy unit you have assaulted, which would have been clear if you had bothered to include the previous sentence:
"This means that assaulting models ... may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting." (pg 34, snipped parts not relevant to this discussion)

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: Furthermore, you broke the second bullet point, pg 34 in Moving assaulting models. "If possible (my emphasis), the model must move into base contact with ANY enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model."

Context in this case being, enemy models from unit(s) being assaulted. Again, you cannot move into b2b with a model from an enemy unit you aren't assaulting.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: Given the context once you read the assaulting multiple enemy units section, you find that the move not to reach base contact with an enemy model that your model could have reached is an illgeal move.

I agree that the context is clear. I completely disagree with your interpretation of the rules and context though. Multiple assaults cannot be mandatory, because one is not allowed to move into b2b with models from enemy units one is not assaulting.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: There is no timing, after the first move into your declared unit, that you can then say now I will be assaulting this second unit, and all these other moves are exempted from the assault rules. They function at all times during every assault move.

Timing is of the essence, and that is exactly what you're missing. Each move must be legal by the restrictions we have WHEN we move that model. But those restrictions aren't retroactive.

KP -no, youre still wrong on this. My assumption that you feel you need to declare multiple assaults when you first move is because that is the only possible way you can get the result you are saying with such vehemence.

When the "bridging" model was moved, at that point there was a single assault - do you agree with this? Simple yes or no required.

If there is only a single assault (there is) then the model has complied - they are engaged with the first unit, as they could not get into btb. Their move is now done. They CANNOT move again, as they have no permission to.

This is legal because of the rule you keep ignoring - you cannot assault any model in a unit you are not assaulting. So AT THIS POINT you are assaulting the initial unit, and you CANNOT move into btb with any other unit - yet.

Now, the next model to move finds it CAN get into btb with another units models - now, it does not HAVE to do so, as there is no rule compelling you to do so as this is still an assault against one unit. It CHOOSES to assault a new unit, and therefore this new unit is included in the "must get into base to base" etc bullet points - both units are now valid targets for the bullet points.

Now, this does not mean you go back and change the position of models that already legally moved - because you have no permission to do so. The bridging model has not moved "illegally", as their move was 100% legal at the time they performed it.

THAT is why you are wrong, and no matter how many times you try to argue it, you will continue to be wrong as you are removing context from rules - you are similar to the guy who was claiming that multiple assaults are mandatory

Luide wrote:First, it's very much possible that the assault was done exactly as rules say. Everything depends completely on what order did he move the models. Example follows.

Lets say I have unit of 5 terminators, A to E. There are 2 hostile units within 6" of terminator unit, Rhino and marine squad. There's also difficult terrain between terminator C and marine unit.
1. I declare assault on Rhino with my terminator unit, and Terminator A is closest to the Rhino. I move terminator A B2B with Rhino. (pg 34). The enemy unit (Rhino) is now fully engaged.
2. I move terminator B B2B with Rhino. (third bullet, pg 34)
3. Terminator C is so far out, that he cannot get into B2B with Rhino. I move him in coherency with either terminator A or B. (fourth bullet, pg 34 ) NOTE: It doesn't matter if the marine squad is within 6 inches of C or if there is any difficult terrain between them. I haven't yet declared assault against the marine squad and thus terminator C is not allowed to move B2B with them.
4. I decide to multi-assault. I move terminator D in B2B with a marine so that I end up within coherency of either terminator A, B or C. NOTE: the marine terminator D assaults doesn't have to be the one that's closest to terminator D. (pg 34, moving assaulting models, assaulting multiple enemy units)
5. Terminator E must now move B2B with unengaged marine if he can. If he can't do that, he must either try to move to B2B with either the marine that's engaged by terminator D or Rhino.

Kapitalist-Pig claims that this this scenario is against rules, but each step is done exactly as pg 34 requires. Please tell me, at what point and which rules have I broken in this scenario.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:Failing to move a model who can, and in this instance must reach B2B, is an illegal move.

Relevant question is: Can they reach B2B with valid target? This is what you don't seem to understand.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: I understand that you are not required to assault multiple units, but that choice to do so has rules attached, which include if a model can reach B2B it must! Period no holding back! Ever, ever, ever! cite rules please!!!!!!

The "no holding back" part of the rules is trivial to circumvent by choosing the proper order of moving models. Relevant rules are:
"This means that assaulting models may still not ... and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting." (pg 34, moving assaulting models)
"Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models." (pg 34, assaulting multiple enemy units)
These two rules combined mean that until player decides to assault the troop squad next to the Rhino, he doesn't have to do that.
Note that the order of moving models is absolutely crucial. In my example, if I had moved terminator D before terminator C, I would have been forced to assault marine squad with Terminator C, even if it meant moving through difficult terrain.

So my answer to the OP is: Did he move the floating termy before or after he moved first terminator in B2B with your troops? If before, it was completely legal. If after, it was illegal.

But at that point you are being dishonest, and are willingly choosing to make an illegal move, for you know the rules and must follow said rules. There is no rule as far as I know that circumvents rules in this game. You must move into B2B.

Addtionally, you never delcare a multiple assault, 3. Terminator C is so far out, that he cannot get into B2B with Rhino. I move him in coherency with either terminator A or B. (fourth bullet, pg 34 ) NOTE: It doesn't matter if the marine squad is within 6 inches of C or if there is any difficult terrain between them. I haven't yet declared assault against the marine squad and thus terminator C is not allowed to move B2B with them.

Is where you fall apart on this section.

The moment you decide to make a multi-charge, is when you are bound by the rules to follow all of them and must attempt to make base to base. Otherwise you are gaming the rules and are cheating. Simply put there is no multi-charge declaration, so you are at all times required to, if making the choice to do a multi-charge, to follow all the rules invovled in assaulting which include the second bullet point, and No holding back.

Also, under assaulting multiple enemy units page 34, second paragraph, "As usual... Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they are following the rules for moving assaulting models...." This section does not give a time frame other then as usual the first model must move directly into contact of the delcared unit. So tells us that after the first move, we must maintain coherency and so on and so forth. Which means that if they can reach base contact with another model, and you are going to assault said unit, you must attempt to move every model into base contact, even if terrain is in the way and are now required to roll and see if the can make the assualt. There is no middle ground, no way around, no tunnel under, no flight over and no example where once you decide to assault the second unit, you can make it so you do not have to attempt to. All your moves must follow the assault rules.

What rule is being broken by the bridging model?
It's impossible to base the Rhino. The model is moved.
Cite the rule broken.

After that models movement is resolved, the assault turns into a multi-assault because the last two terminators also moved legally.

You have no permission to re-move a legally moved model.
That or you're asserting that multi-assaults are mandatory, but there was already an epic thread about that.

rigeld2 wrote:That or you're asserting that multi-assaults are mandatory, but there was already an epic thread about that.

I was wondering we'd head down that path again !

KP - "The moment you decide to make a multi-charge, is when you are bound by the rules to follow all of them and must attempt to make base to base"

That moment was after I moved the bridging model.

You are stating you are required to determine, at the outset, whether you are making a multiple assault or not. There is no such requirement in the rules, thereofre your argument is null.

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: But at that point you are being dishonest, and are willingly choosing to make an illegal move, for you know the rules and must follow said rules. There is no rule as far as I know that circumvents rules in this game. You must move into B2B.

Rules specify that I CANNOT move in to B2B with any other unit expect the one(s) I'm assaulting at that point. Explicitly.
"This means that assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting. " (pg 34, moving assaulting models, emphasis mine)

Kapitalist-Pig wrote: Addtionally, you never delcare a multiple assault,

Luide wrote:3. Terminator C is so far out, that he cannot get into B2B with Rhino. I move him in coherency with either terminator A or B. (fourth bullet, pg 34 ) NOTE: It doesn't matter if the marine squad is within 6 inches of C or if there is any difficult terrain between them. I haven't yet declared assault against the marine squad and thus terminator C is not allowed to move B2B with them.

Is where you fall apart on this section.