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I'm working on putting together a Salamanders list, and I'm debating how I want to transport my Sternguard Veterans. I've got a full squad of ten veterans, w/ two multi-meltas, and had originally planned on deploying them in a Rhino, but have recently seen some battle reports and other articles about folks drop podding their Sternguard. Now I can't make up my mind just how I want them to hit the field. I'm hoping my fellow dakkanauts could help me out of this quandry by sharing the pros and cons, and hopefully their own experiences, to help me make up my mind. Any feed back you guys could provide would be great

When I put my Sternguard in a drop pod, they are 10 man strong, equiped with 2 melta guns and 4-6 Combi-meltas. When the Droppod lands, I combat squad the unit, and hit 2 tanks with 3-5 melta shots. After hat, they hit stuff with their meltaguns, shoot things with hellfire rounds, or most likley, get destroyed in my opponent's first shooting round

My current list drop pods Sternguard in to take out 2 tanks with Meltaguns, or, if im facing something like Tyranids with very expensive MCs, rapid fire Hellfire Rounds into them.

Hitting on 3s and Wounding on 2s on Tyranid MCs... mmmm...

Personally I prefer rhino's because they give you options instead of a 1 turn suicide unit, also you can still shoot while in the rhino.

remember, 2 MMs cant shoot when coming out of the drop pod, they are heavy weapons and disembarking from DS counts as moving. Not to mention first turn enemy shooting...

I'd advise a rhino.

But you could go with an alternative: A GOI Librarian with Force Dome. Giving your sternies a 5++ invuln save.

There are some bits about Sternguard everyone forgets.

They have base Attack of 2 (thats better than any other space Marine)

They can have Heavy Flamers.

Some Characters make Sternguard amazing, Pedro Kantor and Vulkan Hestan (Twin linked Heavy Flamer? e.g re-roll to wound!). Even Lysander with his horrendous Bolter drill special rule!

Drop podding is good, but I have found that having 3 pods, drop in a Dreadnought and a 10 man Sternguard in Mutual support. The Ironclad is very good in this. Remember to use your Drop pod for a cover save on the Dread and also clever placing can allow your Sternies to unload on a squad whilst covered from another direction by a drop pod blocking LOS. Throwing in a Librarian with Nullzone can be very good for forcing the re-rolls on Inv saves, which makes a Sternguard unit dangerous to certain types of enemies. Also high toughness need to run for the hills as the special ammo is devastating, Tyranid Special characters and Wraithguard being quite susceptible to HELLFIRE rounds. Hellfire are pretty much the ultimate, and I rarely use any other round, save vengeance against marines (although the gets Hot can be hazardous to your units health).

The above tactics are all good.

Mentioning the base 2A, I've also seen them used well in Rhinos in a list with Pedro. 8 men, powerfist sgt, 2-3 combi-meltas for tankbusting. They're scoring, if kept in range of Pedro they're quite a decent secondary assault unit, and their shooting is pretty nasty.

I've also seen them used well as 5 man squads with two lascannons in a list with Pedro. They sit at home and hold objectives on your side of the field while giving fire support from a position in cover.

In any of the above applications, Pedro makes it so that your Elite utility/fire support units are now also additional scoring units, so you wind up having 5-6 scoring units in your army rather than 3 or 4.

Yeah as an Elite choice with LC's they are quite good in a 5 man team and free up a Heavy slot whilst still providing some heavy weapons (only with Pedro Kantor). Plus if the Enemy are coming for your objective move in to greet them, charge them 1st (good time to use your Combi-Flamers/ Combi-meltas), your getting 15 attacks plus with a PW sgt you can do some real damage.... Hopefully win and consolidate back towards the objective.

I have run Kayvann Shrike with Sternguard and remember that all units can trade Combat Tactics for Fleet. This sometimes give's sternguard the extra reach you need to move, use assault weapons then assault in the same turn, given their base attack 2, and the minimum 13" max 18" assault range makes them very flexible and also very good at bypassing enemy units to strike at that elite unit you need neutralising.

Sternguard are all rounders, they are what every Space Marine wants to be/ should be.

The ultimate sternguard tactic is using a Libby with Gate of Infinity and bouncing round the board like bunch of bolter wielding Warp Spiders.

mwnciboo wrote:Yeah as an Elite choice with LC's they are quite good in a 5 man team and free up a Heavy slot whilst still providing some heavy weapons (only with Pedro Kantor). Plus if the Enemy are coming for your objective move in to greet them, charge them 1st (good time to use your Combi-Flamers/ Combi-meltas), your getting 15 attacks plus with a PW sgt you can do some real damage.... Hopefully win and consolidate back towards the objective.

I have run Kayvann Shrike with Sternguard and remember that all units can trade Combat Tactics for Fleet. This sometimes give's sternguard the extra reach you need to move, use assault weapons then assault in the same turn, given their base attack 2, and the minimum 13" max 18" assault range makes them very flexible and also very good at bypassing enemy units to strike at that elite unit you need neutralising.

Sternguard are all rounders, they are what every Space Marine wants to be/ should be.

The ultimate sternguard tactic is using a Libby with Gate of Infinity and bouncing round the board like bunch of bolter wielding Warp Spiders.

If you run then you can not shoot.

As for the OP, I run my Sternguards in Rhinos. ~350 pts for a suicide squad is not really worth it. 6-8 Sternguards, 4-6 Combi weapons and 2 HFs. If you include Pedro (which is a very viable idea if you have 2 squads of sternguard) then take a PFist

Sentai_Sage wrote:When I put my Sternguard in a drop pod, they are 10 man strong, equiped with 2 melta guns and 4-6 Combi-meltas. When the Droppod lands, I combat squad the unit, and hit 2 tanks with 3-5 melta shots. After hat, they hit stuff with their meltaguns, shoot things with hellfire rounds, or most likley, get destroyed in my opponent's first shooting round

You can't combat squad after arriving via drop pod though.

Sternguard have become my new hostile fire magnets in my army, and they seldom survive very long. But when they open fire they bring the business with the hellfire rounds. If you are within rapid fire range few units can stand the heat. I never exchange their bolters for anything else since I don't want to lose the magical ammunition. Combi-metlas are the only extravagance I consider.

tedurur wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:Yeah as an Elite choice with LC's they are quite good in a 5 man team and free up a Heavy slot whilst still providing some heavy weapons (only with Pedro Kantor). Plus if the Enemy are coming for your objective move in to greet them, charge them 1st (good time to use your Combi-Flamers/ Combi-meltas), your getting 15 attacks plus with a PW sgt you can do some real damage.... Hopefully win and consolidate back towards the objective.

I have run Kayvann Shrike with Sternguard and remember that all units can trade Combat Tactics for Fleet. This sometimes give's sternguard the extra reach you need to move, use assault weapons then assault in the same turn, given their base attack 2, and the minimum 13" max 18" assault range makes them very flexible and also very good at bypassing enemy units to strike at that elite unit you need neutralising.

Sternguard are all rounders, they are what every Space Marine wants to be/ should be.

The ultimate sternguard tactic is using a Libby with Gate of Infinity and bouncing round the board like bunch of bolter wielding Warp Spiders.

If you run then you can not shoot.

Hold on that's not what I said, You can move, shoot (assault weapons), then assault .. Plus you don't always have to shoot your Sternguard, sometimes (not very often I grant you), you may get a juicy target and with Shrike giving Fleet you can have the option of charging around a unit to melta bomb, powerfist a certain other unit that is an absolute priority say a Chaos Vindicator, or a 3 man squad of obliterators. Although this is not using the Sternguard for their true purpose (e.g Shooting), their base 2A and 3 on the Charge means they can more than hold their own and are brilliant because of this flexibility. Heavy Flamers are great with the Fleet USR.

You can run if you choose to, and that's why I put the min/max charge because you can, not because you should in all situations. Fleet grants lots of nice extra tactical possibilities and can put your opponent on the backfoot. Especially as if shrike joins the unit you get Infiltrate. Then you detact him straight away and he can rendevous with another unit. Shrike + Thunderhammer Terminators is so OP it's almost immoral.

Bonesnapper wrote:

Sentai_Sage wrote:When I put my Sternguard in a drop pod, they are 10 man strong, equiped with 2 melta guns and 4-6 Combi-meltas. When the Droppod lands, I combat squad the unit, and hit 2 tanks with 3-5 melta shots. After hat, they hit stuff with their meltaguns, shoot things with hellfire rounds, or most likley, get destroyed in my opponent's first shooting round

You can't combat squad after arriving via drop pod though.

Sure you can.

mwnciboo wrote:

tedurur wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:Yeah as an Elite choice with LC's they are quite good in a 5 man team and free up a Heavy slot whilst still providing some heavy weapons (only with Pedro Kantor). Plus if the Enemy are coming for your objective move in to greet them, charge them 1st (good time to use your Combi-Flamers/ Combi-meltas), your getting 15 attacks plus with a PW sgt you can do some real damage.... Hopefully win and consolidate back towards the objective.

I have run Kayvann Shrike with Sternguard and remember that all units can trade Combat Tactics for Fleet. This sometimes give's sternguard the extra reach you need to move, use assault weapons then assault in the same turn, given their base attack 2, and the minimum 13" max 18" assault range makes them very flexible and also very good at bypassing enemy units to strike at that elite unit you need neutralising.

Sternguard are all rounders, they are what every Space Marine wants to be/ should be.

The ultimate sternguard tactic is using a Libby with Gate of Infinity and bouncing round the board like bunch of bolter wielding Warp Spiders.

If you run then you can not shoot.

Hold on that's not what I said, You can move, shoot (assault weapons), then assault .. Plus you don't always have to shoot your Sternguard, sometimes (not very often I grant you), you may get a juicy target and with Shrike giving Fleet you can have the option of charging around a unit to melta bomb, powerfist a certain other unit that is an absolute priority say a Chaos Vindicator, or a 3 man squad of obliterators. Although this is not using the Sternguard for their true purpose (e.g Shooting), their base 2A and 3 on the Charge means they can more than hold their own and are brilliant because of this flexibility. Heavy Flamers are great with the Fleet USR.

You can run if you choose to, and that's why I put the min/max charge because you can, not because you should in all situations. Fleet grants lots of nice extra tactical possibilities and can put your opponent on the backfoot. Especially as if shrike joins the unit you get Infiltrate. Then you detact him straight away and he can rendevous with another unit. Shrike + Thunderhammer Terminators is so OP it's almost immoral.

How is move, shoot (assault weapons) then assault any different with fleet than without? Why are Heavy flamers great with Fleet
Also, Shrike+TH&SS are by no means OP

tedurur wrote:How is move, shoot (assault weapons) then assault any different with fleet than without? Why are Heavy flamers great with Fleet Also, Shrike+TH&SS are by no means OP

HF's are great with Fleet because it gives the option of moving 6", Flaming with slightly better Stats than a Flamer, and then Assaulting or
Moving, then Running, then assaulting.
I've got the advantage of a Heavy Assault Weapon where I can opt not to fire it and assault between 1" & 6" further than normal.
It gives me options, sure I could take flamers and arguably 2 x Combi Flamers and keep 5 Bolters but I like Heavy Flamers and the fact they are assault weapons is great. It's Horses for Courses YMMV.
I think Fleet Terminators is bit crazy, I like using it against people but there is a part of me that says "Hey these guys are Fleet now, they charge quickly across the battlefield in their massive hulking Armour suits, but they still cannot sweeping advance?" or have I got that wrong?

Don't take anything besides combi-weapons for sternguard. If you give some of your sternguard with combi-meltas, there's nothing they can't kill.

I always drop pod my sternguard, and there are a few ways you can support them.

One fun way, is to take a librarian with gate of infinity (and toss in force dome for good measure if you need to) and use a few more drop pods in your list, then give them all locator beacons. If in range, the gate of inifity won't scatter. Mobile bolters of death.

Podded Sternguard are monsters

I like to run a full squad of 10 with 2 meltas, 2-6 combi-meltas and either a PW or PF on the sarg.

Sometimes I'll throw in a shooty HQ to boot.

Run that pod with a MM Dread coming in near it, and that's two pods your opponent will respect. In larger games I'll rune 5-7 pods: 2 Stern, 1 MM Dread (sometimes an Ironclad), 1 Tacticals, and the other three bought with units, but basically coming in empty or with a late game tactical squad.

Modestly, I'd say they've been game changers every time.

A fairly typical moment (believe it or not): I took out 3 Leman Russ Tanks, 2 Hellhounds, at the beginning of turn 1 (none of them ever fired a shot). It ended up being 900 points of enemy armor/troops (explosions got some) that never fired a shot, and I had 20 sternguard and an Ironclad in the survivors' face.

That's 830 points of SM taking out 900 points of IG with no losses and holding a vital piece of turf in the enemy deployment zone! Yeah, the return fire hurt, but I had models from each squad still standing at the end and I'm sure they took at least another 500 points out with them... the Ironclad lived too.

BTW: Yes you totally can combat squad coming out of the droppod.

The GoI jump around is a nice little trick, but I've found it not worth the points to run... that's a Dreadnought in a drop pod, for the ability to jump around in a tight little cluster begging a plasma cannon or two to kill the entire squad.

Well, drop pods it is then! Now I just need to ponder their wargear a bit with all the advice in this thread in mind...

I plan on running 10 two LCs for fire support and a Razorback for the other 5 with some combi-love added. With Pedro it should be fun!

Lobukia wrote:Podded Sternguard are monsters

They sure are!

BTW: Yes you totally can combat squad coming out of the droppod.

As i have always understood things you have to combat squad your units during deployment. And the FAQ says:

Q: If I split a Space Marine squad into two combat
squads, can both embark into or be deployed in the
same dedicated transport? (p51)
A: No. They are no longer the same unit and a
transport vehicle can only carry a single infantry squad.

And also:

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and
then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other
combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but
not in the Drop Pod? (p69)
A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may
not break down into combat squads.

To me that sounds as though units in reserve (drop pod or no) can never be split into combat squads. Feel free to correct me for I'd love to be wrong about this one.

The drop pod rules in every SM codex state that you can split into squads after you deploy from the pod. It still fits inside FAQ rules. Read the drop pod entry in one of the codexes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, it's in combat squad rules, not drop pod rules area. Specifically mentions squads in pods. Hey, I'm a poet.

Also, sternguard in pods rock. Truly, truly rock. I ran a suicide squad of 5 in my BA list and they always made themselves valuable.

Not that it's competitive or the least bit point efficient but....10 sternguard with storm bolters, pedro, and lysander in a LRC would be awesome. you lose your special ammo but you gain re-rollable assault 2 weapons on guys that are going to get 4 attacks on the charge. That's wayyyy too many points (800+) into 1 unit/tank but it'd be fun as hell to run casually.

The important line in that statement is that you lose your special ammo.

You're paying 30 points a model to make them worse at the thing you take them for. I always take combi-meltas, but that doesn't take away my shooting ability.

4 attacks? With next to no special weapons? What possible advantage do you gain from it.

I'm just saying it'd be fun to roll all those dice, you must have missed my point about it not being the least bit competitive, merely for kicks.

Hopefully this doesn't qualify as hijacking but I've got a question that's in the same vein.

I'm considering using a 9-man Sternguard unit (2 meltaguns and several combi-meltas) plus Pedro in s DP as my only DP in the force. Therefore, they're guaranteed to show up on Turn 1. Drop them in the opponent's backfield and deploy them in position to pop something juicy. Hopefully be able to use their DP and the wreckage of the dead first victim (if a vehicle) to shield them somewhat from the wrath of the opponent's army. As I'm running a bike army (4 squads) plus three Dev squads and a couple of Landspeeders, I'm hoping that there is enough to keep him occupied sufficiently that he can't turn a lot of firepower on the Sternguard. If they survive the return fire, Pedro and company can either unload on something else or close with a juicy squad that they can handle (hardcore assault unit - no; LongFangs, HiveGuard, Eldar Reapers, etc.. - yes) as with Pedro they'll be 3 attacks base. I understand that they'll still be basically a sacrificial unit and a pricey one at that. What I'm looking for is general thoughts about the concept or possibly replacing Pedro with a Libby that could provide an 5++ save to the unit. If I go with the libby, what suggestions do you have for his other power - 1) Smite, Avenger, or Vortex to make him shooty like the Sternguard, 2)Null Zone to make the tougher troops being shot more vulnerable to Sternguard fire, or 3)GateOfInfinity to get the remnants of the squad out of Dodge if they survive the first turn. I think Vortex is potentially too dangerous to the squad and GoI is probably not the best choice. Also, with the libby the assault aspect is less emphasized.

timetowaste85 wrote:The drop pod rules in every SM codex state that you can split into squads after you deploy from the pod. It still fits inside FAQ rules. Read the drop pod entry in one of the codexes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, it's in combat squad rules, not drop pod rules area. Specifically mentions squads in pods. Hey, I'm a poet.

Also, sternguard in pods rock. Truly, truly rock. I ran a suicide squad of 5 in my BA list and they always made themselves valuable.

What the deuce! You are absolutely right! I wish I'd known that during my last game. Funny that you learn these basic things after playing for several years!

Nevermind Sternguard. Why not just get your entire army right in your opponent's face?

vulkan
dread-mm,heavy flamer,dp,locator beacon
dread-mm,heavy flamer,dp,locator beacon
5xtermiantors-th/ss
tac squad-mm,melta,combi-melta,dp
tac squad-mm,melta,combi-melta,dp
tac squad-mm,flamer,combi-flamer,dp
tac squad-mm,flamer,combi-flamer,dp
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers

I like the way you think, Azazel.

azazel the cat wrote:Nevermind Sternguard. Why not just get your entire army right in your opponent's face?

vulkan
dread-mm,heavy flamer,dp,locator beacon
dread-mm,heavy flamer,dp,locator beacon
5xtermiantors-th/ss
tac squad-mm,melta,combi-melta,dp
tac squad-mm,melta,combi-melta,dp
tac squad-mm,flamer,combi-flamer,dp
tac squad-mm,flamer,combi-flamer,dp
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers
2xland speeders-mm, heavy flamers

Truly the greatest tactical mind of our time!

Um....no?

I love it when half my opponents army isn't on the table!

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Um....no?

I love it when half my opponents army isn't on the table!

And the other half is in your face with twin-linked meltas & flamers?

Yes, they kill my Rhinos (which I don't need now because you delivered) and the Zerkers mow through the Marines.