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I would especially like to hear opinions on Noise MArines and Thousand Sons, as they seem least used, although I would be interested in anything people have to say on the subject...

Noise marines sonic blasters have 3 shots each upto 24" if they stay still, same as 3 x normal marines. Combined with the blast master they can be expensive objective sitters. Sons maybe good against power armour GK - relentless ap3 bolters and inv saves vs all those force weapons, Maybe. I am reaching here, they both are too expensive to be competitive imho.

I personally use NM's in 5 man groups with BM. Though sometimes i like to fluffy use them in full groups just for fun. I mean 3x5 man groups with 3 BM in rhinos with HL, 2 DP's with lash etc etc.. As for TkS's i dont use them most of the times.


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By all means 3x5 NM's +3 xHL in rhinos are 6 blasts. Compine with Oblits and Slaanesh DP's for max effect.

1ksons are nice. They are completely freed from the requirement of using cover, what with the 4++, which also seriously cramps the style of anything that was relying on power weapons/powerfists to do damage in close combat. Add to that the only troops choice small arm in the game with Ap3, and you now require your opponent to use cover or get ultimately shredded. Plus, they have relentless, which means that you can put out a pretty mean foot list with them if you want. Add to that a sorcerer who can do some pretty mean stuff with psychic shooting, and with his force weapon. Used properly, they're on par with berzerkers and plague marines.

Noise marines are just junk, though. +1I isn't really much of a benefit in close combat (especially compared to FC, FNP, or 4++), especially given that they're already going first anyways (against I3 stuff, or I1 from thunder hammers, etc.) or they're now only tying higher stuff (like I4 models with FC). Meanwhile, sonic weapons are just dumb. You spend more points just to convert a couple of your bolters over to storm bolters or upgrade a missile launcher to an Ap3 missile launcher, which likewise isn't that good.

1ksons are expensive, but you get a buinch of stuff. Noise marines aren't much better than regular CSM, despite costing more. We'll see if they get something worth taking them for in the next codex.

So, can you base an Army on just cult marines? Or do you really need to add "regular" CSM??

You guys doubting the Noise Marines are just plain WRONG!! 7 NM with Noise champion, 7 sonic blasters, DOOM SIREN, Power Weapon, meltabombs and a rhino with combi-melta. I run 2-3 squads of these and they NEVER fail me. They are VERY worth the points. DOOM Siren is a beast..... the sonic blasters are Great against hordes and very good sitting put and shooting, since you are I5 you can just take charges from things another marine wouldn't dare.

Cheers,
Phillip

Yeah, but for the points...

A noise marine with sonic blaster is 25 points. A Grey Knight purifier, w/ halberd is 26. The grey knight fires as well on the move, has a better initiative, with a force weapon, has psychic powers, the aegis, combat squads, preferred enemy...

I've got an Emperor's Children army too, but the chaos codex is showing its age and noise marines are considerably over-priced compared to what's available in other books.

Berzerkers and Plague marines are both fantastic.

Noise marines, not terrible. A little better in close combat than a standard marine with +1I and fearless. Sonic blasters are over priced, but the blast master and doom siren are both fantastic weapons.

Thousand sons are pretty bad though. No real champion so no power fist option. Sorcerer is way overpriced. Ap3 bolters are nice vs space marines, but what good are they vs orks or guardsman? Or eldar? Or tyranids? Overpriced for what they do, and negated by everyone getting a 4+ cover save or being meched up anyway. No special weapons means no tank killing power.

Berserkers are somewhat meh. They are good in cc but suffer from having no adequate and cheap delivery vehicle ( that is, the rhino is cheap and good but it lacks assault ramps which can be problematic for cc troops )

Plaque marines are good. Expensive, yes, but excelent durability and 2 special weapons even for a 5 marine squad is win.

Noise Marines. The basic version is little more than a fearless marine with +1 I for 20 points. That's idioticaly expensive. Their sonic blasters are quite good but 5 points for a somewhat improved stormbolter is far too much.
Blastmasters are good but expensive. Overall Noise Marines have some potential, especialy when it comes to anti infantry shooting, but suffer badly from being very expensive. Paying 25 points for something that
dies like a normal marine might not be the smartest choice.

1k sons. Gods, they are bad. Sure, ap3 bolters and 4+ invul sound nice, till you check their pricetag. Add the mandatory sorcerer with his expensive and crappy powers and keep in mind that they cannot take ANY special weapons. At the end of the day they aren't more survivable than normal marines because cover is abundant and ap3 bolters, while being a nice gimmick, suffer from the abundance of 4+ cover as well. So, 1k sons are only good if you like to stand outside of cover and if your opponent is too damn dumb to put his marines into a vehicle/ into cover. Oh, they might see some use as a tarpit for powerweapon wielding opponents, that is, if you manage to get them into combat ( yay slow and purposefull! )

What I'm getting, then, is that cult troops are fluffy, but a bit poor...

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:What I'm getting, then, is that cult troops are fluffy, but a bit poor...

Berzerkers and plague marines are worth their points. They aren't outrageously powerful, undercosted units like grey hunters or purifiers, but as far as most troops go they are pretty good.

The problem with noise marines and thousand sons is that they cost a lot but their special abilities don't add much over what a regular Chaos Space Marine already does. Where as plagues and berzerkers cost more but far outperform Chaos space marines in their role.

Noise marines do have a saving grace in that 5 of them with a blast master or doom siren can be taken as a "surprise" unit that can really do a number to MEQ. Thousand sons don't even have that gimmick ability. The only thing they do better than a normal marine is die a little slower vs power weapons or monstrous creatures, but they will never actually beat anything.

I've been thinking something like...
2x10 Bezerkers with Champ and Personal Icon
1x9 Bezerkers with Kharne
2x5 Termies
3x Land Raider

It's not pretty, but there's something about it I like...

I only used 3x LR's in a 3000k battle and it was too much. I prefer zerkers in LR but i dont like the idea of chaos LR at all. I find it high in cost for what it is. Thats my opinion though...

Basically, if you want to do a csm army wait for the new codex. The present codex is from 4th ed and is outclassed by the newer 5th ed codexes. Like Redbeard said, it is showing its age. Personally, though, I've always used berzerkers and plague marines as the core of my army. Thousand Sons were good in 4th ed, not worth the points sink now. No experience with noise marines.

They're all expensive. Extremely so, I'd advise taking one unit of regular Chaos Marines per unit of Cult Marines in a regular game to keep numbers at a reasonable level.

Thousand Sons are slightly overpriced, but they're awesome and versatile elite infantry that can handle most jobs that don't require long-ranged fire. The Sorcerer ought to have Gift of Chaos or Wind of Chaos, there are better anti-tank options than Bolt of Tzeentch. Use them to assault or hold positions, wipe the floor with elite units in a close-in firefight, or bog down enemy units in prolonged assaults. Watch out for anything that can pick out your Sorcerer and kill him, he's the heavy lifter in the unit (things like Vindicare Assassins and Eldar Farseers with Mind War).

Plague Marines are the only really competitively-priced Cult unit, their main shtick is being absurdly tough. Use small units to tote special weapons in close to the enemy and laugh off return fire. Watch out for stuff that can ignore FNP (plasma cannons, Howling Banshees, Thousand Sons, the like).

Berzerkers are remarkably unsubtle. Point them at the enemy, say 'go', and watch them shred whatever they face. Be careful to ensure they get to the enemy, if they're stuck walking through enemy fire to get to close combat they'll die just as fast as regular Chaos Marines.

Noise Marines are kind of unfocused, they don't really excel in any particular area. The prime awesome thing about them is the Blastmaster, all the punch of a krak missile but hitting as a blast template, you probably want to take a minimum unit with a Blastmaster and use it as fire support (140pts for a 48" S8 AP3 blast template isn't bad).

None of them except for Plague Marines are really competitive, but in casual play all of the Cult units have a place in most armies. Have fun with whatever you decide.

Noise marines are only "competitive" If you ignore sonic blasters, blast master (It's a 40 point KRAK MISSLE, it's not competitive at all!) and take a doom siren, which is the best part of the noise marine as it is now.

Just take a squad, throw in doom siren, and that's it, maybe a Power weapon or Melta bombs.

WHATCHU MEAN "YOU PEOPLE" ?!!!!!!! O.o Personally, I dont care for 1k sons, overpriced as HECK!!, Plague marines are a point or 2 overcosted, but still wreck face with plasma/ melta spam and FNP. Berserkers are just right I think for what they do. On the charge they are dishearteningly powerful (for their target) and still lay out some good beatn when being charged.
I love cult troops, but I think 2/4 of them are overpriced. Dont know a thing about Noise marines

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:I would especially like to hear opinions on Noise MArines and Thousand Sons, as they seem least used, although I would be interested in anything people have to say on the subject...

They're the least used because they're horrendously over priced. Berserkers and plague marines are still some of the best troop choices in the game though. Normal csm are ok but if you look at how much stronger berserkers and plague marines are in comparison and then you look at the points difference I think you've got to give it to the cultists.


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You need to ignore these people who are telling you thousand sons and noise marines w sonic blasters are good. They couldn't be more wrong. Please believe me. A 5 man noise marine with a doom siren is good, but that squad is all about the doom siren.

Redbeard wrote:Yeah, but for the points...

A noise marine with sonic blaster is 25 points. A Grey Knight purifier, w/ halberd is 26. The grey knight fires as well on the move, has a better initiative, with a force weapon, has psychic powers, the aegis, combat squads, preferred enemy...

I've got an Emperor's Children army too, but the chaos codex is showing its age and noise marines are considerably over-priced compared to what's available in other books.

Redbeard put it right by saying that the CSM codex is showing its age. Noise Marines are indeed great and can be set up either in five man squads with a blastmaster, or seven to ten man squads with sonic blasters and a pw/doom siren champion. I personally like a ten man squad in a land raider. The thing though, is that codex creep is really evident when you compare the cost of running these guys against the cost of running a kitted out squad of grey hunters or purifiers. Hopefully the new CSM codex will bring the cult troops in line comparatively with the points values of the other more modern codexes.

Plague Marines-Good
Thousand Sons-Average
Noise Marines-Mediocre
Khorne Berzerkers-Good

As others have said, Noise Marines are overpriced. Thousand Sons are a tad on the expensive side, but can be useful. Plague Marines are very endurable for their cost. Khorne Berzerkers are melee monsters.

LoneLictor wrote:Plague Marines-Good
Thousand Sons-Average
Noise Marines-Mediocre
Khorne Berzerkers-Good

As others have said, Noise Marines are overpriced. Thousand Sons are a tad on the expensive side, but can be useful. Plague Marines are very endurable for their cost. Khorne Berzerkers are melee monsters.

I concur. Mediocre and average are the same thing, though.

Plague marines are the only ones worth the points. Bezerkers are alright too, but they will be mowed down as you try to get them into cc, that is unless you put them in a LR or Rino and then you have to pay the extra points.

One of the armies I regularly play against is composed entirely of cult troops, one unit of Bezerkers in a LR, and two units of thousand sons, slow and purposeful and AP 3 really hurts.
He usually buys a rhino for one unit, getting it into position to catch units out of cover.

I must say, the thing that REALLY attracts me to 'zerkers for this is that they're plastic, as opposed to Finecast or (shudder) plastic-metal hybrid!!!

Yes. The kit is still awesome, even though it's something like 15 years old. I wouldn't mind findcast so much if they would do some kind of quality control on them.

Thing about the Finecast Plague Marines is more, for me, that you get less models for more money!!

true

Never underestimate Berzerkers. when 20 hit you at once you know about it. then you realise they just killed 5 death company and 18 tactical marines.

20 Berzerkers hitting at once? Wow...

Thousand Sons-
AP3 Bolters, Slow and Purposeful and 4++ but don't have the BP/CC combo that pretty much every other infantry in the codex has, so only 1 attack base in assault. If your playing against lots of Marine armies, a squad or two of these could be useful, I mean if you take 8 and a Sorcerer with Doombolt in a rhino, your going to chew through a Tactical squad (or any other 10+ man 3+ save infantry squad). Use them in conjunction with some anti-tank, blow up a squads transport, and rip the exposed squad to shreds. They come with major draw backs, firstly you need to get the enemy infantry out of their transport and/or cover for them to be effective, which may sound simple enough, but with the amount of area terrain (in fact, even blowing up a tank, if you use a crater isn't that then area terrain, so they gain a cover?), ok 4+ isn't as good as 3+, but your not going to kill as many as you would like, and then your going to get hit back and suffer just as many loses, and your unit costs more. Also, if your facing Orks, IG, Nids, DE, Termie based armies etc, anything that doesn't have a 3+ save, your AP3 bolters, the main thing your paying an extra 8 points above a standard CSM for, becomes just a bog standard bolter, your paying 8 points for a not all that useful 4++ (ok its a nice inv save, but you don't really need it, your 1K sons aren't going to be pelted with low AP weapons or power weapon toting units, they fall down just as easily to standard shooting and assault attacks, its just not worth using anything better on them).

Noise Marines-
I liked these, but have never really used them. The extra shots, even at 25 points a model seems pretty useful for a troop unit. It means you can sit back, either in a firing line Chaos army, or just sit back behind your assaulty units and rip the enemy to shreds at range. They are also themselves able to pack a CC punch, at a higher initiative, you can take a Power weapon, and doom siren and take care of most non dedicated CC units fairly easily, and even some CC specialists won't be too keen to have a squad of Noise Marines staring down at them. If I were going to take Noise Marines, it'd probably be in a Slaanesh themed army, with a couple of Lash Princes, 3 shooty squads a couple of assaulty squad, and then Oblits/Preds as heavy. As i haven't really used them at all, I can't say what the best way to use them is, suppose it depends on what role you want them to fill.

Berzerkers-
My favourite chaos unit after Abaddon, send these in the right direction and they will rip everything to shreds. They can work in rhinos, as long as you get your movement and positioning right (first turn block with another rhino or something, second turn smoke, third turn get them out before moving and assault..). As actual troops, they aren't all that useful, they are an assault unit. You don't want them sitting back on an objective, and unless you are really massacring the enemy they'll probably end up dieing as they normally have to get right into the enemy's face. At the moment i'm only using one squad, in a LR with Abaddon, i'd preferably like to use a couple more squads and have a real assaulty army. One squad in a rhino can be a distraction, one squad in a Land Raider can be fatal, multiple squads will be a real problem for opponents who aren't too good in CC (imagine multi-assaulting Tau or Guardsmem...).

Plagues-
Apparently boring, and very competitive. I must admit at the moment I use two squads of five, with two meltaguns in rhinos. I don't like them though, they never kill anything (my rolling is terrible, I get them out next to a tank, and I always miss..) and five of them aren't that survivable. I probably use them too offensively. I think they can probably work on foot quite well, sticking to cover, with plasma or melta, for every two rhinos left out you get 3 more Plagues, which doesn't seem like much, but if your going for an infantry heavy foot army, you need those extra numbers. Champs with PF is probably the best way to go, as they are only I3, if you even bother with a Champ (only in a squad of 7, or more I suppose, I'd probably only take squads of 5 or 7)

Basically the four chaos cult troops are what make Chaos different, they all have a different purpose, survivability or assault power, MEQ destroying or mass fire. Depending on what kind of lists you face most often (best to just build an all corners list, tailoring isn't fun), if half the time your not facing MEQ, 1K sons are probably best left out, and if you only face GKs, might as well leave the Zerkers at home...

Thousand Sons look really nice from their stats.