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Hi Dakkanauts, CC here.

My best mate plays Necrons, I play Guard. Does anyone have any tips on thrashing the Necrons with Guard. So far, my best tip is that Heavy Bolters are good.

Depends what kind of Crons list. Playing against the stormlord is different typically then playing the tremorcrons. Also depends what guard list you are running. A gunline, blob or aircav all play a bit differently.

My list (I'm playing for Schools League) is:

Lord Commissar (PW)

Veteran Squad (Sergeant Bastonne, Vox-Caster, Grenadiers, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Flamer, Meltagun)

Veteran Squad (Grenadiers, Grenade Launcher, Sniper Rifle, Meltagun)

Leman Russ Demolisher (Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

How can I make it better?

Make a platoon insead of the 2 vets but if you want vets you cant mix up weapons like flamer and melta. Drop the commie lord unless you want it. but I would Use a CCS with plasma. drop the demolisher and get the LRBT with just bolters. (The LRBT I personal prefer).

...but there are some constants. Exploit the Necrons' weaknesses, to wit -

1) Lack of long range AT capability. (Linked to lack of searchlights in night fighting.) Units you'd normally shy away from as "glass cannons" become viable against almost all Necron lists. They have a few units like Heavy Destroyers, and more commonly Crypteks with Eldritch Lance (s8 ap2 36"), but HD's are rare and lanceteks usually join foot blobs towards the baseline, ie, out of night fighting acquisition range. This mitigates towards choosing flyers, for instance, that're usually too short lived against normal opponents.

Consider a Vendetta squadron, along with the sponson mounted heavy bolters - they'll have opportunities to hover that they normally wouldn't.

hmm.. read the above post while editing this, you're at a pretty low point level, aren't you. Might not need to deal with night fighting, lightning, etc. What exactly is your point limit? At low points Necrons aren't so tough.

Schools league is 600. I tries a platoon, and CCS, but I couldn't get the points down. Also, A LRBT seems a good idea.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:Schools league is 600. I tries a platoon, and CCS, but I couldn't get the points down. Also, A LRBT seems a good idea.

Oh, right, then at that level you'll be fighting a couple troops, some leader, and probably either one wraith unit or one scarab-spyder unit pair. I'd take a destroyer lord w/a wraith unit, but it's totally up in the air.

The answer then seems to be maximize long range firepower. (Hmm, but you're also limited by troop cost.) I'm a Necron player, I'll butt out, the fight is straight-up against a predominantly 24" range opponent w/strong melee potential (including AT melee). Your IG compatriots know your codex best.

Cool.

The Guard's problem is that they can't cause enough damage in their first round of shooting to cause any real damage, considering their standard weapons fire at 24"

Just make sure you nuke the scarabs first turn if he brings any. The risk of him glancing your tanks to death is low.

You can also out-shoot them if you get large blobs of guard in cover at 24'. You may want a HWT to drop any Command Barges he brings, they are popular, and warscythes hurt things...a lot.

Using weapons like heavy bolters that ignore a warrior's armor will also go a long way, and make them less resiliant, and more reliant on their RP.

Just my two cents from the Necron perspective.

I found my mate's Schools League army list:

HQ

Overlord 90pt
Sepiternal weave 15pt
105pt

Royal Court

Cryptek. 25pt
Eldritch lance. 10pt

Cryptek. 25pt
Tremor stave. 5pt

Troops

Immortals x 10. 170pt
Tesla

Immortals x 10. 170pt
Gauss

Heavy support

Annihilation Barge 90pt

Total. 600pt

That's more stuff than I've got!!!!!

If you kill the annihilation barge he's basically just a single strength 8 shot as far as a mechanized guard list is concerned. You should be able to blast out the remaining 23 infantry over 5 turns pretty easily from there.
If you're an infantry blobs list he's got 0 mobility and no night fight activators to protect himself as he crosses a board, missile launchers and such should cull the numbers to manageable size before they reach you and good cover saves will curb the wounds once they do. Also with only 2 units one of which is guass he'll probably leave that one at home on an objective or it'll have a 12" range on the move if it's a KP game so you really only need to kill the tesla squad moving toward you and the barge.

Necrons are pretty sub optimal at such low points values, don't sweat it.

Actinium wrote:
Necrons are pretty sub optimal at such low points values, don't sweat it.

That is not true anymore. Newcrons can be just as good in low points as any other codex. While neither the above necrons list or the OP IG list are optimal, IMO, the necron list is superior.

We're far from the days of 1 vanilla lord and 20 warriors for 500pts but necrons are still much happier in the 1500+pts range, guard can spam heavy weapon teams or take a couple tanks just fine in low point games. I don't play guard so I can't retool his list for him but just a single LRBT will do serious work against that necron list.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:My list (I'm playing for Schools League) is:

Lord Commissar (PW)

Veteran Squad (Sergeant Bastonne, Vox-Caster, Grenadiers, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Flamer, Meltagun)

Veteran Squad (Grenadiers, Grenade Launcher, Sniper Rifle, Meltagun)

Leman Russ Demolisher (Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

How can I make it better?

You are going to want to focus on getting heavy weapons teams. These should be where your AT comes from.

No commissar lord. Get a CCS. Then throw in two heavy weapons teams, preferably lascannons.

If you do veterans squads, you are sacrificing your ability to spam heavy weapons, which you should look into. With those squads, no Bastonne. Vox on both, and no grenadiers. Don't mix special weapons either. Against your friends crons list, I would recommend autocannons and plasma guns. This is up in the air though. I would shy away from flamers, meltas, and snipers. Leaving either grenade launchers or plasma guns.

Last, definately go for a regular LRBT with 3 heavy bolters. It will reek havoc on his Necron.

You should have some points left over, consider vendettas, a penal legion squad or two, or sentinels.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:The Guard's problem is that they can't cause enough damage in their first round of shooting to cause any real damage, considering their standard weapons fire at 24"

You apperently have not being playing guard very much if you really believe this. Done right, a Guard gunline can completely eliminate huge amounts of points. You'll see.

Looking at the Necron list it does seem to be lacking a bit (i hasten to add that i'm not an expert 'cron player).

I'm surprised he's not taking any scarabs at all. In a agme that size where a single tank/dread coudl make or break a game i woudl be defo be taking.

As mentioned above, take a LRBT. The barge can be irksome but the LRBT with AP3 will take out Immortals quite happily, use your HWTs to target the barge and it WILL go (rememeber itis only AV13 until it suffers a single pen hit, then it drops to AV11).

I have had luck using Hellhound variants on necrons, but again it could just be luck. I usually tank shock then turn around and flame them. My guess is that it would work even better in a small game becuase one template can cover almost half his troops. If you take the banewolf he's getting no armor, no cover, and you wound on 2's. All from a fast vehicle for 130 points. It works better with blob guard, though (IMO anyway), becuase it gives them an edge of mobility that they normally wouldn't have. Other than that, autocannons all over the place will clean up fast.

I'd love to help you because I know a ton about guard but the fact is I know nothing about the new necrons

As a general rule, low AP long range weapons are always good. I see grenade launchers and sniper rifles in your list. If not used en masse, these become largely useless and a waste of points when you could have a plasma/meltagun

Thanks for the help guys!!

The Plasma Guns seem a very good idea. I'll look at the rules for autocannons. The Guard's problem is armor - if I get rid of my Grenadiers, I'll only have a 5+ Armor save. A CCS sounds good - my problem before was trying to squeeze in Sergeant Bastonne and Grenadiers. I'll bring back the vox.

Thanks for the tips guys. CC out. Peace

Colonel-Commissar wrote:Thanks for the help guys!!

The Plasma Guns seem a very good idea. I'll look at the rules for autocannons. The Guard's problem is armor - if I get rid of my Grenadiers, I'll only have a 5+ Armor save. A CCS sounds good - my problem before was trying to squeeze in Sergeant Bastonne and Grenadiers. I'll bring back the vox.

Thanks for the tips guys. CC out. Peace

Cover. Keep them in cover = keeping them alive longer.

Mass Autocannons wreck lots of things. Take lascannons though, to break through the quantum shielding. Otherwise, a Russ will see you right. Don't forget the ordnance rules.

IIRC, you can get two russes and a gak ton of troops in 600 points if you take it all pretty much bare.

Good luck!

How about?

Lord C.

Platoon CMD; 1 flamer
Squad; Lascannon
Squad; Lascannon

Hydra w/HB
Hydra w/HB
Griffon w/HF
Vendetta

The Platoon Command can go in the gunship, the LC can go in the Infantry Squads.
Lascannons for taking out the AV13 stuff, Hydra's and Griffon mop up.

Appreciate you may not have the models, but you can see how much you can pack in a Guard list if you don't fall foul of upgrading every unit.

How about:

CCS
vox

Platoon:

PCS
vox

5x Infantry squads
3 Sgts w/ melta bombs, vox

Veteran squad
lascannon

LRBT
Lascannon,

I'm going for target saturation

These are interesting options...

My new prototype would be:

CCS
vox, plasma gun

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, heavy bolter

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, missile launcher

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, lascannon

Demolisher
heavy bolters, lascannon

I think that would work. I'll find out...

Colonel-Commissar wrote:These are interesting options...

My new prototype would be:

CCS
vox, plasma gun

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, heavy bolter

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, missile launcher

Veteran Squad
vox, plasma gun, lascannon

Demolisher
heavy bolters, lascannon

I think that would work. I'll find out...

Remember. You are Imperial Guard. Your men are going to die. And quick. When you are thinking of lists, do not assume that you will be taking armor saves. Because in most cases, you won't. I always assume that whatever my oponnent shoots with, its going to ignore my 5+ armor. Don't worry about the grenadiers, especially in a small points game.

As a Guard player, you should be looking to spam either as many special and heavy weapons, vehicles, or men as you possibly can. Guard are not a balanced force, i.e one unit (besides the good old russ) will not be effective at more than one or two things. Don't try to make them by wasting points on grenadiers.

That being said, it is better, but only having one plasma gun in the command squad doesn't do all that much. It's 15 points that could be wasted doing nothing, instead go for a heavy weaqon. Probably an autocannon.

Get rid of the heavy bolter in the first vet squad. Replace it with an autocannon, and maybe do the same with the second vet squad as well.

Your demolisher costs 200 points. That's 1/3 of your total force! Go for the three heavy bolter LRBT instead. It's 30 points cheaper and you'll get the same effect.

So with the couple points you saved (35) can get either: a bare scout sentinel OR a Master of the Ordinance OR two more plasma guns for your veteran squads.

Your call.

Colonel-Commissar wrote:Cool.

The Guard's problem is that they can't cause enough damage in their first round of shooting to cause any real damage, considering their standard weapons fire at 24"

I suffered from this issue. This thread can offer some more answers for you http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436140.page

The other issue was that I was shooting units with reanimation protocols.... next time i wont even shoot at those guys until everything else is dead. Theres nothing worse than seeing half of your turns hard work go for naught.

~Lion~

Cool ideas. Will having an LRBT without lascannons give me much AT punch? Extra plasma guns does sound good though. I could chew Marines players to dust...

Well, with the LRBT, you can only have one lascannon. It's 15 points, and you can only have one shot with it. At BS 3. Too much of an investment if you ask me. The purpose of the tank is more to get a large blast marker onto your enemies units. They will fear it, and in many cases will change the way they play (such as changing their deployment and movements, which can screw people up pretty bad sometimes).

You really shouldn't be relying on it for your AT. Not to say it can't, there are just better uses for it. That's what your heavy weapons are for. Sure you can outfit them with heavy bolters, but why would you do that when you can get a much better effect from using a LRBT instead. Your heavy weapon teams will kill the enemy armor with either lacannons, missle launchers, or autocannons. I swear by lacannons personally.

Here's your problem (and why heavy weapons squads in platoons are great): Your veterans squads are going to have the heavy weapons, i.e the AT capabilities. BUT there is only one of these weapons in a squad. That means when you shoot with them to kill their armor, you are foregoing all your other shooting from the squad. And it's only one shot (with the lascannon and ML) which means it might all be for naught if they miss. That's why the "Bring it Down" order is imperative.

So what to do? In this situation, I would stick with the heavy weapon teams in the squads and CCS. It's risky, but if you want Veteran Squads, it's what you'll have to do.

In this case, the LRBT> Demolisher. You need to take out as many of their number before they can retaliate against your men, so the huge range increase cuts into his forces before they can get their shots off. So it's almost like you get a free couple of blast shots off before anything else fires. The Demolisher's increase in Strength and AP 2 won't matter for anything in this fight, the LRBT's AP and strength is more than enough.

What is the LRBT's AP?

You state the case against LRBT Lascannons very well. I now agree with you.

I experimented with platoons, but at 600pts it's a little tricky to make them any good.

An added bonus to the 9-shot LRBT is that I can halve any horde squad in a turn of shooting!!!

Looking at the Necron list I would be more concerned, as a Necron player, that you are going to take out my Immortals. The Barge is nasty, but its not going to win most games by itself. I wouldn't use the Tremortek in that list at all, as it doesn't benefit from Orikan or a C'tan. I think a Veiltek is more useful. At any rate, can you take any STR 8 large blasts to double out the Immortal's toughness? They are 4 now, not 5.

It's good getting the point of view of a Necron player - provided they're scared!!

My friend is also threatening to maybe try and fit in The Traveler.

I should point out that my gaming club also includes a Grey Knights/Dark Eldar player, and another Guardsman (with a Manticore), so I kind of need to tailor my list for that.

But the Necrons are my biggest worry...

The LRBT has a STR 8 Large Blast that is AP3 and ordinance. It'll kill everything except termies. You can also take on vehicles with it if you need to because with ordinance you roll 2D6 for pen and take the highest one (not quite melta, but it beats just rolling one!) so your odds of penetrating go way up. Great tank, and personally I think the vanilla Russ is the best Russ.