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Report from game with Shaun from Sunday. Taking my Purifiers as not played with them against Space Wolves before. Prior to game I suggested to Shaun to make some minor list changes i.e remove plasma pistol from Wolf Lord and add storm shield and ditch the lascannon from Long Fangs and add a plasma cannon. I'll also be giving him some help, particularly with his Thunderwolves as he's never run beasts before.

Grey Knights 'Purifer Order' - 2,000 points


HQ

Castellan Crowe

Elite

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammo & searchlight
Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt ammo & searchlight

Troops

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer

Heavy Support

Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt & searchlight
Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannon, psybolt & searchlight



Space Wolves - 2,000 points

HQ

Wolf Lord - power fist, storm shield, wolftooth necklace, thunderwolf mount, 2 x fenrisian wolves & saga of the warrior born
Rune Priest - living lightning, jaws of the world wolf & chooser of the slain

Elite

5 x Scouts - meltagun & melta bombs

Troops

10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x flamers & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns & mark of the wulfren

Fast Attack

Land Speeder - typhoon missile launcher
4 x Thunderwolf Cavalry - 2 x storm shields & power fist

Heavy Support

5 x Long Fangs - 2 x missile launchers & 2 x plasma cannons
5 x Long Fangs - 2 x missile launchers & 2 x plasma cannons

Pre-Game Analysis

I think this is going to be a interesting game. Shaun has got some decent fire power to tackle my Rhinos and Dreadnoughts plus plasma cannons to melta through my power armour along with Thunderwolves to rip gak up.

I've never played against Thunderwolves before, so this would be interesting. I know they can reach assault quickly as they as beasts (which I am familiar with) and have a bucket load of rending attacks. I think force weapons or hammerhand nemesis hammers are the way forward here.

The rest of the Wolves I should be able to deal with, though those large squads of Grey Hunters will be tough, as even if I charge them there's a chance they could get counter attack. I'll have to tag team them and send two units of Purifiers onto them.

Game: Seize Ground + Pitched Battle

Deployment

Originally we did roll for dawn of war, then Shaun clocked on about issues for his Long Fangs. Re-rolled and got pitched battle .

I can't remember who won the roll off (I think it me), though I went second, now second is great for me as it gives me that last turn to grab objectives and also Shaun will roll into my shooting range while I stay static.

Shaun deploys first and I advise him to put the Thunderwolves behind his four Rhinos so I cannot draw LOS, he does this. He puts both his Long Fangs high up in ruins between the Rhinos, Priest is with a unit on the left flank. I suggest to Shaun to relocat the unit on the right as they are only on the first floor and there LOS is partially blocked by the shrine ruin, he puts them on the second floor and they can see loads better. Speeder deploys on the left flank near the Priest-Fang unit.

I deploy my entire force in the centre between two ruins. I place three Rhinos at the front side ways on and then the other three behind, though one is side on to give better cover to the Dreadnoughts behind. I have a Venerable on each side with the normal Dreadnoughts in the centre, all are getting cover from the Rhinos.

Objectives had been previously placed, one on the left flank 12" from my table edge and about 12" away from my Rhinos. One in the centre in a tower ruin and the other top right flank 12" from Shaun's edge near the Fangs on the right flank.







* Tactical Notes

Right, this is going to be a interesting game. If Shaun comes forward 12" first turn it should put him into my psycannon range, bad news is if I stay static to get maximum shots the Thunderwolves will be able to charge me next turn and auto hit my tanks. Choices, choices. While Shaun's missile launcher count isn't as high as most S.W lists, he does have plasma cannons which can BBQ my troops once he starts taking out my vehicles.

My plan is to torrent the Rune Priest's unit of Long Fangs first to take away long range fire power, at least until the missile launchers are dead. I know the Priest may have problems thanks to reinforced aegis, though that's a possibility of a lot of shots if psychic tests pass. I'll then psycannon the melta Rhinos, or any Rhinos which maybe blocking them and create a traffic jam. After I'll assault those Thunderwolves and force weapon or hammerhand them.

Turn 1

Space Wolves first turn; Rhinos move out 6" and the front ones pop smoke, Thunderwolves hide behind. Speeder adjusts a little bit - that's it!

Shooting; Fangs and Priest blast a Rhino, thanks to reinforced aegis the Priest fails his psychic test, lol, I don't think the unit does any damage. Speeder fires and wrecks the same Rhino. Other Long Fangs split fire and drop plasma cannons on a Rhino and do nothing while missiles shake the centre front Rhino.

Grey Knights first turn; everything holds position. I attempt fortitude on the shaken Rhino and I roll snake eyes, I take a glancing hit and the tank is shaken again, great. I decide to leave the squad in for the time being.

Shooting; one front unit is just out of range with psycannons at a flamer unit as Shaun had wisely held his tanks back. The Purifiers now on foot manage to blast the same flamer Rhino and it is wrecked - squad passes pinning test. One Dreadnought fires and wrecks the Speeder while others torrent the Priest-Fang unit, two missile launchers and the squad leader is dead - squad passes morale. I fire some autocannons into the Rhinos and immobilise a melta Rhino.







* Tactical Notes

Not a too bad start I don't think. I've taken out a Rhino carrying a flamer unit, so they are on foot now and immobilised a Rhino carrying a melta squad. The Typhoon has been slagged and a unit of Long Fangs have taken a beating, that's a lot of missile launchers down for the count.

Shaun hasn't done too bad either, he's taken out a Rhino so next turn I expect those Purifiers to eat plasma cannons. They should be getting cover though.

Next turn I'll torrent the other Fang unit to reduce missile launchers and start blasting Rhinos. As Shaun has kept the Thunderwolves back he has given me a little breathing room for another turn.

Turn 2

Shaun's second turn; I suggest to Shaun to move the operational Rhinos carrying plasma and melta units forward, bail them out and slag the exposed Purifiers and nuke a Rhino - Shaun does this. He holds the melta unit inside the immobilised Rhino while the flamer unit moves behind the shrine to block LOS. The Thunderwolves then use the centre tower ruin to block LOS and flank around in it in a outflank style.

Shooting; double meltas fire and score minor damage on the front right Rhino, whole Long Fangs fire at the same target and wreck it. Rune Priest and plasma-Fangs fire at rear left Rhino, Priest fails psychic test thanks to reinforced aegis and plasma cannons do nothing. Plasma guns and boltguns tear up the exposed Purifiers from the previous turn, only the Justicar survives and he has a big hammer to get some revenge!

G.K turn; I move up the single Justicar and the exposed Purifier unit towards the Space Wolves who shot at my silver Marines. I attempt fortitude on the shaken Rhino again and fail perils with a double 6, now that I think that it, that was a total noob mistake as it was shaken from my own turn with perils! Instead I bail the squad out and they move up to support the single Justicar.

Shooting; I fire psycannons into both exposed Space Wolf units to deplete their numbers and kill 3 Marines from each unit, shockingly both units fail morale and fall back. It's touch and go whether I can assault the melta unit, though the plasma unit is no doubt out of range. Autocannons fire into the full strength Long Fangs and I kill the Sgt and a missile launcher Space Wolf.

Assault; one Purifier unit charges the melta Grey Hunters, they pass counter attack test btw. I cast cleansing flame and get rubbish results, only wound a single Wolf who passes armour save. At the end of combat I have four Purifiers left and two Wolves remain, my hammers got me the win, though Grey Hunters hold in combat.





* Tactical Notes

Things still aren't going too bad for me at the moment, a melta unit is almost finished and more missile launchers have been depleted. Bad times though is that the plasma unit failed morale and fallen back, next turn they will come back and shoot the gak out of me, sad panda. I am also expecting those Thunderwolves to flank around and now be in the fight, good job Crowe is hiding away in the large ruin to my left, he's not a c.c machine, but could slow them down with blade shield.

Next turn I'll no doubt finish off that melta unit. I'll start blasting Thunderwolves as they will come close as well.

Turn 3

Shaun rolls for reserves and the Wolf Scouts arrive, like a noob I totally forgot them and had my Dreadnoughts placed close to the table edge, luckily Shaun rolls badly and they appear on my right flank in the open.

Wolves third turn; flamer unit moves into the shrine ruin, I later find out that Shaun got confused, lol, and thought the marker for the chooser of the slain was a objective, I guess both the chooser and objectives were both green. Plasma unit auto regroups and smashes through the centre ruin brandishing plasma guns. Thunderwolves move around and run, they are easily in charge range of exposed Purifiers and Rhinos. I suggest to Shaun to split the thunder-lord as his S10 power fist will easily wreck Rhinos and clear the way to blast Dreadnoughts, who won't have cover. Shaun does this.

Shooting; Both Long Fangs fire at Dreadnoughts and the plasma cannons do well, one Dreadnought is wrecked and the other gets a arm ripped off. Plasma guns fire into the Purifiers and leave a few remaining.

Assault; Thunder-lord fails to reach the Rhino by 1" and sits out in the open. Thunderwolves multi assault the now depleted Purifiers and the single Justicar, both units of Grey Knights are wiped out, Thunderwolves are safe thanks to storm shields. Purifiers beat the two Grey Hunters in combat and consolidate towards the plasma unit.

Grey Knights turn; I get two Purifier units out of the Rhinos ready to beat down on the Thunderwolves. Crowe moves out of terrain ready to engage the Thunder-Lord while the depleted Purifiers which beat the melta Grey Hunters move around to tackle the plasma unit. The Venerable on the right flank moves to get better LOS on the Wolf Scouts.

Shooting; Crowe fires at the Thunder-Lord and does nothing. Psycannons and storm bolters fire into the Thunderwolves and I kill a whole Thunderwolf and put a wound on the power fist - unit pass morale. Purifiers which just beat the melta Grey Hunters in combat fire at the plasma Grey Hunters, I only manage to kill one. Venerable blasts the Wolf Scouts and kills two - they pass morale.

Assault; Crowe charges the Thunder-Lord and I use rapier strike, cause no wounds and Crowe gets fisted - should have used blade shield! Two Purifier units charge the Thunderwolves, I cast hammerhand and Wolves pass counter attack test. After the dust has settled one unit of Purifiers is wiped out and another unit has four left, though S10 hammers made short work of the Thunderwolves and they are all dead. Purifiers charge the plasma Grey Hunters, I cast hammerhand and Shaun gets off counter attack, a single Grey Hunter remains who passes morale.









* Tactical Notes

It's not going too bad at the moment, Thunderwolves are dead, Wolf Lord has taken some fire and now got 3 wounds left and lost his doggy bodyguard. Melta unit is dead and plasma is almost wiped out. Though, I've still got to defend the centre objective, at the moment I am only contesting it.

Shaun isn't doing too badly. He has taken out a Dreadnought and halved the fire power of another. He might be able to turn things around in his upcoming turn as the Thunder-Lord is free to charge whoever he wants and I've got Purifiers out in the open ready to eat plasma.

Turn 4

Shaun realises about the chooser of the slain isn't really a objective and moves his flamer Grey Hunters through terrain to support the single melta Grey Hunter in combat. I suggest to Shaun to move the Thunder-Lord through terrain and assault the Venerable Dreadnought, doing this will take it out or stop it shooting - Shaun does this. The melta unit which had bailed out the immobilised Rhino the previous turn takes the objective Shaun's side while the Wolf Scouts move and run forward, though they are still Venerable Dreadnought bait.

Shooting; plasma cannons and frags from the Long Fangs on the right blast the Purifiers out in the open and kill all but one. I think that's it.

Assault; Thunder-Lord charges the Venerable Dreadnought on the left, Dreadnought fails to hit and is immobilised, stunned and loses a arm in combat. Flamer Grey Hunters charge the Purifiers, unit casts cleansing flame and kills three before combat starts, I think Grey Hunters lose combat, can't remember, though combat rages on.

Grey Knights turn; I move the Rhino on the right flank which still holds a unit of Purifiers through terrain towards the objective on the left flank and the objective is claimed by the squad inside. Two empty Rhinos speed 12" up the board and pop smoke. The single Purifier jumps into the Rhino contesting the centre objective, the Rhino moves to get cover from one Long Fang unit and so it doesn't get auto hit in assault. Venerable moves to get better LOS on the Wolf Scouts.

Shooting; Venerable Dreadnought gibs the last Wolf Scouts. Dreadnought with one arm blasts one of the Space Wolves Rhinos which moved back in Shaun's turn and immobilises it and rips off the storm bolter, this has actually blocked the other Rhino.

Assault; Venerable Dreadnought is only stunned this time, though fails to even hit. Purifiers lose combat against the surviving plasma Grey Hunter and flamer unit, both units consolidate and park under the objective in in the tower ruin.



* Tactical Notes

Ok, it looks like next turn is possibily going to be a draw, my two Rhinos speeding ahead won't get close to Shaun's objective and I haven't got enough fire power to rid the two squads on the centre objective. Game wise it's going ok, though I've taken some damage as I've only got a single Purifier left and then a full squad. I am running low on mobile tanks as well.

Turn 5

Both the Grey Hunters move up through the tower ruin and contest that objective. I think that's it.

Shooting; Long Fangs blast the Dreadnought with the broken arm and it goes boom while the other unit blasts the Rhino on the centre objective and do nothing, plasma cannons just don't cut it against vehicles

Assault; Thunder-Lord rips off the other arm of the Venerable Dreadnought.

Grey Knights turn; I attempt to move one Rhino through the shrine ruin and it is immobilised, I move the other up so it stops at the corner, don't want to get too close to those meltas! Venerable Dreadnought flanks around the ruin is was position by when sniping Wolf Scouts and targets the melta Grey Hunters on Shaun's objective. Rhino moves out through terrain and parks on the left flank objective and pops smoke.

Shooting; Venerable Dreadnought fires at the Grey Hunters and fails to kill any. Single hammerfier inside the Rhino contesting the centre objective fires storm bolter at the Grey Hunters along with other Rhino storm bolters, think I kill a Space Wolf. I think that's it.

Assault; Thunder-Lord wrecks the Venerable and consolidates into terrain ready to attack the Rhino on the left objective if there is a next turn.











* Tatical Notes

Ok, if the game ends I've got a draw on my hands. It's been a epic, tough battle. If there's a next turn I'll plough the mobile Rhino through terrain and contest Shaun's objective. I am also concerned about the Thunder-Lord, he is going to smack my Rhino on the left objective, I just hope hammerhand nemesis daemon hammers and instagib him.

Turn 6

The Thunder-Lord moves through terrain and is ready to pounce on my Rhino. I think that's it.

Shooting; living lightning manages to shine this turn as no reinforced aegis is close, the Rhino on the left objective is wrecked and the Purifiers stand in the open. Long Fangs on the right flank blast the operational Rhino and score weapon destroyed and shaken, I can deal with that as my tank is still moving

Assault; Thunder-Lord charges the Purifiers, I cast hammerhand for S10 hammer goodness, the Thunder-Lord goes splat through kills four Purifiers, the survive consolidates behind the Rhino and claims the objective.

Grey Knights turn; I move the Rhino 12" through terrain and land within 3" of Shaun's objective. Shooting wise I fire autocannons at the melta Grey Hunters and kill one while storm bolters blast Grey Hunters on the centre objective.

We roll for next turn and it ends here. Grey Knights pick up a hard earned sneaky win









Summary

That game was a true slobber knocker . I think that's the worst beating my Purifiers have ever taken. Having a look back I've got two infantry models left, one Dreadnought and three Rhinos left, though two of those Rhinos have got damage on them.

I felt the game went well, though I made a few mistakes. Big noob mistake was casting fortitude when there was no good and causing my tank to be shaken again. I just see shaken/stunned results and start throwing dice about, I really should pay attention more. Another mistake was using rapier strike with Crowe, should have gone blade shield like I thought as Crowe is gak in combat, plus I forgot he can re-roll to hit when assaulting. Ah well, live and learn.

Shaun played a very good game. I did help him out in a few places, though most of it he done himself. Was pretty amusing when he thought his own chooser of the slain was a objective, lol.

I think Shaun's biggest mistake was not ringing his melta Grey Hunters around his objective, this would have stopped me contesting and made the game a draw.

His list is pretty cool, those Thunderwolves were pretty badass even against force weapons and it took a bucket of hammers to smash them to bits. I think if he adds melta bombs to one of the shield guys and takes another Typhoon it will be spot on. I also wouldn't normally suggest plasma cannons, though Shaun's scatter dice supernaturally always hit and that plasma toasted any infantry it touched, crap against vehicles though, well tell a lie, took out two Dreadnoughts with it.

That's why you take missile launchers on all your long fangs and bring saga of the bear so the lord can't be ID'd... His list was ok but by far not the best thunderwolf list I've seen, which is funny that he tore you up so bad...

Good report as always!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also really stupid of him not advancing the priest so he could nullify your powers. Priests belong with the hunters not the fangs...

Yeah, I sort of agree on missile launchers. It was nice to see plasma cannons as they baked infantry piece of piss. Was rubbish against Rhinos, though lucky rolls on Dreadnoughts.

He caused a lot of damage didn't he. Not to take anything away, though I did give him a bit of help . I think it was my squads getting in combat, too many Grey Hunters to take out, plus they get counter attack too. Those Thunderwolves also took out just over two Purifier units on their own.

Depends what you're using the Priest for. Living lightning is fine with Long Fangs, though a bad point is the psychic defense is at the back of the board. To be fair, the Priest couldn't go in any Rhino anyway.

Thanks about the report as well

Yea TWC is crazy, they are faster then hell too.

Yea I meant he should make room for the priest... I don't like LL actually, it never performs as well for me as storm caller.... Giving the rhinos additional protection and then the inevitable ground force a cover save is too valuable IMO... I generally only bring LL if I have multiple priests as they need to be different somehow and it occasionally takes out a speeder or truk lol. And if he is also taking Jaws is is useless to hang back in an aggressive wolf list.

I think the biggest nightmare for your GK list is your red flea list.... FNP assault marines tear up purifiers.

I play against another regular S.W player along with Shaun, plus some others from time to time, all of them use living lightning and it feths my gak up every time. I understand what you mean about the anit psychic defense though.

How so on jaws? Is it 24" line?

Yup, feel no pain is tough against the shooting, then the numbers just overwhelm the Purifiers. The weakness of the Fleas is the I.C's, at least in kill points anyway.

mercer wrote:How so on jaws? Is it 24" line?

Yes. I believe it even hits your units. So if you're hanging back it'll probably never get used.

Hmm, I just checked out the codex, doesn't say anything about S.W models been affected. Unless there's a FAQ? Though 24" is half way across the board, with units moving forward it's possible to get a few things, though I agree, it's not the best power for a static unit/model.

mercer wrote:Hmm, I just checked out the codex, doesn't say anything about S.W models been affected. Unless there's a FAQ? Though 24" is half way across the board, with units moving forward it's possible to get a few things, though I agree, it's not the best power for a static unit/model.

It traces a line, and everything under that line is affected. The first unit can't be friendly (because that's your target unit and you can't target friendlies) but there's nothing in the rule saying anyone else is safe.
edit: It's probably worth asking in YMDC if you're really curious - there's smarter people than me in there.

I agree with some of the other assessments here - the Space Wolves could have been built/played a bit better (Rune Priest with the GH to nullify powers, Saga of the Bear on the Lord, etc), but seemed to do well in any case.

I'm always debating if it's worth it more to cast cleansing flame or hammer hand vs MEQ troops. Vs FNP BA it's always hammer hand but vs say 5 purifiers with some halberds vs 10 grey hunters, I'm not sure which way the math favors.

saga of the bear really is essential for the wolf lord. Makes him a very tough nut to crack with all that armor and Toughness. Evading force weapons and Str 10 hits is key

Just curious but did you try to heroic sacrifice crowe? I didn't see you say he cast anything else so I'm assuming that you could have still done that.

Yea Thats what I thought he was planning but I assumed he had a good reason rather then that he missed it. Heroic sac is BS if your on the receiving end lol.

Great reports as always mercer, I respect you for your choices to help your friend make the most tactically correct choices time and time again. Also your lists are very solid, your BA, your DE, your GK. I read most of your reports and have rarely if ever commented, just wanted to say thank you for posting them and keep it up. I would love to get a game in against you, you seem to be a very solid player. Sadly you are in the UK and I assume dont come to US for tournaments.

In my opinion, you shouldnt have given those advice.

He should have placed the TWC forward, and provide target saturation. There is no point putting them behind and letting the rhinos roll forward first.

Also, i m surprised rhinos block LOS to TWCs...

yeah I dont know if I'd have tied up my ~300 point character with a dred for 2 whole game turns either. Guess cause he didnt have saga of the bear it was safer than the purifiers, with eternal warrior he pretty much couldve rolled through your troops.

but I did notice that crowe didnt use heroic sacrifice on the wolflord...wouldve made my whole above comment moot. IMO crowe is only good for bladeshield/cleansing flame on hordes of infantry and heroic sacrifice on the big guys

just my 2 cents

I felt you gave him honest tips but many of them felt rather risky as well like chargin the rhino alone and then be out in the open for shooting and for crowe to possibly hold him busy for the rest of the game. Now that didn't happen but could have very easily.
Anyways only thing i noticed that didn't matter anyways was that you said that *the wold lord now has 3 wounds left and lost his doggy bodyguard* wll the Wold Lord only has 3 wounds to begin with

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I agree with some of the other assessments here - the Space Wolves could have been built/played a bit better (Rune Priest with the GH to nullify powers, Saga of the Bear on the Lord, etc), but seemed to do well in any case.

Some of the wargear on the Thunder-Lord was added before game due to my suggestions. If I knew about saga of the bear I would have suggested it. I'll be mentioned it to Shaun as it is a worthy piece of wargear.

sudojoe wrote:I'm always debating if it's worth it more to cast cleansing flame or hammer hand vs MEQ troops. Vs FNP BA it's always hammer hand but vs say 5 purifiers with some halberds vs 10 grey hunters, I'm not sure which way the math favors.

saga of the bear really is essential for the wolf lord. Makes him a very tough nut to crack with all that armor and Toughness. Evading force weapons and Str 10 hits is key

Just curious but did you try to heroic sacrifice crowe? I didn't see you say he cast anything else so I'm assuming that you could have still done that.

It depends. You still need to hit which is the problem, though wound more. Cleansing flame can kill a few more Marines before combat starts and give you the edge.

I agree about saga of the bear.

I totally forgot about heroic sacrifice, nice one for pointing it out. I rarely use Crowe, he just hides like a coward. I also forgot he can re-roll to hit when charging as well. Uber fail with Crowe.

Red Corsair wrote:Yea Thats what I thought he was planning but I assumed he had a good reason rather then that he missed it. Heroic sac is BS if your on the receiving end lol.

I totally forgot, dude!

Clauss wrote:Great reports as always mercer, I respect you for your choices to help your friend make the most tactically correct choices time and time again. Also your lists are very solid, your BA, your DE, your GK. I read most of your reports and have rarely if ever commented, just wanted to say thank you for posting them and keep it up. I would love to get a game in against you, you seem to be a very solid player. Sadly you are in the UK and I assume dont come to US for tournaments.

Thanks, man, I appreciate you taking the time to comment as you rarely do.

Would love to come to the U.S for a holiday/tournament play, I need a bank loan after I get married I think

Isseyfaran wrote:In my opinion, you shouldnt have given those advice.

He should have placed the TWC forward, and provide target saturation. There is no point putting them behind and letting the rhinos roll forward first.

Also, i m surprised rhinos block LOS to TWCs...

I think it's fair to ask why do you think I shouldn't have given advice?

I can tell you why I did give advice though, it's because I am like Vect and tired of winning. Sure some of the players which I do play aren't that skilled, though others are pretty decent and I still beat them too.

Putting the Thunderwolves in front of the Rhinos would have definitely created target saturation, however with those been at the front I would have shot the gak out of them first with 48 psycannon shots, I doubt there would be a lot or any Thunderwolves left.

Rhinos block LOS to Thunderwolves no problem. You seen the Thunderwolf models? They are smaller than a Dreadnought and a Dreadnought can easily get cover from a Rhino.

thanatos67 wrote:yeah I dont know if I'd have tied up my ~300 point character with a dred for 2 whole game turns either. Guess cause he didnt have saga of the bear it was safer than the purifiers, with eternal warrior he pretty much couldve rolled through your troops.

but I did notice that crowe didnt use heroic sacrifice on the wolflord...wouldve made my whole above comment moot. IMO crowe is only good for bladeshield/cleansing flame on hordes of infantry and heroic sacrifice on the big guys

just my 2 cents

Charging the Venerable Dreadnought was my suggestion. The reason for it is that the Dreadnoughts cause major destruction, I would have thought a power fist with 6 attacks with 3+ to hit would have taken it out sooner. Shaun did get some bad dice rolls in combat, sometimes he only hit twice and other times penetrated once.

I totally forgot about heroic sacrifice. In my defense I rarely use Crowe in a game, he just hides away. I also forgot about re-rolling to hit when Crowe charges. You're right about what Crowe should do, blade shield is what I normally use and should have done in this case.

Fenric wrote:I felt you gave him honest tips but many of them felt rather risky as well like chargin the rhino alone and then be out in the open for shooting and for crowe to possibly hold him busy for the rest of the game. Now that didn't happen but could have very easily.
Anyways only thing i noticed that didn't matter anyways was that you said that *the wold lord now has 3 wounds left and lost his doggy bodyguard* wll the Wold Lord only has 3 wounds to begin with

The Thunder-Lord charging Rhino I did mention to Shaun that the Lord will be out in the open, however he has got 2+ armour, 3+ invulnerable, T5 and about 6 wounds or something. It would have taken a lot of kill the Lord. The bonus was that the Rhino the Lord could have charged would have cleared the way for the Long Fangs to target Rhinos and Dreadnoughts at the rear, those units would previously got cover if the Rhino in question was there. Plus I used the very same Rhino to contest the centre objective and act as a bunker for the single hammerifier who was left.

Bah, you're right about the Thunder-Lord's wound count, Shaun told me he had four wounds, cheating scum!

I've played against Space Wolves 3x with my Purifiers and each time, they have given me a tough, bloody fight. That speaks to the quality of the codex itself. Grey hunter squads with wolf guard sergeants will give 5-man PAGK units a lot of problems. Don't expect to beat a 10-man counter-attacking GH unit with a 5-man GK unit (besides paladins) unless you can weaken that unit first. I think as your opponent gains more experience, you can expect a fight similar to that of your Red Fleas vs your Purifier Order. It'll definitely be a much tougher fight.

Was tough, Jy2, I think counter attack helps a great deal as well. Only time I had the edge was when it was multiple Purifiers or I charged and laid the smackdown with 6 nemesis hammers

You're lucky he's just running vanilla GH units. More typical, competitive GH units would go something like this:

8-9x GH - Melta, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
Wolf Guard - Combi-melta + Power Fist

That unit should be able to lay waste to any charging 5-man MSU unit that assaults it without help.

Yeah I know about the Wolf Guard. He has tried them before and they don't do a fat lot and cost points. He rarely fails leadership or counter attack. Another mate dabbled with Space Wolves and found the same thing.

Totally agree that setup would waste or seriously damage Purifiers in combat whether either unit charged.

I'm pretty sure you're str 9 with hammer hand not str 10 just like furious charge makes nobs str 9 not ten.

bagtagger wrote:I'm pretty sure you're str 9 with hammer hand not str 10 just like furious charge makes nobs str 9 not ten.

incorrect, hammerhand specifically states s10

jy2 wrote:You're lucky he's just running vanilla GH units. More typical, competitive GH units would go something like this:

8-9x GH - Melta, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
Wolf Guard - Combi-melta + Power Fist

That unit should be able to lay waste to any charging 5-man MSU unit that assaults it without help.

Agreed. The Wolf Standard is incredibly good.

Grundz wrote:

bagtagger wrote:I'm pretty sure you're str 9 with hammer hand not str 10 just like furious charge makes nobs str 9 not ten.

incorrect, hammerhand specifically states s10

oh my, Mat ward realy needs a leash


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that note, saga of the bear is way better on models with weapons that strike a I1 than the saga of the warrior born.

bagtagger wrote:

Grundz wrote:

bagtagger wrote:I'm pretty sure you're str 9 with hammer hand not str 10 just like furious charge makes nobs str 9 not ten.

incorrect, hammerhand specifically states s10

oh my, Mat ward realy needs a leash

Yeah, I really enjoyed the old GK codex and got really ramped up for the new one, I loved the whole elite, tactical shifting with S6 basic weapons and if you made a mistake you were in big trouble. New GK are no fun :(

Cool terrain!

mercer wrote:I think it's fair to ask why do you think I shouldn't have given advice?

I can tell you why I did give advice though, it's because I am like Vect and tired of winning. Sure some of the players which I do play aren't that skilled, though others are pretty decent and I still beat them too.

Putting the Thunderwolves in front of the Rhinos would have definitely created target saturation, however with those been at the front I would have shot the gak out of them first with 48 psycannon shots, I doubt there would be a lot or any Thunderwolves left.

Rhinos block LOS to Thunderwolves no problem. You seen the Thunderwolf models? They are smaller than a Dreadnought and a Dreadnought can easily get cover from a Rhino.

The psycannons would equally be able to harm the rhinos ANYWAY. The TWCs are in fact harder targets than a few rhinos. Anything that could decimate the TWCs will be able to decimate the rhinos. By asking him to deploy his TWC behind, you were able to pick off his army PIECEMEAL- the rhinos, then the TWC. What good is it EVEN IF i have kept my TWCs alive, but with them not doing anything, and leaving all my rhinos crippled? This is not strategy for him, and not target saturation.

Giving advice is ok. But your advice didnt do him any good.

As for your complaint about being bored because you always win, you can only blame it on yourself for not wanting to step out of your small pond and attend GTs. Of course you ve mentioned your reasons before, but i m just telling you too bad then. You can't have everything/ or the best of both worlds.

Btw (just sharing personal experience), it is a totally different experience playing 40k with only the best in large tournaments, and playing only with people within your own community. It feels like 2 different 40k altogether. It's amazing :-).

I have to disagree with what you're saying about the Thunderwolves. The Wolves are a higher priority threat to me than Rhinos. I can stop Rhinos with stunned or immobilised results or slow the infantry down with wrecked or explodes results. Thunderwolves can really close that gap quick, and if I am not moving tanks (to get maximum psycannon shots) then they will auto hit and take out those tanks. By keeping those Thunderwolves behind the Rhinos it allowed them to reach my lines and cause some damage.

Nothing has been picked off piecemeal at all as everything moves up together. Rhinos stay together and Thunderwolves behind. Everything is in one formation. I just have to target priority like I do in any game. You could say I am picking off his army piecemeal by shooting the Thunderwolves first and then the Rhinos. I don't understand your point about this or what you're trying to say. I don't think you read the report probably as you'll see he had plenty of target saturation, everything was altogether.

You're right that anything which can damage the Rhinos can damage the Thunderwolves, not sure what your point is on this.

I think my advice let those Thunderwolves reach my lines instead of me picking them off first turn and giving his infantry some breathing room. If his Thunderwolves were at the front like you suggested then they wouldn't even play a part in the game at all besides dying.

As you've said, I've also mentioned why I don't go to tournaments, plus there's not G.T's in the UK anyway. I don't think there's anything to blame there at all, it's a choice, people just need to step up their game or I need to be more selective about who I play.

I can't see how playing toy soliders at a gaming club or at your mates or a local tournament is going to be any different in a larger tournament. Things are just going to be more stricter rule wise and better players.

Its an okay batrep. I do think some of the advice you offered ended up not helping your opponent and actually helping you... especially with the mounted Wolf Lord (which should have Saga of the Bear).

Which advice in particular with the Wolf Lord?

In my defence about saga of the bear, I am not a Space Wolves player and didn't know you could get eternal warrior. If I did then I would strongly recommend that saga over the one Shaun did take.