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If the stank has used all it's steam points in it's own close combat turn, does that mean that it has no attacks in the enemy's turn??

Jayo'r wrote:If the stank has used all it's steam points in it's own close combat turn, does that mean that it has no attacks in the enemy's turn??

You can save steam points, so in your opponents turn, you just get whacked on.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Jayo'r wrote:If the stank has used all it's steam points in it's own close combat turn, does that mean that it has no attacks in the enemy's turn??

You can't save steam points, so in your opponents turn, you just get whacked on.

-Matt

Fixed

A better pair of questions:

Can a Steam Tank combat reform?

Does a Steam Tank take dangerous terrain when moving through a wood (not charging?)

To expand a little: the Steam Tank is a chariot now under the FAQ. Calvary and Chariots take dangerous terrain tests when marching or charging through a wood. The Steam Tank does not technically march under it's Steam Point driven movement.

Yes, it can combat reform, as there is no prohibition from chariots doing so.

No, as it didn't march, charge, flee, pursue through that terrain, it would not take a test.

Clarence wrote:

Does a Steam Tank take dangerous terrain when moving through a wood (not charging?)

Read your empire book. Steamtank can not move into woods in the first place

Did that all get errata'd away?

If it did move through Woods it would take a DT test as its a chariot and take D6 wounds.

Where is the spot where it says just for moving into dangerous terrain the chariot would test? I thought it was that way as well but can't find it now, and what I posted above is where I couldn't find anything. I checked pg 117 and it doesn't say this.

Help me out here. I feel like I am going senile!

Hmm, I just reread that and it doesn't say that. It only says you take Dangerous Terrain tests if you march, charge, flee, or persue through the DT.

I guess Chariots are safe as long as they arn't doing that.

Yeah, maybe it is from 7th when if they touched a woods they were dead/stuck for the rest of the game.

Yep in 7th chariots were mostly dead, now as long as they move slowly enough they just about stay alive....

Johnny-Crass wrote:

Read your empire book. Steamtank can not move into woods in the first place

Hey Johnny, can you quote me the part that says it can't enter a wood?

Johnny-Crass wrote:

Read your empire book. Steamtank can not move into woods in the first place

After messaging Johnny-Crass, I've decided Johnny's wrong/misread the Empire Book/rulebook. Steam Tanks can enter woods.

So to come back to the OP's question - what happens to a Stank if it's charges but doesn't break the unit? It's just dead is it? - In which case.... is this actually a good unit to take?

I've obviously never used one - looks a bit ridiculous for my tastes - and I can't really see why people say it's effective

karlosovic wrote:So to come back to the OP's question - what happens to a Stank if it's charges but doesn't break the unit? It's just dead is it? - In which case.... is this actually a good unit to take?

I've obviously never used one - looks a bit ridiculous for my tastes - and I can't really see why people say it's effective

The Tank just sits there like a lump in the enemy's turn, and then on its own turn grinds the crap out of it. Rinse and repeat until something gives.

Not in the new rules it doesnt - it now grinds in the movement phase, and you have to use steam points to fire the steam gun if you want to cause any casualties in close combat.

Finally got my new book tonight. Not a fan of the new Tank.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Finally got my new book tonight. Not a fan of the new Tank.

Try it on the table.
The weakness of the old tank was that once it took some damage, it was tough to do much with it, you risked taking wounds and doing nothing for the turn.
The new steam tank will fight on fairly effectively to the bitter end.

Because the Steam Engine ability goess of at the start of the movement phase, you might clean out smaller units that had locked you in combat, freeing you to fire the cannon in the shooting phase.


Due to how the Boiler mishap table plays out, the tank is a lot better than it looks like on paper.

-Matt

Yeah, it is a lot better bow- previously two wounds could put you out, now 1 wound has no effect at all, 3 ia no worze than 2, etc. Plus you can now do a lot more damage once in cc than preciously, between engine and gun

So, unlike the rest of the book, where things went up in price and got worse (I'm looking at you, State Troops), the TANK got cheaper and better?!

Cheaper, different, and more reliable maybe. Better is a matter of perception. People could think that T6 down from 10 alone makes it horrible.

It is in line with other books' monsters now (witht he exception of the 1+ save). It will die to cannons and bolt throwers now, and anything approaching St5+ will scare it at least, unlike before. It no longer ranks as a "avoid it for ALAP".

The other parts of it are superior (main cannon, steam gun, random movement to be able to charge in any direction, etc). New boiler engine rules are better overall IMO as well.

Much more balanced.

A bolt thrower is going to need like 10+ turns to kill a stank. A cannon probably 3+ shots.

Bolt is definately not a hard counter. Cannon might break even. 10W is still 10W.

DukeRustfield wrote:A bolt thrower is going to need like 10+ turns to kill a stank. A cannon probably 3+ shots.

Bolt is definately not a hard counter. Cannon might break even. 10W is still 10W.

1/6 misfire initially, wasting the shot. 1/6 misfire on bounce, wasting the shot. 1/6 fail to wound.
That's best case. You also have a chance at over-shooting when not misfiring, or under shooting with a very short bounce (like pair of 2's). It's also discounting the effects of mis-firing causing you to lose a turn of shooting or possibly lose the whole machine in explosion.
But let's pretend that as long as you don't roll misfires, you're going to hit the Stank.
5/6th don't fail x 5/6th don't fail, x5/6th don't fail = 55% chance of wounding hit. 3.5 wounds average on a D6.
Expect the need for 10 shots to down it.


Old steam tank was auto-hit and wounded on 6's. So before, 1 in 6 wounded.
T6 means that S5 will hit on 3's (most S5 units) and wound on 5's. Now it's 2 : 9, only a little better. If the opponent is WS3 or worse, or the tank gets a boosted WS (lore of light) than the new tank is as survivable if not more so.
Against S4 or less, the new tank is significantly more surviviable, as 1/3rd to 2/3rds of the attacks now fail to connect and don't even get a chance to wound.

-Matt

I think its definitly more balanced now.

Cannons can kill it much more reliably now and Bolt throwers can at least do something.

Great Weapon armed troops can chop it up.


It sucks now needing to roll to hit but I am happy swapping that for wounding it easier.

HawaiiMatt wrote:1/6 misfire initially, wasting the shot. 1/6 misfire on bounce, wasting the shot. 1/6 fail to wound.

Yeah, I didn't even look at that. I was just pointing out that people saying cannons can kill it is really only in a theoretical sense. It's pretty close to being a Greater Unclean One in terms of difficulty in taking it down. I.e., a 450pt Daemon Lord. I can't see how people are complaining.

DukeRustfield wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:1/6 misfire initially, wasting the shot. 1/6 misfire on bounce, wasting the shot. 1/6 fail to wound.

Yeah, I didn't even look at that. I was just pointing out that people saying cannons can kill it is really only in a theoretical sense. It's pretty close to being a Greater Unclean One in terms of difficulty in taking it down. I.e., a 450pt Daemon Lord. I can't see how people are complaining.

I think a great unclean one is a fair comparison.
Really, that thing is super durable. It's a great cannon, that's almost immune to the majority of ways great cannons die.
What's gutter-runners/chaemeleons going to do? Fast cav? Units of fliers?
Even when it misfires it's own cannon, it's only taking a D3 wounds, rather than death.

I didn't say a single cannon would destroy it one shot. I said that Cannons and Bolt throwers can kill it now.

Going from needing a 4+ with a cannon to a 2+ (3 wounds on average), and <insert whatever to hit> and a 6+ to <insert whatever to hit> and a 4+ (2 wounds average) is a drastic improvement in killing the thing from range. You can soften it up to the point of it not doing much, then swoop in for the kill, unlike before.

Poison in CC affects it now as well, which is nice. I can see some Poison GW Maneaters smiling when they see the thing

Sure it doesn't become useless after it takes a few wounds but now we can reliably wound it at range with warmachines so that we can then finish it off in combat.

Even Str3 with Great Weapons will wound it on 5s allowing a 3+ armor save.


Its something most armies can deal with now, before it was nigh impossable for certain armies. If you didn't have tons of cannons or Purple Sun/Pit you really couldn't do much to it.