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Realm - Fantasy Warfare is a new fantasy miniature war game from serious lemon - a new company based in Melbourne, Australia.

We're looking for support in the form of funding and beta testers on indiegogo:

indiegogo.com/realm-fantasy-warfare

The website of the game can also be found at:

Realm - Fantasy Warfare

where you can read the rules and see what we're about.

Hope this is not breaking the rules by posting our own news so to speak.

Cheers =)

Took a real quick look. Do you have any info on armies or history of your world, I couldn't see anything. I've supported other kickstarters, but would like more information. Are your miniatures going to be metal or plastic and who will be making them?

Theophony wrote:Took a real quick look. Do you have any info on armies or history of your world, I couldn't see anything. I've supported other kickstarters, but would like more information. Are your miniatures going to be metal or plastic and who will be making them?

Hi! Thanks for taking an interest =)

You can use the key:

indiegogo

to unlock the full content.

This is a temporary key to use during the indiegogo campaign. Just submit it in the box at the top of the site. It will unlock the 'Armies of Realm' section so you can read all about the armies/races.

Regarding miniatures, the only thing we are definite about is that they will be metal. We would love to do a 15mm scale (probably more like 18mm) but will be discussing it with the community once we're up and running.

Cheers =)

You might have been better off using Kickstarter as its well established. Many people may not have heard of the site you are using.

However, I still wish you the best of luck. Keep us on on your WIP art, minis, etc.

Mad4Minis wrote:You might have been better off using Kickstarter as its well established. Many people may not have heard of the site you are using.

However, I still wish you the best of luck. Keep us on on your WIP art, minis, etc.

Yeah we wanted to use kickstarter however it requires an Amazon Payments account which in turn requires a US bank account.

indiegogo looks really good and is well established though, and is particularly good for us folks not living in the US

I really love the idea of a new fantasy game.

But i have a few problems with this implementation.

I dont actually recieve anything physical unless i pay 200 dollars. In contrast i had to pay 45 dollars to get a bunch of cool stuff from the early dark kickstarter, and 30 dollars for the Wild West game kickstarter also in this news section, which would be a box of models.

What is with the subscription? What do i recieve with it?

Also you targets seem somewhat high.

Regardless i wish you success, however i will not be participating.

GBL wrote:
I dont actually recieve anything physical unless i pay 200 dollars. In contrast i had to pay 45 dollars to get a bunch of cool stuff from the early dark kickstarter, and 30 dollars for the Wild West game kickstarter also in this news section, which would be a box of models.

What is with the subscription? What do i recieve with it?

Also you targets seem somewhat high.

The subscription unlocks all of the content on the site (including the armies/race information), along with their continual updates. Being that it we are running an online model and we are selling an online subscription, no there aren't any physical goods.

Having said that, I don't think 'pay what you like' is too much for a 1 year subscription...as you're setting your own price.

Thanks for your interest =) Hopefully you'll keep an eye on us anyway =)

realmfw wrote:
Being that it we are running an online model and we are selling an online subscription, no there aren't any physical goods.

Up above though you said you had plans for metal miniatures. Do you have a time frame how soon after the rules are release that the minis will come out?

Andrewgeddon wrote:

realmfw wrote:
Being that it we are running an online model and we are selling an online subscription, no there aren't any physical goods.

Up above though you said you had plans for metal miniatures. Do you have a time frame how soon after the rules are release that the minis will come out?

No, not yet. I should stress, the *plan* is to start a miniature line, however there is nothing concrete yet. For now, we are looking at getting the rules established and building a community.
We have been in touch with sculptors and a local manufactorer but I can't offer any more on that for now.

Sorry for the vague reply =/ We want to, but not yet, I guess is the answer =)

Thanks!

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you really don't seem to be ready for this yet.

Your asking for money, but not really offering anything. Its not difficult to get a few greens produced, and having that would go a long with showing that your serious.

After all, if your not willing to spend your own money... why would I let you spend mine?

Cyporiean wrote:I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you really don't seem to be ready for this yet.

Your asking for money, but not really offering anything. Its not difficult to get a few greens produced, and having that would go a long with showing that your serious.

After all, if your not willing to spend your own money... why would I let you spend mine?

Hi...I understand your point, totally.
It's true, I'm not offering anything physical, only an online subscription, though by the same admission, we are setting no minimum price, so hopefully that balances things out

Also, on the serious note, I hope the work in developing the rules and setting shows our level effort that we have put into this!

I know what you're saying though =)

Cheers!

realmfw wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you really don't seem to be ready for this yet.

Your asking for money, but not really offering anything. Its not difficult to get a few greens produced, and having that would go a long with showing that your serious.

After all, if your not willing to spend your own money... why would I let you spend mine?

Hi...I understand your point, totally.
It's true, I'm not offering anything physical, only an online subscription, though by the same admission, we are setting no minimum price, so hopefully that balances things out

Also, on the serious note, I hope the work in developing the rules and setting shows our level effort that we have put into this!

I know what you're saying though =)

Cheers!

People dont see kickstarter like programs as a way to donate money, but as a long term pre order that also helps an indie get off the ground. So naturally they need to see something in it for themselves.

Let me use examples.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436803.page

Blackwater Gulch was funded in 48 hours.

10 dollars gets you a miniature.

20 dollars gets your 3.

30 gets you a box of 5.

Thats a more than fair price, and the dude has the concept and early greens/mockups right there for you to look at.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/anthroposgames/early-dark-tabletop-role-playing-game

Early Dark the Roleplaying Game

5 dollars your name is in the book.

15 dollars you get a free digital copy

30 dollars gets you the hardcover rulebook

45 Dollars (what i spent) Gets you a t shirt and the Hardcover rulebook.



So if we apply this logic to your kickstarter. 100 dollars is a lifetime subscription. and then another hundred dollars is the hardcover rulebook.

So compared to say early dark you are charging an extra 70 dollars for your rulebook. Which is fine, thats your choice but i hope you understand what we are saying when we say your kickstarter looks like a cash grab that doesnt intend to give anything back to the backers.

A successful kickstarter gives something back.

So what reason do i have to pitch in more than 1 dollar, do a wget and grab all the subscriber info and then never deal with you again?

Hi GBL.

We want to develop this game further but need the support of the community. Hence we are offering online access to the rules and access to a beta period where your feedback can help shape the rules before their final release - for $1. This allows anyone who wants to support Realm to be involved, if they wish.

How you choose to use the key is of course, up to you. There is also nothing preventing someone from sharing their key with all their mates, so they don't have to get one. The point of the subscription is to allow players an opportunity to support the continued development and updates of the rules however they see fit.

Cheers =)

So basically, you are asking people to pay to give you feedback?
Sorry, all this sounds really weird. Good thing that the market for Fantasy tabletops is saturated.

I can assure you, a 'pay what you like' model is not weird!

All the rules are available to view on our site to do as you wish with them.
If you like them, you can pay whatever you like for their use and to support their continual development.
If you don't like them...well, that's it, no further involvement is necessary.

Thanks =)

realmfw wrote:I can assure you, a 'pay what you like' model is not weird!

All the rules are available to view on our site to do as you wish with them.
If you like them, you can pay whatever you like for their use and to support their continual development.
If you don't like them...well, that's it, no further involvement is necessary.

Thanks =)

As a subscriber option on your own website it would not be weird.

It is a weird model when mixed with a kickstarter llike system. Especially as unlike the other kickstarters i showed off previously, all you guys have is some concept art and a really small amount of rules.

And its not like the I-Go U-Go system, or anything else you have done is revolutionary. And there is even less incentive with all the free rulesets available.

Some miniatures, fiction or hardcover books with illustrations would be fantastic, not just the standard fantasy races renamed.

Most people who go to kickstarter have an almost finished product ready to go to the printers, or the casters shop or whatever, and just need the guaranteed sales before they actually press go on their fantastic idea.

You sound like you dont even want to develop the idea any further unless people hand over money ahead of time. Many successful small games companies offer rules for free and simply sell miniatures and accessories, including blackwater gulch (the hugely successful kickstarter) that i mentioned in my last post.

It seems like you heard Notch talking about kickstarter and decided that you could make a quick buck on there. But it doesnt work like that, successful kickstarters give back.

GBL wrote:...really small amount of rules...hardcover books with illustrations...Many successful small games companies offer rules for free and simply sell miniatures and accessories

Hi again =)
This sort of suggests to me that you haven't been over the site to have a good look at all of the content on there. Significant work has gone into both the rules and the background of the races.
To the second point, we never intend to release a printed copy of the rules. The website is the endpoint, where all the content lies. We decided against any sort of digital download (as a pdf for example) as it makes a lot more sense for us to present it on a live web page instead.
Lastly, the rules are a serious focus for us, not as a means to promote miniature sales. (Not suggesting any examples you have given are, but certainly such rules are out there).

Thanks =)

realmfw wrote:

GBL wrote:...really small amount of rules...hardcover books with illustrations...Many successful small games companies offer rules for free and simply sell miniatures and accessories

Hi again =)
This sort of suggests to me that you haven't been over the site to have a good look at all of the content on there. Significant work has gone into both the rules and the background of the races.

Yeah i dont get that feeling at all from your website.

TheWebsite wrote:
Drogar are generally short, squat and powerfully built. The prejudiced among other races often say that all Drogar are bearded, including the women, but in actual fact this is not the case.

How many man hours went in to this?

realmfw wrote:
To the second point, we never intend to release a printed copy of the rules.

So you never intend to live up to your 200 dollar "knight" level obligations?

realmfw wrote:
The website is the endpoint, where all the content lies. We decided against any sort of digital download (as a pdf for example) as it makes a lot more sense for us to present it on a live web page instead.
Lastly, the rules are a serious focus for us, not as a means to promote miniature sales. (Not suggesting any examples you have given are, but certainly such rules are out there).

Thanks =)

Then why use a kickstarter model at all? Are you simply abusing the system for free promotion? Or are you abusing it as a charity? It is not intended as either

Hi GBL!
Obviously, I'm not going to get involved in any flame wars and it seems I don't have the right answers for you, so I will leave it at that =)

I'm sorry we didn't capture your interest =)

Thanks =)

realmfw wrote:Hi GBL.

We want to develop this game further but need the support of the community. Hence we are offering online access to the rules and access to a beta period where your feedback can help shape the rules before their final release - for $1. This allows anyone who wants to support Realm to be involved, if they wish.

How you choose to use the key is of course, up to you. There is also nothing preventing someone from sharing their key with all their mates, so they don't have to get one. The point of the subscription is to allow players an opportunity to support the continued development and updates of the rules however they see fit.

Cheers =)

So has anyone got a key then .... the this sounds very fishy..!
You give away the basic rules for free ( that are basic copy and pasted fantasy rules ) then ask for donations to see some backstory to the rules that from what I've seen are again generic fantasy stereo types. And you've already said you don't intend to produce a hard copy of any of this even though you have asked for people to pay for that ? So within a few posts you have already admited to missleading your customers !
People don't be surprised if theses guys disappear in a few mths with your money leaving you with no product and half usable rules

caveat emptor!

I think you should work on editing your rules and background. There are some grammatical errors that are pretty bad and your prose are very clunky an amateurish. If you know someone that has an english degree or a literature degree of some kind you should have them look it over and tear it up for you.

Your rules seem like a mash up of Mordheim and Warhammer Fantasy Battle which feels like it would be awkward to play with a lot of models. Perhaps you should go with just a skirmish game if you are going to use all of those modifiers. I think this might get bogged down in calculating all the modifiers during large combats.

Lastly some of your names for stuff seems rather juvenile. For instance "massive infantry". If you are trying to reach a wide market audience you need to make sure your work has a professional feel to it. You really need to work on that. Again working with someone who has some kind of writing degree or is working on one will go a long way towards helping you out.

Anyway hope some constructive criticism helps. I would also suggest you not charge a subscription rate. You should use an online publishing site and actually make a book so people have something they can hold in their hands.

I have a small suggestion for your rules, based on my experience in medieval combat recreation (granted, not with real weapons, but the armor is real enough).

Every medieval or fantasy game I've ever seen has the same issue. Combat is initiated by a charge, and ONLY by a charge. Charges must always be made in a forward direction. This leads to units parked literally within arms reach to one side or the other being effectively untouchable in the game. This results in very small, weak, but highly maneuverable units hampering the maneuver of a strong unit, because the large unit can never charge them, and cannot approach them without charging them.

On the other hand, in 'real' battles, it's actually quite common for a unit to take those two steps to the left (or right) and engage someone on their flanks... or just sweep them away with your flank as you wheel to maneuver against the enemy line.

I would suggest an 'advance into combat' rule, where a unit could move, say, half their Move value (which in your game would be equal to their Agility characteristic, if I'm understanding your rules right) to initiate combat with a unit on their flanks. This would prevent a small unit of, say, halflings pinning a unit of giants against a building/wall/whatever and forcing them to move straight forward... because the giants can't just reach over and squish the little buggers.

i agree with all the comments so far, you need to spend more time on the project before you ask for our money.
If you arnt confident in investing in your own ideas and concept, that pretty much tells us, our money are just donation...
a badly planned out donation.

In agreeance with the others. About 3/4 of your rules seem to be copy and pasted from WFB. The only difference I saw that really stood out was the decision to charge or take an extra strike.

I appreciate your attempt to colour the names of your spell books, and a lot of your spells are interesting and I would like to convince some friends to try them in a WFB game.

When it comes to money though.. the point of a kickstarter is to help someone fund a project all the way through to it's end level. You have stated you already are at end level. What reason is there to ask for money? I get that it's a pay what you wish.. and if I like reading your rules enough I could give you a buck and call it good.. but I think trying to solicit a mass donation is likely going to fail.

o.O


Where are the miniatures?

read the thread Grot. It's been put out that there is no intent for miniature.

The whole kickstarter is aimed at recieving money for the work thats been done, and will not progress any further.

Theres a code in the thread by the OP that gets you access to all the rules and the races information.

Looks like you'll reach your kickstarter goal with ease.

$2k before you begin to ink the artwork for the units is a bit rough, though.

I mean, that's the kind of thing I'd personally be able to do in a weekend, coming up with some quick sketches is not hard.

scarletsquig wrote:Looks like you'll reach your kickstarter goal with ease.

Really? I am a tad skeptical of the 2 anonymous angel investors who paid 200 and 1000 dollars.

If they are real investors good on them, but both of them seem to have paid large amounts of money for nothing in return, when the combined amount of other backers has been 3 dollars.

scarletsquig wrote:
$2k before you begin to ink the artwork for the units is a bit rough, though.

I mean, that's the kind of thing I'd personally be able to do in a weekend, coming up with some quick sketches is not hard.

Agreed.

GBL wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:Looks like you'll reach your kickstarter goal with ease.

Really? I am a tad skeptical of the 2 anonymous angel investors who paid 200 and 1000 dollars.

Same here... now I think...... I wont say it >.>

Not to kick you while you're down old boy, but I think you need to do something spectacular with the rules to really stand out. I appreciate the background and all the work that's gone into it, but really, it doesn't mean much if you can't sell the game.

I've always been a little turned off by the 'I go, you go' system. If you could come up with something unique (maybe give little order tokens in an order phase, then flip them over at the same time, and act it all out SIMULTANEOUSLY) then I'd be very interested.