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I have been wondering what is the best Tac Squad loadout. I am using a 5 man team with the Sergent having a power fist and a combi melti. The whole squad is then loaded into a Razorback and off to war they go.
The unit costs about 165. You can't get the other heavy weapons because you only have 5 men but you get the Razorbacks firepower. (It can move and fire)

What do you guys think?

I mean if they have to go in a Razorback there really is none. But at the 10 man level, a flamer and MM for free is amazing. And the power fist is by far the best thing you can put on the sarge


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically any melta you can get for free is amazing. 8+2d6 is the best thing in the game for shredding armor

Maybe split the squad between 2 Razorbacks?

Probably 10 man, with melta gun and missile launcher. Razorback with ascannon and twin linked plasmagun.

Combat squad, put the missile launcher and sergeant + 3 guys in cover someplace.

Put the meltagun + 4 guys in the razorback.

I wouldn't waste points on fists. Keep the sergeant with the guys outside the transport to help with pinning or fall back checks. Keep the meltagun safe in the razorback until you have a nice juicy target for it. Then move 12, disembark, shoot.

Otherwise just sit everyone back and shoot.

It depends on what the rest of your army list is.

Power Fists are probably the best thing a sergeant can have; a unique Strength 8 CC weapon that can waste Armor and Infantry. It's main weakness is its speed, so splitting up your sergeant into a 5 man squad is playing against the odds he'll survive combat against a full assault unit. If you're going 5 man, giving him a power weapon gives him a better bite in such a small squad.

As for Heavy Weapons, it really depends. I prefer a Heavy Bolter when lacking good assault units, Missiles for Armor and Transports. Let the Devestators keep the LasCannons.

Assault weapons are really a tie, despite the fawning over the melta. It depends on what you want your Tac Squad to do.

Best tactical squads are called grey hunters with 2 meltaguns

Exergy wrote:Best tactical squads are called grey hunters with 2 meltaguns

That is hilarious...

Anyways, a full 10-man tac squad is best. You get a free special and a free heavy. I know the heavy part isn't really valued this edition, but it can provide a nice chunk of firepower that your opponent can't really afford to prioritize. Provided you combat squad them of course.

I personally go for a melta and plasma cannon (it's the cheapest way to get a plasma cannon and I got plenty of anti-tank)

mp40guy wrote:I have been wondering what is the best Tac Squad loadout. I am using a 5 man team with the Sergent having a power fist and a combi melti. The whole squad is then loaded into a Razorback and off to war they go.
The unit costs about 165. You can't get the other heavy weapons because you only have 5 men but you get the Razorbacks firepower. (It can move and fire)

What do you guys think?

It is a waste of time to purchase a tactical squad at the 5 man level. Honestly I'd try something like this (based off what you are using):

Tactical Squad:
1x Sgt: Power Fist/Power Weapon, Combi-Melta/Flamer if you want
9x Marines
-Meltagun/Flamer
-Lascannon/Missile Launcher/Multimelta

Razorback
-Extra Armor
-TL Plasmagun / Lascannon

Combat squad the tacticals and set the 4 basic marines + 1 heavy weapon fellow in a sniping position/objective and put your sgt, 3 normal marines, the special weapon fellow in the Razorback and cruise off.

I agree with the advice that's suggested a 10 man squad. Also, I would argue that Heavy Bolters are crappy weapons, and suggest that whatever you do, upgrade that gun to something that can actually hurt something. I will make a small exception if you happen to face a lot of Dark Eldar or Ork lists with lots of Trukks.

Just to make the Vanilla players cry a bit, note that a Blood Angels army can take an Assault Squad with a Meltagun in a Razorback with a real gun (like Las/Plas) for 165. Oh, and it's Fast, so it can move 6" and fire everything.

MrEconomics wrote:I agree with the advice that's suggested a 10 man squad. Also, I would argue that Heavy Bolters are crappy weapons, and suggest that whatever you do, upgrade that gun to something that can actually hurt something. I will make a small exception if you happen to face a lot of Dark Eldar or Ork lists with lots of Trukks.

Just to make the Vanilla players cry a bit, note that a Blood Angels army can take an Assault Squad with a Meltagun in a Razorback with a real gun (like Las/Plas) for 165. Oh, and it's Fast, so it can move 6" and fire everything.

I would add that the MM sucks on tac squads, IMO of course. A multi-melta is great but it's on a non-relentless model and is a heavy weapon. And is short ranged. I'd rather take the heavy bolter...

And as for the assault marines with fast razorback, it has to be said that the ASM only has 5 guys.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the heavy bolter also a heavy weapon...
Although, if you would take it because of the longer range it does make more sense, why be stuck sitting still with a heavy weapon unless it can actually shoot things outside of 12"

The biggest problem I have seen with the heavy weapons is that you have to sit still so long to use them. The moblity of the razorback with still being able to shoot is better than any heavy weapons. I am right now buying multi melti guns and am going to make lascannon melti turret for my guys. Or just a small turret with the melti and a big turret with assault cannons. That gives you your fire power that can move and shoot. That is the biggest problem with a heavy weapon with a Tac Squad. Small squad but big firepower

MrEconomics wrote:I agree with the advice that's suggested a 10 man squad. Also, I would argue that Heavy Bolters are crappy weapons, and suggest that whatever you do, upgrade that gun to something that can actually hurt something. I will make a small exception if you happen to face a lot of Dark Eldar or Ork lists with lots of Trukks.

Just to make the Vanilla players cry a bit, note that a Blood Angels army can take an Assault Squad with a Meltagun in a Razorback with a real gun (like Las/Plas) for 165. Oh, and it's Fast, so it can move 6" and fire everything.

Unless you've added SBs or HK missiles, surely, technically, it can move 12" and fire everything, as a RB only has one weapon system?

mp40guy wrote:The biggest problem I have seen with the heavy weapons is that you have to sit still so long to use them. The moblity of the razorback with still being able to shoot is better than any heavy weapons. I am right now buying multi melti guns and am going to make lascannon melti turret for my guys. Or just a small turret with the melti and a big turret with assault cannons. That gives you your fire power that can move and shoot. That is the biggest problem with a heavy weapon with a Tac Squad. Small squad but big firepower

That is why you combat squad and leave the heavy weapon in cover and put the assault weapon in the razorback. Multi-meltas on foot troops are worse than the meltagun in some cases. A meltagun in a vehicle has a mobile 20" threat range for the extra penetration. A multimelta on foot only has a static 12" threat range for the extra penetration.

mp40guy wrote:I have been wondering what is the best Tac Squad loadout. I am using a 5 man team with the Sergent having a power fist and a combi melti. The whole squad is then loaded into a Razorback and off to war they go.
The unit costs about 165. You can't get the other heavy weapons because you only have 5 men but you get the Razorbacks firepower. (It can move and fire)

What do you guys think?:

This post is under the assumption that you want to increase the quality of your game and become a better player. If your looking for just fluff play with a few friends, play whatever you want -- it won't get in the way of having fun.
Now, onto the post!

Why are you playing the vanilla marine codex? I mean that as a serious question. There are only 3 viable builds under the vanilla marine codex. Shrike, Vulcan, and Bikes. There is no practical reason to run that codex for any other purpose. The SW, BA, and GK do everything better. BA and BT can do a few things better, if you want to go with specific build armies.

It does not matter if your models are painted blue, red, or green. You can pick up whatever codex you want and play 'counts-as', so long as your models are modeled appropriatly. The only ones that will be a problem are the GK, as they have storm bolters and power weapons. For the BA or SW, its an easy conversion. Given that, we will talk about those two codex's.

Wolves
Now, lets start talking about TAC squads. As was mentioned by Exergy, SW make the best TAC squad in grey hunters. They have 2 CCWs, making them as rough in CC as assault marines, and they have two special weapon options. They also get counter-attack and acute senses. Because someone at GW was having a brain fart, their also cheaper than C:SM marines.

Most people field two melta guns and a Las-Plas razorback. You can attach a seargent to the squad if so desired, or leave them bare. Both options work well. This format gives dual melta guns up close to destroy vehicles, and a nasty gun on the razorback. The effective range with the melta guns is considerable, as you could move the razorback 12", deploy 2" from the side and shoot another 12". Remember, at 12" a MG is more effective than a LC on AV 12 or less due to the AP1.

A few years ago this list was considered the best (called Razorback spam), and was often seen at tournaments. When GK came out, this build took a hit due to rifleman psydreads, which shred AV 11 like paper. With the rise of necrons and more people playing them you will get more mileage from a razorspam build than before -- but expect to have some bad matchups at times.

Blood Angles
BA can also do a razorspam list. They get fewer melta guns and no bolters, but get their razorback cheaper (assuming your going with assault squads). As such, you can field a similar razorback spam list.

Another option for BA is to spam land raiders. You get the raiders as dedicated transports, which makes them cheaper than other armies have to pay. You keep the assault squad inside to make it work as a scoring unit. This is very effective vs some armies which don't have the capacity to deal with multiple land raiders. Combined with 2 storm ravens, it can be a real pain to deal with.
However, there will be some armies out there, like hyrdra guard with melta vets, that will table it. This is why you often see LR spam armies doing well, but rarely winning tournaments.

Vanilla
So if you really have your heart set on vanilla, remember that TAC squads are arguably the worst unit in the codex. One way you can get around this is to field bikes as troops -- which is what I do with my C:SM army. I use squads of 6 bikes with 2 special weapons, MM bike, and a PF. Its a durable squad that can bring a surprisingly large amount of shooting to the game.

Another option is to use scouts. A scout unit in a reservered land speeder storm is good for late turn objective grabbing.

If your going to take TAC squads, you want to bring a few of them, but don't load up. Bring one of them at 10 man so you can hold a back field objective with a heavy weapon and still get your razorback, and then get the others as aggressive objective holders. Don't load up on them though, as they are the one of the worst units you have. You want to bring TH/SS termies, sternguard, dreads, etc...

Have you guys seen strike squads and purifiers?

Tac, combimelta, melta, ml\las, rhino for 220\230 points.

\thread

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Rhino - meltagun & missile launcher - sgt w/ combi melta

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Razorback - flamer & missile launcher - sgt w/ combi flamer - Razorback w/ twin-linked assault cannon

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Drop Pod - meltagun & multi melta - sgt w/ combi melta

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Drop Pod - flamer & multi melta - sgt w/ combi flamer

I think those are probably the best setups. Plasma gun and cannon aren't much use these days thanks to cover plus gets hot, not forgetting the expense of the plasma cannon. Lascannon is just waaaay too expensive.

labmouse42 wrote:

mp40guy wrote:I have been wondering what is the best Tac Squad loadout. I am using a 5 man team with the Sergent having a power fist and a combi melti. The whole squad is then loaded into a Razorback and off to war they go.
The unit costs about 165. You can't get the other heavy weapons because you only have 5 men but you get the Razorbacks firepower. (It can move and fire)

What do you guys think?:

This post is under the assumption that you want to increase the quality of your game and become a better player. If your looking for just fluff play with a few friends, play whatever you want -- it won't get in the way of having fun.
Now, onto the post!

Why are you playing the vanilla marine codex? I mean that as a serious question. There are only 3 viable builds under the vanilla marine codex. Shrike, Vulcan, and Bikes. There is no practical reason to run that codex for any other purpose. The SW, BA, and GK do everything better. BA and BT can do a few things better, if you want to go with specific build armies.

It does not matter if your models are painted blue, red, or green. You can pick up whatever codex you want and play 'counts-as', so long as your models are modeled appropriatly. The only ones that will be a problem are the GK, as they have storm bolters and power weapons. For the BA or SW, its an easy conversion. Given that, we will talk about those two codex's.

Wolves
Now, lets start talking about TAC squads. As was mentioned by Exergy, SW make the best TAC squad in grey hunters. They have 2 CCWs, making them as rough in CC as assault marines, and they have two special weapon options. They also get counter-attack and acute senses. Because someone at GW was having a brain fart, their also cheaper than C:SM marines.

Most people field two melta guns and a Las-Plas razorback. You can attach a seargent to the squad if so desired, or leave them bare. Both options work well. This format gives dual melta guns up close to destroy vehicles, and a nasty gun on the razorback. The effective range with the melta guns is considerable, as you could move the razorback 12", deploy 2" from the side and shoot another 12". Remember, at 12" a MG is more effective than a LC on AV 12 or less due to the AP1.

A few years ago this list was considered the best (called Razorback spam), and was often seen at tournaments. When GK came out, this build took a hit due to rifleman psydreads, which shred AV 11 like paper. With the rise of necrons and more people playing them you will get more mileage from a razorspam build than before -- but expect to have some bad matchups at times.

Blood Angles
BA can also do a razorspam list. They get fewer melta guns and no bolters, but get their razorback cheaper (assuming your going with assault squads). As such, you can field a similar razorback spam list.

Another option for BA is to spam land raiders. You get the raiders as dedicated transports, which makes them cheaper than other armies have to pay. You keep the assault squad inside to make it work as a scoring unit. This is very effective vs some armies which don't have the capacity to deal with multiple land raiders. Combined with 2 storm ravens, it can be a real pain to deal with.
However, there will be some armies out there, like hyrdra guard with melta vets, that will table it. This is why you often see LR spam armies doing well, but rarely winning tournaments.

Vanilla
So if you really have your heart set on vanilla, remember that TAC squads are arguably the worst unit in the codex. One way you can get around this is to field bikes as troops -- which is what I do with my C:SM army. I use squads of 6 bikes with 2 special weapons, MM bike, and a PF. Its a durable squad that can bring a surprisingly large amount of shooting to the game.

Another option is to use scouts. A scout unit in a reservered land speeder storm is good for late turn objective grabbing.

If your going to take TAC squads, you want to bring a few of them, but don't load up. Bring one of them at 10 man so you can hold a back field objective with a heavy weapon and still get your razorback, and then get the others as aggressive objective holders. Don't load up on them though, as they are the one of the worst units you have. You want to bring TH/SS termies, sternguard, dreads, etc...

But I have to point out DA, and don't tell me they're dead!

Deathwing
Basically an army of Terminators. Take Master Belial and you can also take Deathwing Terminators (Which are Fearless, and have their own special version of Drop Pod assault) as Troops along with Elites. Belial isn't really spectacular (He's one of the few captain type guys who doesn't have an invulnerable of 4) Deathwing Terminators can diversify weapons, so you can get a heavy flamer in a squad with Thunder Hammers (Which are free, btw). If you want to be fluffy, you also take Venerable Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders.

Another main option would be

Ravenwing
Pretty much the same as the Biker Army, except you are fearless, have scout and have to take a character who rides a cool Jetbike (It's got a Plasma Cannon on it!) or an AV 14 (Front and Side) land speeder with Twin Linked Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter

The last and, in my opinion, best build would be

Deathraven
A combo of the two above. The bikers stop terminators from scattering if they deep strike within 6", so scout ahead with your bikers, drop on Terminators next to bikers and unleash carnage. Land Speeders zoom around shooting at vulnerable targets, whilst Land Raiders and Venerable Dreadnoughts provide support from the front.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
But I have to point out DA, and don't tell me they're dead!

Deathwing
Basically an army of Terminators. Take Master Belial and you can also take Deathwing Terminators (Which are Fearless, and have their own special version of Drop Pod assault) as Troops along with Elites. Belial isn't really spectacular (He's one of the few captain type guys who doesn't have an invulnerable of 4) Deathwing Terminators can diversify weapons, so you can get a heavy flamer in a squad with Thunder Hammers (Which are free, btw). If you want to be fluffy, you also take Venerable Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders.

I find deathwing to be an good army for all the reasons you mentioend. Thanks for bringing that up. Its not TAC squads (in a similar way that C:SM bikes or scouts are not).

Ravenwing armies fall behind C:SM for a number of reasons, and if you want to run bikes I suggest the C:SM. That is an entirely different thread and I don't want to spam this thread with that discussion.

If you are willing to move away from the TAC squad, there are a number of other options that open up for you as well, such as purifier spam, draigowing, etc...

For DA actually a lasback with 5 men and meltagun is only slightly over priced. It is probably the best Tactical squad set up they have.

azreal13 wrote:

MrEconomics wrote:I agree with the advice that's suggested a 10 man squad. Also, I would argue that Heavy Bolters are crappy weapons, and suggest that whatever you do, upgrade that gun to something that can actually hurt something. I will make a small exception if you happen to face a lot of Dark Eldar or Ork lists with lots of Trukks.

Just to make the Vanilla players cry a bit, note that a Blood Angels army can take an Assault Squad with a Meltagun in a Razorback with a real gun (like Las/Plas) for 165. Oh, and it's Fast, so it can move 6" and fire everything.

Unless you've added SBs or HK missiles, surely, technically, it can move 12" and fire everything, as a RB only has one weapon system?

TL Plasmagun / Lascannon, two weapons.

Also, still wouldn't underestimate the efficiency of combat squading with a razorback. Still get all the pew pew, plus another capturing unit/sniping unit (although it is another kill point). I tried it the other night and although it was only one heavy weapon firing I still had 4 other marines to knock off before the heavy weapon was down and it was another anti-armor shot every turn from that unit on top of the Sgt with a combi, the meltagun, and the razorback's weapon systems in the other unit.

What is the main body of the tac squad consist of? Boltermarines.

So you need something that supports the main body to get something out of that unit. A Flamer and a quite flexible ML is my way to go. Sergeant gets a Fist of course to scare away some ICs in close combat.
Thats in a Rhino.

Then I can decide to stick together in order to get full AP-Power or to split apart for some AT-support and less AP-Power.

I tend to take a lascannon or plasma gun, give the Sergeant a power weapon or power fist, split the units into combat squads, and have the sergeant's team intercept anyone going for the heavy weapon. It seems to work, probably because I don't play against people with lots of Deep Striking stuff.

I'd just note that no other troops choice in the game has access to multimeltas, and multimeltas (and their analogues) in general are actually pretty rare outside of the vanilla marine codex. Having never really used multimeltas (as I've not spent any time playing marines, and thus haven't had access to many of them), I can't say if multimelta spam (of sorts) is viable, but I do think it's interesting that only marines can do it.

Ailaros wrote:I'd just note that no other troops choice in the game has access to multimeltas, and multimeltas (and their analogues) in general are actually pretty rare outside of the vanilla marine codex. Having never really used multimeltas (as I've not spent any time playing marines, and thus haven't had access to many of them), I can't say if multimelta spam (of sorts) is viable, but I do think it's interesting that only marines can do it.

They are really good. but just not on infantry

Yes I think combat squading 1 tac squad between 2 Razorbacks is the way to go. One will have twin lazcannons and the support team, 5 marines one with a multi melti and the other will have twin assault cannons plus the Sergent plasma gun and the 3 other marines.

Thanks guys

mercer wrote:I think those are probably the best setups. Plasma gun and cannon aren't much use these days thanks to cover plus gets hot, not forgetting the expense of the plasma cannon. Lascannon is just waaaay too expensive.

Not going to argue about the plasma gun, it's hard to make it cost-effective (Command Squad with 4 PG is scary as hell for your MEQ opponent though... and Gets Hot! is less of a concern since you effectively have a 2+ save).

Though I found that plasma cannons are actually pretty alright in a Tac Squad. Or at least the way I was playing them. When I played vanilla marines, I bought the plasma cannon (it's literally 5pts, which is the cheapest one in the entire book) for efficient (cept when it gets hot... which doesn't happen often, or at least shouldn't) anti termie/MEQ work.

I admit that cover is a problem, but the 5pts to me is worth it to make marines cry the one time they're out of cover.

mp40guy wrote:Yes I think combat squading 1 tac squad between 2 Razorbacks is the way to go. One will have twin lazcannons and the support team, 5 marines one with a multi melti and the other will have twin assault cannons plus the Sergent plasma gun and the 3 other marines.

Thanks guys

Not that this is impossible, but you know that you can't buy two transports for one unit right?

You could buy a RB for another unit, deploy it empty and then move on combat squad into it on turn 1, but you cannot buy two for one Tac squad.

Ailaros wrote:I'd just note that no other troops choice in the game has access to multimeltas, and multimeltas (and their analogues) in general are actually pretty rare outside of the vanilla marine codex. Having never really used multimeltas (as I've not spent any time playing marines, and thus haven't had access to many of them), I can't say if multimelta spam (of sorts) is viable, but I do think it's interesting that only marines can do it.

They aren't as good as meltaguns on infantry. Not being relentless like all vehicles limits their range and makes them very easy to avoid. With a meltagun you can jump out of a rhino or drop pod and fire away. Multimelta has to be stationary. Multimeltas are usually found on speeders or dreads.