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I always wanted to post about this, so I figure my first post past 300 for me should be about the fine line we kinda sorta walk in friendly games.

I'll start with an example. I have mean space wolves lists with 3 long fang squads w/ 4 missiles each and all three squads have a las/plas razorback, and the rest of the army is generally heavily mechanized with meltahunter squads. But I don't play those lists in friendly play because idk if I'm playing a fluffbunny, a newbie, or a tournament player.

Why? I don't want to make people angry. Most people don't like playing against spammy lists, I don't mind, but I know most people do.

So I tone my lists down and put in my cool looking wolf guard terminators with wolf claws and other guys with cool looking poses.

But, if I do that, I leave myself to getting stomped by the guy who is playing for the win, using the tourney list, the guy who doesn't care, or doesn't realize a lot of people get angrypants over that style of listbuilding.

My question is, do you walk the fine line of trying to make a list that isn't overkill against "for fun" players but doesn't roll over to "for the win" players? Do you even think about this weird social contract? Do you think it even exists?

First rule of any social interaction: if you think someone's going to have a problem with somethng, you're probably right.

I always approached gaming lightly and played units I liked and against 2 out of 3 people it was always fine.

I actually don't mind playing WAAC players in a perfect world where they're O.K. with losing but in my experience, they hate to lose and throw their toys out of the pram.

I suppose if I know I'll get to play someone that beat me again, I enjoy the challenge the next battle promises. I'm that type of gamer, it's more interesting to me if a history develops, that's why I'd keep coming back to play effing Dark Elves with my army of Vampire Counts (before the new book)

Maybe you could have both lists ready, and ask your opponent what list they're fielding before the game. Should be a good indicator of what kind of playstyle they favour. Oh, and good show for being so considerate of others, that's awfully civil of you.

When offering a game (or accepting one) say "I've got my hard list and my soft list - which one would you like to play?"
I find this alleviates any bad feelings. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the guy that has a tournament list that wants to play your soft list for an easy win, but you'd get that sometimes anyway.

ivangterrace wrote:I don't want to make people angry.

People will always find a reason to get angry. Such is life.

Just run what you want to run, but "forget" to do things with units. Also, methinks people complaining about lists in any form are in the minority. I've never once encountered someone that wouldn't play me because of the army I ran.

rigeld2 wrote:When offering a game (or accepting one) say "I've got my hard list and my soft list - which one would you like to play?"
I find this alleviates any bad feelings. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the guy that has a tournament list that wants to play your soft list for an easy win, but you'd get that sometimes anyway.

You'll also get the people insulted by being offered a "hard mode" and a "easy mode"

I definitely agree with offering a choice of two lists.

Just ask them whether they want to play a fluffy game or if they want a tourney game.

Some folks will take offense at anything, but I think you're far more likely to have folks annoyed with you for showing up with a WAAC force than you are by giving them a choice.

Also, from your end it's a much better game challenge to get the most from a fluffy list than to try and dumb down or "forget" the abilities of your WAAC list.

I avoid the whole topic by socializing with a potential opponent before we start a game. Knowing what he is up to in advance and having enough stuff with me to be able to use several lists is the way for me.

I have only little time for gaming so I have to be picky. I don't want to end up playing against a douchebag and I do not enjoy one sided battles (either way).
I simply adapt to the situation and therefore had no "bad" games yet where one of us leaves with hard feelings.

Wow, what timing for this post.

I went to my FLGS yesterday looking for a game. Wound up playing a guy who was playing his 3rd game ever.

I took a very soft 1850 eldar list so he could get more experience with his necrons (they were by no means optimized).

I wound up teaching most of the game, showing him how to move and think about what to shoot and how to prioritize targets ect. was a great time.

If I had used my tournament list it wouldn't have been fun for anyone (I don't bask in the glow of stomping n00bs into the ground)

darefsky wrote:I wound up teaching most of the game, showing him how to move and think about what to shoot and how to prioritize targets ect. was a great time.

You, sir, are a gentleman. You exemplify what the hobby needs more of.

Most of the time I'm playing, I play against my friend's wolves. We end up playing fluffy lists more often than not simply because they are more fun (Especially when I field my orks). This game is entirely what you make of it. We're both DnD'ers (2nd ed), so we end up narrating our battles as well. It keeps things entertaining where it would otherwise get stale.

It doesn't matter what list I bring, how optimized it is, or how good my opponent's list is.

It doesn't matter because I always ensure I'm a friendly, sociable human being is fun to game with.

That should be your primary focus, not the list. I could bring the softest list possible and my opponent would still have a terrible time if I'm a horrible person.

That's the way I see it anyways. Play the list you want to play, and be a good, decent player. The good times will surely follow.

Blacksails wrote:Play the list you want to play, and be a good, decent player. The good times will surely follow.

This.

I could be roflstomped by the hardest netlist someone can find and I couldn't care less as long as the game was fun and my opponent was an enjoyable person.

Remember folks: The objective is to win, the point is to have fun. Don't get them confused.

Depends on what a 'friendly' game is...

I personally see the games at the club I play at as 'friendly' because they aren't at a tournament, not many/often any really competitive lists unless previously arranged games. But there is still a certain competitiveness, there are a mix of fairly decent lists (some come almost as standard with some codex's.) and fluffy lists. I don't really think that line exists as long as your a decent person and are playing with decent people. As soon as you start adding people who aren't going to be friendly, 'laid back', generally nice, or people who get stroppy or upset easily. Thats when problems can occur.

I'm sure you could have a really fun game, if one person was using a decent tournament standard list, and one person was using a fluffy Eldar list. You can both be going all out for the win, but what happens in the game and how you interact with each other is going to determine the fun level, not wether your both using 'not competitive' lists and not going all out for the win. I've had plenty of games when i've been absolutely thrashed, barley even killed anything but still enjoyed the game.

If your playing with people, who when they lose start complaining you have a cheesy list, basically your playing with the wrong people.

I think its pretty simple, just ask. When your setting up a game ask what kind of list they are going to play. Let them know up front what options you have so it can be agreed upon.

Sure, now and then you will get a TFG who says he wants a friendly game, then drops a spam list on you...and proceeds to say that IS his friendly list. However I think overall people would prefer to be on the same page before starting.


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darefsky wrote:I don't bask in the glow of stomping n00bs into the ground

Too many people doing that are exactly the reason I dont play online/multiplayer videogames. Too many asshats out hunting for the easy kills.

I think that this is GW's biggest flaw. They produce a game that is very poorly suited to competitive play, but is so unbalanced that casual play requires preparation.

I usually bring trashy lists. This can annoy competitive gamers. However, they really should be playing a different game.

Basically, for a fun game...if it's not fun for both parties then why bother?

Just find out what kind of game your opponent is looking for and pull out the appropriate list.

...unless you're testing something.

Ultra Grey wrote:

darefsky wrote:I wound up teaching most of the game, showing him how to move and think about what to shoot and how to prioritize targets ect. was a great time.

You, sir, are a gentleman. You exemplify what the hobby needs more of.

Not sure about all that, I just figure he was new, and it would only discourage him if I tabled him. Besides if you take the time to teach new players it helps with getting great hard fought games later down the road.

Yeah, I have to agree with the OP on this one.

At last year's Game's Day I remember my friend and I both brought fluffy lists and we looked for games to play against people. I found an Ultramarines player who had the same idea in mind. It was a blast and I won by only a single KP. We both agreed that it was a really fun game and we parted, satisfied at the awesome game we just had. Than I turned around and my friend had just lost to two 10 year old's and I had a good laugh. So my friend and I went back to them and we had a rematch, little did I know that these kids we loaded and armed to the teeth. They had perfectly constructed spammy armies straight from Adpeticon and they exploited several rules and overall were clearly WAAC players. Their armies were a ramshackle assortment of unpainted and oop minis with many different types of paint jobs (most had none). So, in only a few turns My IG and friends Tau were pretty much destroyed by the combined BA and IG force. It wasn't even remotely fun and to this day I think that people should save the cheesy lists for tournaments where they belong.

This is why I stopped playing in open games at LGS's.For me, unless I am playing against some one and the toughest list they can provide, I see it as a waste of my time. I know how that sounds, but unless I am playing against the toughest lists, I am not doing my best to stay sharp.

I don't know about this as a whole concept. I kind of have no sympathy for people who can't enjoy a game of 40k if their opponet brings a really good army list. What stops people from enjoying games is how their opponet acts, not what army they bring. I have gotten tabled and had a blast, and have tabled opponets and had a terrible time. What makes the difference? was my oponent argumentative? was he shady (stealing extra movement, misrepresenting rules ect)? could he appriciate unusual/funny results?

On a related note, I do find my self thinking much more about how much to enforce the rules in "friendly games" , generaly I let most things slide, but it takes a lot of will power not to complain about movement that is clearly too much, people wanting to go back in phases when they forgot to move or shoot, people who reserve something and then want to outflank/deepstrike. Again it is a friendly game but these things have a pretty big impact on the game and they are not things I do myself.

I used to wonder if I should field a friendly list or a competitive list, but in the last 6 months, all I've played against are people who are quite open about how they're using me for tourney practice, so now I don't bother taking friendly lists anymore. (Two land raiders in a 1,250 list? Really?) That is part of why I started collecting Dark Eldar, because you have to field a pretty aggressive list with them to have any chance at winning.

meh, Iwould say just play how you want to play. if it offends then they are just too immature to realise its only a game

It depends on your club's concept of friendly.

For example...my local scene doesn't have a concept of friendly or fluff matches. Not that they aren't friendly players, there just ins't a difference in their mind between playing to win and playing for the experience, they're one and the same. That's why I stopped using my themed Death Guard list, without oblit spam I just couldn't handle the mech.

It's all about who you are playing and the expectations of the game. If I am trying out a tournament list than I want to play hard as nails list, if a new player wants a game I am gonna take a softer list as not to discourage them.

I love a hard fought tough as nails game sometimes, just as I love teaching the game to folks that are new or just not that good.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:When offering a game (or accepting one) say "I've got my hard list and my soft list - which one would you like to play?"
I find this alleviates any bad feelings. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the guy that has a tournament list that wants to play your soft list for an easy win, but you'd get that sometimes anyway.

You'll also get the people insulted by being offered a "hard mode" and a "easy mode"

Well, I think it's a good idea which you correctly point out has a flawed presentation. Perhaps it might be better to say, Well, I have a fun list, or I have a tournament list; which should of game would you like to play?

The point behind the basis of it as a game is competition. This comes down to decisions and tactics in game, in addition to your pre-game which includes your list building. If you pick something that works, you're playing the game. Do you dumb down when you play poker? Do you run slower when you play soccer? No, even in friendly games you understand that there's a winner and a loser. Why get upset if you lose, regardless of how the game went? If you're upset, it shouldn't be at your opponent for being the one who came out on top.

That doesn't mean cheat, but if it's within the rules to do something it's fair gaming. Anyone who claims it's not sportsmanlike to play within the rules shouldn't be playing.

TheHarleqwin wrote:Anyone who claims it's not sportsmanlike to play within the rules shouldn't be playing.

I strongly agree.

TheHarleqwin wrote: Do you dumb down when you play poker? Do you run slower when you play soccer

I might, if I were playing with a child, or someone I knew was just learning how to play. "Sporting" works in both directions; that's the reason the concept of a handicap exists. When I play with my 14 year old nephew, intentionally using a less competitive list makes the game more even-footed for us both, and hence more fun for me.