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Frankly, from reading through this thread I don't really believe the issue is the list, I think the issue is the player. IMO you can likely play the most optimized GK list available but if you are cool and keep it fun your opponent is not likely to be as irked by it as opposed to you being obnoxious about it and adding to the pain of losing with a nasty arttitude. At the same time you can have a "soft" list and still be a tool and the game ends up sucking for your opponent. In the end it is not about the list but about the player behind the list. Unfortunately the hard core lists probably have a far higher percentage of the obnoxious folks behind them than a more fluffy "softer"list only because of the WAAC attitude.

Stravo wrote:Frankly, from reading through this thread I don't really believe the issue is the list, I think the issue is the player. IMO you can likely play the most optimized GK list available but if you are cool and keep it fun your opponent is not likely to be as irked by it as opposed to you being obnoxious about it and adding to the pain of losing with a nasty arttitude. At the same time you can have a "soft" list and still be a tool and the game ends up sucking for your opponent. In the end it is not about the list but about the player behind the list. Unfortunately the hard core lists probably have a far higher percentage of the obnoxious folks behind them than a more fluffy "softer"list only because of the WAAC attitude.

I largely agree with this but I'm actually not sure about the last sentence. My experience is that you get just as many 'difficult' opponents who have 'fluffy' (or sometimes just plain crap) lists as those who field competitive armies. Fortunately 'difficult' players are fairly thin on the ground in this neck of the woods.

I do find that it's rather more likely a 'fluffy' player will omit to tell you things about his list that are pertinent to the game (eg 'my HQ has an orbital strike relay', 'my HQ can seize on 4+', or whatever) until they make the roll whereas more competitive players seem usually to be at pains to go through any special rules their army may possess that might not be obvious. I don't mind this really as it acts as a kind of balancing mechanism (the 'fluffy' list springs surprises that the competitive one does not).

To the OP:
I believe for the most party, every game is worth playing. There are plenty of WAAC players who also goto tournies that are good quality people who are really really good at 40k, WFB, WMHD, etc. Playing them is an opportunity to really learn the ins / outs of the game IF they are also a good sportsman. I know many players in the philadelphia area who can spank me rotten regardless of what I run. They just know the game better, and are all around good players. They can lay the smack down with a geared GT list, or a leveled out with some fun lists.

I would never pass a game against them. Most times I'd probably lose, sometimes I win. The point of playing is to play. To have a fun time away from regular life. Now i've always considered myself to live in a good gaming area as many of the guys who people say they are WAAC, are good solid people. So the game is fun, because "we" make it fun. They know they will get a solid tactical game from me, i'll make them thinking, i'll throw stuff at them they may not have thought of. So they win. I will have a blast playing, so I win to.

Do understand of course, there are also WAAC D-Bags, who just are not fun to play. Nothing says you have to play them, unless your matched against them at a tourney. Play the guys who look like they are always smiling even in defeat at the top tables. You will learn so much in one game.

Stravo wrote:Frankly, from reading through this thread I don't really believe the issue is the list, I think the issue is the player. IMO you can likely play the most optimized GK list available but if you are cool and keep it fun your opponent is not likely to be as irked by it as opposed to you being obnoxious about it and adding to the pain of losing with a nasty arttitude. At the same time you can have a "soft" list and still be a tool and the game ends up sucking for your opponent. In the end it is not about the list but about the player behind the list. Unfortunately the hard core lists probably have a far higher percentage of the obnoxious folks behind them than a more fluffy "softer"list only because of the WAAC attitude.

I agree, it's mainly the attitude of the game what can dertermine, you can laugh and make jokes while trying your hardest to win, or you can sit and stare at each other while fielding a horrible list.

40k is mech spam these days. It wasn't, but it is now. I've never complained about playing against very good lists. But I got tired of it. I should have made better lists myself, but buying, glueing and painting all those razorbacks wasn't for me.

I started playing Hordes instead, solved my problem. I think you should play with the mech spam list not worrying about what others think. Play with the models you like. Only limits are the force organization charts. What other players think is not a limit to your army!