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the Ardent blade:This is a power weapon that always wounds enemies on a 4+ (unless a lower roll would be required) , in addition it can be fired in the shooting phases with the following profile.

Does this mean if i place the template on a t6 model i would only need a 4+ to wound it.

I would say no but after seeing Arjac ruling in the Space Wolf FAQ I would say yes.

Q. Is a model that has suffered an unsaved wound, but
hasn’t been killed, from Arjac throwing his Foehammer
reduced to initiative 1 until the end of the next player
turn? (p51)
A. Yes.

I'd say no, one set of rules apply to the close combat attack, but a separate profile applies to the shooting attack.

AnomanderRake wrote:I'd say no, one set of rules apply to the close combat attack, but a separate profile applies to the shooting attack.

Expect the space wolf FAQ says otherwise.

if there was a period i would agree but it says

In Addition

Necrosis wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:I'd say no, one set of rules apply to the close combat attack, but a separate profile applies to the shooting attack.

Expect the space wolf FAQ says otherwise.

That's a really weird FAQ. Given that it's usually not OK to extrapolate rules from another book's FAQ ruling, I think the safest thing to do is to just treat it like a regular Heavy Flamer.

Amerikon wrote:That's a really weird FAQ. Given that it's usually not OK to extrapolate rules from another book's FAQ ruling, I think the safest thing to do is to just treat it like a regular Heavy Flamer.

Where does it say that it is not OK to extrapolate rules from another book's FAQ. Unless two FAQ contradict each other, it seems to be the logical thing to do.

For instance
Q: Can a Baal Predator use smoke launchers during its
Scout move? (p36)
A: Yes

which also means if i scout move my Immolaters i can pop smoke

Necrosis wrote:

Amerikon wrote:That's a really weird FAQ. Given that it's usually not OK to extrapolate rules from another book's FAQ ruling, I think the safest thing to do is to just treat it like a regular Heavy Flamer.

Where does it say that it is not OK to extrapolate rules from another book's FAQ. Unless two FAQ contradict each other, it seems to be the logical thing to do.

Well it certainly doesn't say it anywhere, but FAQs are usually specific to whatever they're FAQing. The Baal Predator example would work because it's talking about vehicles with Scouts using smoke launchers, it's a specific example of a general case. The Foehammer FAQ is explicitly specifying the behavior of a unique item.

From that you actually have to make two extrapolations. First, that the Foehammer will stun an enemy it was "shot" at because it's also a thunder hammer and it's properties as a thunder hammer are applied to shooting attacks as well as CC attacks. Second, that therefore all CC weapons with a shooting ability have any CC special rules applied to that shooting ability. I don't think there's any justification for making either of those. Foehammer stuns its targets because it is Foehammer and was FAQ'd as such.

If we continued to apply that logic, we could conclude that since the Ardent Blade is a power weapon, the unit hit by the shooting attack gets no armor save.

i was going along those lines also but here is the catch Power weapons are only used in CC.

The always wounds on a 4+ is not however,

The ardent blade always wounds on a 4+ in the shooting phase you are firing The Ardent Blade.


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Now if it said the Ardent blade ignored armour saves and always wounded on a 4+, in addtion can be fired in the shooting phase,

then by golly gee willickers i would say she shoots winds of chaos. but it does not.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:i was going along those lines also but here is the catch Power weapons are only used in CC.

The always wounds on a 4+ is not however,

The ardent blade always wounds on a 4+ in the shooting phase you are firing The Ardent Blade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now if it said the Ardent blade ignored armour saves and always wounded on a 4+, in addtion can be fired in the shooting phase,

then by golly gee willickers i would say she shoots winds of chaos. but it does not.

I think that's a better argument than the one from the FAQ. That said, I think you'd have a hard time convincing people of it.

There are two ways to read it. 1) The blade wounds on a 4+ or better in all circumstances. 2) The blade is a power weapon that wounds on a 4+, or it can be an S5 template. I think 2 is much more likely especially given the way the text is.

"This is a power weapon that always wounds enemies on a 4+. In addition, it can fire with the following profile..."
This seems like an "either/or" situation. It's either a power weapon that wounds on 4+ OR a S5 template.

I disagree. And Celestine is a regular part of my army. IMO, the shooting is separate from the wounds on a 4+.

don_mondo wrote:I disagree. And Celestine is a regular part of my army. IMO, the shooting is separate from the wounds on a 4+.

You are correct, sir!

But what are you shooting?

The Ardent Blade which as has been stated always wounds on a 4+ (unless a lesser roll is required)

What's stated is that the Ardent Blade is a power weapon that always wounds on a 4+. Well, how then, can you shoot a power weapon?

" it can be fired in the shooting phases with the following profile. " means you do not get the "always wounds enemies on a 4+ (unless a lower roll would be required)"

Since in the shooting phase you can fire it, and you must use the profile listed.

Note: this is not going to matter much, as you will wound most things on a 3+ with the shooting part of it anyway.

You use the profile, as you are told to.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:But what are you shooting?

While I am indeed shooting the Ardent Blade, I'm also given a profile to use that is completely separate from the wounds on a 4+ power weapon.

No where does the ardent blade say that it wound on a 4+ in CC

it says it is a power weapon that wounds on a 4+. in addtion can be fired.

So yes it has a Str5 ap4 profile when fired, but what is negating the the always wounds on a 4+

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:No where does the ardent blade say that it wound on a 4+ in CC

it says it is a power weapon that wounds on a 4+. in addtion can be fired.

So yes it has a Str5 ap4 profile when fired, but what is negating the the always wounds on a 4+

First of all, quote the entire rule:
"In addition, it can fire in the Shooting phase WITH THE FOLLOWING PROFILE:

Range template, Strength 5, AP 4, Type Assault 1

Now, where in that profile do you see anything about wounding on a 4+? That's right, you don't! And THAT is what negates the wounds on a 4+, the fact that it is not in the profile you are given to use when shooting the Ardent blade. no easter Egg here.

But what are you firing?

the ardent blade, which wounds on a 4+

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:But what are you firing?

the ardent blade, which wounds on a 4+

And round and round we go. No, you are firing the Ardent Blade using the assigned weapon profile, you are not firing a power weapon that wounds on a 4+. What about this is so hard to understand?

yep but the special rules say it is wounding on a 4+

Does not say it is wounding on a 4+ only in CC

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:yep but the special rules say it is wounding on a 4+

Does not say it is wounding on a 4+ only in CC

Range template, Strength 5, AP 4, Type Assault 1

Where in that profile does it say it wounds on a 4+?

"In addition, it can fire in the Shooting phase WITH THE FOLLOWING PROFILE"

That negates the use of the 4+ to wound, as you use the following profile when using it as a shooting attack.

Not that it matters really, you will wound on a 4+ or better with the "Range template, Strength 5, AP 4, Type Assault 1" 95% of the time anyway.

my main Hookup is

In addition. after it saysit wounds on a4+ there is a comma not a period. so to me it means it wounds on a 4 + with the folling profile

The comma does not matter, as it tells you to use a specific profile for the shooting part.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:my main Hookup is

In addition. after it saysit wounds on a4+ there is a comma not a period. so to me it means it wounds on a 4 + with the folling profile

rigeld2 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:yep but the special rules say it is wounding on a 4+

Does not say it is wounding on a 4+ only in CC

Range template, Strength 5, AP 4, Type Assault 1

Where in that profile does it say it wounds on a 4+?

Could you answer my question please?

it matter lots.

the profile gives you everything you need to fire a weapon. and how to fire it. but at what point in time do you lose wounding on a 4+?

the In addition says

wounds on a 4+, in addtion to wounding on a 4+ it can be fired....

if there was a period it would be no contest, for the words in addition would be out of place


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rigeld2 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:my main Hookup is

In addition. after it saysit wounds on a4+ there is a comma not a period. so to me it means it wounds on a 4 + with the folling profile

rigeld2 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:yep but the special rules say it is wounding on a 4+

Does not say it is wounding on a 4+ only in CC

Range template, Strength 5, AP 4, Type Assault 1

Where in that profile does it say it wounds on a 4+?

Could you answer my question please?

i am, under the profile The Ardent Blade.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:i am, under the profile The Ardent Blade.

That's not the profile you're told to use.
Under the profile you're told to use, where do you see a rule allowing a 4+ to wound?