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Been back in the hobby for about a year now, mainly painting and modelling.

I have come to expect a level of service from online retailers that frankly have not been meet by any retailer of miniatures and hobby products i have tried.
The worst so far has been Wayland while the best has been Maelstrom.

Waylands website, customer service and order processing time ( from order placed to dispatch) has been terrible.
Items showing as in stock when they are not, non answers or stock answers from customer service.

Maelstrom while they can be slow i have found there customer service much better and the site while not perfect at least has some order to it.

Ebay has also been good but hit and miss if i can find what i want

Why do we in this hobby accept a level of service that we would not from anywhere else? And do you have any suggestions for other places i could use?

edit: Can anyone also tell me why both Maelstrom and Wayland take money before dispatch?

Things are a lot better over hear on this side of the Atlantic. We have Miniature Market, The War Store and Discount Games on eBay. All amazing.

In the UK, the best service comes from small independent companies. Ground Zero Games, EM4, 15mm.co.uk, Heresy Miniatures, Critical Mass Games. Guys like that. For some reason UK resellers are not up to the standards of American ones. But their independent miniature makers are top notch.

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My experience has been directly the opposite of the OPs. I have found Wayland to be the best and Maelstrom to be the worst but to be honest, there isn't really nay difference between the two. In the main, the delays are usually caused by GW; they only allow independent retailers to order once per week on a Friday so if you order on a Saturday for example, you will have to wait nearly a full week before your order is even restocked from GW, assuming it wasn't in stock already.

filbert wrote:In the main, the delays are usually caused by GW; they only allow independent retailers to order once per week on a Friday so if you order on a Saturday for example, you will have to wait nearly a full week before your order is even restocked from GW, assuming it wasn't in stock already.

^ and GW doesnt care for wayland as they are vocal against GW embargo and FC

Metal and plastic miniatures are not perishable goods. Doesn't matter if it takes 3 or 6 days until they arrive ... and join the pile of unfinished miniatures. And I accept that small companies in the hobby can't deliver the same high standards in service as a multi-million dollar business as Amazon. If you can't accept this, just order from multi-million dollar companies, including GW mailorder.

filbert wrote:My experience has been directly the opposite of the OPs. I have found Wayland to be the best and Maelstrom to be the worst but to be honest, there isn't really nay difference between the two. In the main, the delays are usually caused by GW; they only allow independent retailers to order once per week on a Friday so if you order on a Saturday for example, you will have to wait nearly a full week before your order is even restocked from GW, assuming it wasn't in stock already.

I agree with filbert: Wayland>Maelstrom, that's not to say the later is bad by any means.

I think GW only allow one order per week, that's not to say it takes a week to be delivered. I also see this fact being used buy retailers to hold the minimum stock they can. Which worked perfectly when you could use the GW trade counter everyday but this changed sometime ago so why are the retailers not holding more stock? It seems to me they act as middlemen /agents rather than retailers. I agree with GWs stance on this as it forces retailers to be act in the customers interests (and GWs of course). This should mean better, more stocked retailers. I think Wayland do this living quite close to them as I do.

Incidentally I seem to remember the OP wailing on Wayland in other threads over the last couple of weeks, I would hate to think this is a troll thread?

Can't recommend Ground Zero Games enough. For a one-man operation, they are managing to dispatch orders almost before I even make them.

Wayland + Maelstrom can be equally rubbish, or equally good. Maelstrom need to sort out how they fulfil pre-orders though. Maybe by actually filling them first?

OP - The reason companies take money before dispatch is that they need to know that they are getting your money before they ship you the goods. It's like going in to a shop and the tills being on the outside.

I agree with Wayland being realy bad with shipping. I have placed 3 diffrent orders over the past 3 months and every one has taken two weeks to process. I think it is clear they are not holding enough stock. This is not down to GW, this is down to them. I cannot beleve that every one had stuff that was out of stock and took that long to come back in.

However, I accept this because it is stuff I can wait for and the discount is the best. If I want something fast I will order from somewhere else for less discount, and if I want it now I will walk down to GW at lunch and pay full price.

I had looked in to becoming a GW reseller previoulsy on behalf of someone and if you look at their reseller terms it states that you can only buy a certain amount of each product therefore I would assume that these companies have run out of stock. I would personally consider this GW's fault as they are the ones limiting retailers.

Dark Sphere>Gifts for Geeks>Maelstrom>Wayland

Wayland Games are just bad, especially when there are cheaper and faster companies. Go to Dark Sphere, give them your money.

I used to use Wayland but now they've pushed me beyond acceptable limits. Their loss, I'll be in this hobby for a long, long time and GW won't stop releasing shiny new toys. I'll go in-store and pay the massive mark-up before I order from Wayland again.

I've found Wayland and Maelstrom to be about the same - but since the embargo, I don't buy GW stuff (from anyone) anymore, so the delays aren't so noticeable.

Except when I tried to order some WM/H stuff during the popularity boom last year (and EVERYONE - local and international - was out of stock of Long gunners and gun mages for Cygnar for several months).

I'd like to reiterate that GZG own at post. I just got an order delivered that I made YESTERDAY, after 1pm. Beat that.

Both wayland and maelstorm have delays, but they also have discounts and above all both owners are legit and honest and try their best to bring you the goods and thats good enough for me.

GZG is amazing I can confirm that, and so many other stores like fenris games, antenocitti etc etc.

For the most part we are looking at a couple weeks extra and in rare cases like wharmachine out of stock at supplier more ( but many of these delays are not the fault of these stores...)

I've had good service from the Warstore. For international deals, EM4 is a standout. They ship from UK to US extremely quickly and affordably.

Maelstrom are awful they consistently sell items that are not only out of stock at there warehouse but also out of stock with their suppliers. They do this despite listing the items in stock on there website. This results in huge (months) delays on orders. Do not use them.

In terms of service firestorm games has to be no1 though there range is more limited than some other online stores.

@notprop: Not a troll!

I have been vocal about my dislike of Wayland because they say they are Europe's biggest retailer and the service i have got form them has been in the main bad. ( 6 orders with only 2 without problems )

Maelstrom is not without it's problems but the customer service has been great the 1 time i have had a problem with them.

poor service seems to tolerated more in this industrie and i would like to know why?

In my area there are no indie stores only a GW, so for all my non GW products i have to order online. I have only tried Wayland, Maelstrom and a handful for ebay sellers. which is why i asked for other suggestions.

Lately I have only been buying my Warmachine stuff from Miniature Market and have been more then happy with them and their prices.

Delays with Mealstrom and Wayland are quite common, same with darksphere and gifts for geeks too at times.
These delays all have one thing in common,
GW.

I think some people are a bit unrealistic about their expectations.

10% discount and free postage is not a business model that = instant teleportation on clicking the Buy button.

UK law allows retailers 28 days to send a mail order. The postal service can delay things even if a seller can ship the same day as receiving the order.

I have Amazon Prime (which isn't free) and they make mistakes sometimes, though normally it's awesome.

While talking about anecdotal evidence, I've had a number of orders from Maelstrom, Heresy, Hasslefree, Infinity Games, and various other internet shops, which were all fine. Antenociti's Workshop made a mistake on one order but they fixed it as soon as I rang them.

As a boring old fart, I can assure you that things are a great deal better now than in the old days when I had to send an order form in the post.

There's always high street retail if you are desperate to get something.

Make an order from Ground Zero Games or EM4 and you'll see that meeting expectations beyond anything Wayland or Maelstrom can do can be business as usual.

People are starting to get that it's 2012 and not 2002. Wayland comes across like they are a decade in the past. Unreliable stock indications, poor communication, delays, etc.,.

However, even back in 1999, Neal at thewarstore.com was getting it right. I've never heard anything bad about Dark Sphere, but the UK discount resellers can't seem to match the US based ones. It's like night and day.

Rayvon wrote:Delays with Mealstrom and Wayland are quite common, same with darksphere and gifts for geeks too at times.
These delays all have one thing in common,
GW.

Sure. GW was responsible for my "in stock" Hordes figures taking 3 weeks to ship?

Rayvon wrote:Delays with Mealstrom and Wayland are quite common, same with darksphere and gifts for geeks too at times.
These delays all have one thing in common,
GW.

My most recent order was for some Malifaux figs. Showing as in stock. nearly 2 weeks to get them dispatched.

I don't hold companies responsible for the failings of the Royal Mail as once the items leave them they have no control. I do however expect them to know what's happening with an order before it's sent off.

However, I accept this because it is stuff I can wait for and the discount is the best. If I want something fast I will order from somewhere else for less discount, and if I want it now I will walk down to GW at lunch and pay full price.

This. Plan the purchases ahead of time and I can save some money.

I've currently got an order through Maelstrom dispatched at the moment, and an order through Combat Company on it's way from Queensland as well. Both have yet to arrive. Having said that, the maelstrom orders in the past have never been an issue, as i've expected them to take a while, and the combat company i can't recommend enough. Russell's service is top notch and always gets back to me with a day.

Try living across the other side of the world (and on that note... /rant before it starts)

Guess there is a TFG equivalent for customers:
People who want the best product for half production cost and free shipping with next day delivery, wrapped in gift paper with the option to send it back on a whim for full refund.
They are the bane of all small manufacturers and internet shops.

I don't believe it's anything relating to "TFG" to expect something which is listed as "In Stock" to be shipped out in under five days.

Of course, there's exceptions like if you don't specify an order split and part of it is preorder material, etc--but for the most part I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

Yes, be careful with the "TFG" label! From what I've seen, both poor-service stores and poor-expectations customers are too quick to apply this label... when often, things can be worked out with a simple email or phone call. I've yet to have a hobby-related store NOT resolve my issue when called... remember, there are people on both sides, and people make mistakes (and are usually willing to fix them, if asked, as it's in both sides best interest to do so).

Kroothawk wrote:Guess there is a TFG equivalent for customers:
People who want the best product for half production cost and free shipping with next day delivery, wrapped in gift paper with the option to send it back on a whim for full refund.
They are the bane of all small manufacturers and internet shops.

Wayland can hardly be counted as a small internet shop, can it?

Kroothawk wrote:Guess there is a TFG equivalent for customers:
People who want the best product for half production cost and free shipping with next day delivery, wrapped in gift paper with the option to send it back on a whim for full refund.
They are the bane of all small manufacturers and internet shops.

I think almost everyone would be happy if the online retailers only were marginally cheaper than buying direct and spent the rest of the "discount" to invest in proper store room monkeys and some sort of live stock status.

Its not small mom & pop businesses we're talking about here. It's two of the biggest online retailers in the EU.

Holding your money in limbo for weeks without any communication on whats happening is just not acceptable. Especially not when other mail order oriented companies of similar size can manage to send you an e-mail ASAP if you order something that happens to be out of stock.

The solution is simple. Buy from GW instead. Whatever else people might say about GW, their mail order service is usually reliable and quick.