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Got a game in with Shaun yesterday. He's using a Space Wolf list, which I gave him some suggestions on - lets see if it works or not!

I'll be using the broken and unbeatable Grey Knights

Grey Knights 'Purifier Order' - 2,000 points


HQ


Castellan Crowe

Elite


Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons + psybolt ammo
Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons + psybolt ammo

Troops


5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhinos - 2 x psycannons, nemesis halberd, nemesis daemon hammer - Justicar w/ nemesis daemon hammer

Heavy Support


Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons + psybolt ammo
Dreadnought - 2 x twin-linked autocannons + psybolt ammo

Space Wolves - 2,000 points


HQ


Wolf Lord - power fist, runic armour, storm shield, thunderwolf mount, ferisian wolf & saga of the bear
Wolf Lord - frost axe, runic armour, storm shield, thunderwolf mount, ferisian wolf & saga of the warrior born

Troops


10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns, wolf standard & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns, wolf standard & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns, wolf standard & mark of the wulfren
10 x Grey Hunters w/ Rhino - 2 x flamers, wolf standard & mark of the wulfren

Fast Attack


4 x Thunderwolf Cavalry - 2 x storm shields, power fist & melta bombs

Heavy Support


5 x Long Fangs - 4 x missile launchers
5 x Long Fangs - 4 x missile launchers
5 x Long Fangs - 4 x missile launchers

Pre-Game Analysis


Ok, this should be interesting. Shaun's list is pretty tough, he's got two tough HQs, both which will wreck my stuff, long range fire support from Long Fangs, short ranged from melta, and plasma and flamers to deal with my Purifiers up close and personal. Add in the Thunderwolves who can trash anything they feel like.

If I can nail the Long Fangs first when Shaun closes in, then this will take out his long range support and leave my vehicles mostly intact. The Thunderwolves and Wolf Lords will be tough, though if I can blast the Lord with the fist and multi assault the Lord with the frost, then I could I.D that Lord with S10 hammers.

Game: Capture & Control + Pitched Battle

Deployment


Shaun wins the deployment and deploys first. He puts his objective top right corner and places a unit of Long Fangs in the same ruins as his objective. He then puts the Rhinos in front of the ruin, the two Wolf Lords behind the Rhinos, both have joined together to form a super unit. In a ruin centre on his deploy edge Shaun puts another Fang unit with Thunderwolves behind the ruin and in a ruin on the left flank the last unit of Long Fangs.

I put my objective at the edge of a ruin in the centre about 2" from my table edge. I deploy all Rhinos in the centre, long ways on in two rows of three. Dreadnoughts go behind with the Venerables on either flank. Crowe takes cover in the same ruin as my objective.







* Tactical Notes


Ok, Shaun has got his deployment pretty much spot on. He has his Long Fangs spread out and they are in elevated positions, they can see practically all over the battlefield and reach any where they want. His Thunderwolf models are all tucked away out of LOS and the Rhinos are all together, instead of spread like he usually does.


I'll have to bend over and take what Shaun is bringing first turn, which will just be his Long Fangs firing. I'll gun down a unit at a time with the Dreadnoughts while psycannons start blasting at the oncoming Rhinos, if I can stun or immobilised one of the front Rhinos, then I'll be happy as it will cause a road block.


Turn 1


Shaun's Rhinos come barrelling down the hill at me, all move 12" and the front two pop smoke, they give cover to the ones behind, which will be out of range of my psycannons anyway. All wolf models start moving out, though I think Shaun forgets to run them as they do not move very far.

Shooting; Long Fangs blast me front Rhinos and score weapon destroyed and shaken on the centre front Rhino and stunned on the Rhino at the front on the right. That's it!

My first turn and no movement from me! .

Shooting; all Dreadnoughts blast the Long Fang unit on the left flank, the Long Fang in the centre I have cover from thanks to the large tower ruin and the other Long Fang unit can only the Rhino up front on the right. The entire unit of Long Fangs are wiped out after 16 S8 autocannon shots. Psycannons blast the front Rhinos, which I manage to cause shaken on one and stunned on another.





* Tactical Notes


Not a too bad first turn.; I couldn't fire a squad from the shaken Rhino as I failed psychic test and got perils, it was shaken again and a few units were out of range. But on the whole I've stopped a Rhino for a turn and totally wiped out a Long Fang unit. I think Shaun has also done me a favour by keeping those Thunderwolves back, at least have brought me another turn before they reach my lines, maybe fourth turn looking at the position of the Thunderwolf unit.


Next turn I'll blast the centre Long Fang unit with Dreadnoughts and hopefully wipe them out. Psycannons will empty into any unit which comes forward, though I'll start on melta units first, don't want my G.K's out the Rhinos


Turn 2


The shaken Rhino carrying a melta unit moves forward 12" and the squad bails out and prepares to bring melta death. The other two mobile Rhinos move forward 12" and pop smoke, the plasma carrying Rhino is in between the shaken and stunned Rhinos. Thunderwolf unit comes down the table more so supporting the flamer Rhino while the Wolf Lords come down the right flank using the shrine ruin to block LOS.

Shooting; meltas blast into my Rhino at the front on the right and it goes boom, a psycannon snuffs it in the blast. Long Fangs fire at remaining Rhinos, Rhino in the centre now takes weapon destroyed while the one on the left at the front takes a stunned result.

Grey Knights turn; Purifiers now on foot move out the crater of their tank and get ready to charge some Space Wolves, unit of Purifiers out the centre tank also bail out and move to support them. Crowe comes out to play and moves to join in the party with the two Purifier units. Dreadnoughts split away in pairs so bunched up on either flank, this is to get LOS better on the Long Fang unit in the ruin in the centre.

Shooting; Dreadnoughts dakka dakka the Long Fangs and the entire unit is wiped out, only one unit remains which sits on Shaun's objective. Psycannons blast and wreck the Rhino carrying the plasma-hunters - squad is pinned and stun the melta Rhino which was previously stunned last turn. Storm bolters and psycannons blast into the Grey Hunters, they take a morale test and pass.

Assault; Purifiers and Crowe charge into the Space Wolves, Crowe casts cleansing flame and shockingly wounds all six surviving Grey Hunters, which only two survive the burning flames, Crowe kills one and the halberds get another - oh one squad also multi assaults the Rhino, which is immobilised thanks to psycannon fire, the squad did cast hammerhand and a psycannon totting Purifier punches his hand through it and rips the engine block out - the tank is wrecked.





* Tactical Notes


Ok, it's going well. Two Rhinos are down, melta unit destroyed (Crowe's flame did extremely well) and plasma unit pinned.


I've taken some damage this turn, I've lost a Rhino and a Purifier is down, those Thunderwolves are also drawing close and maybe in range for a charge, though I did pull my Purifiers back, hopefully they are out of range.


Next turn I'll send Crowe up to tackle the plasma unit, that unit will get blasted first. One of the Purifier units on foot will get back into their tank for safety. I'll just wait until the Wolves come closer, hopefully I can tackle all of Shaun's troop choices as he hasn't held any back to claim his own objective.


Turn 3


Wolf Lords come running down the shrine, it will be close if they get Crowe. Rhino carrying the flamer unit moves 12" and uses the centre tower ruin for cover, Thunderwolves move up with them using the Rhino for cover.

Shooting; only the Long Fangs are able to fire as the Rhino holding the other melta unit is stunned and the plasma unit is pinned. Long Fangs blast the Rhino in the centre at the front and it's wrecked, looks like I am not getting back inside it.

Assault; Wolf Lords try to assault Crowe, though are 2" out, lucky for Crowe...

Crowe moves up towards the plasma unit, while Dreadnoughts shuffle along to get into range of the Long Fangs in the corner ruin.

Shooting; Dreadnoughts fire at the Long Fangs, though two are out of range and I only end up killing the squad leader. Psycannons blast the flamer Rhino and it goes boom, only a single Grey Hunter dies from the explosion and the squad passes pinning test. Two more units blast into the flamer Grey Hunter unit, one unit gets 4 rending wounds, only two Grey Hunters remain and they pass morale. Psycannons blast into the plasma unit to soften them up for Crowe, four die and the squad passes morale test.

Assault; Crowe charges the Grey Hunters and casts hammerhand, he uses sword storm and kills three Grey Hunters. Grey Hunters fail to wound Crowe and lose combat, they are caught by sweeping advance and lose another two Marines thanks to fearless wounds, the single Grey Hunter falls back while Crowe consolidates 1".







* Tactical Notes


All is going well for me at the moment, anything which comes towards me is either getting the dakka treatment or getting punched in the face. Another Rhino has been popped and almost two squads have been destroyed.


Shaun hasn't had a great turn, but I think things may turn around for him. His Wolf Lords will definitely be in assault range this turn, same for the Thunderwolves, who might be able to multi assault. I also doubt Crowe is going to last long as there's meltas about 2" away from him...good bye Crowe


Next turn, if Crowe survives I'll get him to chase after the falling back Grey Hunter and if possible assault, though I doubt this will happen. Dreadnoughts and a few squads will fire into the Wolf Lords while two Purifier units will deal with the Thunderwolves, if I can get hammerhand off then I am alright.


Turn 4


The Rhino holding the last melta unit moves 6" towards my lines so Crowe doesn't auto hit next turn, if he survives. Wolf Lord unit moves up and is ready to charge the Purifiers in the tank crater on the right flank. Thunderwolves move and run down, they should be in assault.

Shooting; Long Fangs blast a Dreadnought, it gets cover from the Rhinos and is fine. Meltas fire at Crowe, only one hits and wounds and Crowe passes invulnerable save.

Assault; Wolf Lords charge into terrain and attack the Purifiers, I cast hammerhand and the halberd wounds the frost axe Lord, who passes invulnerable save, in return the frost axe kills all my Purifiers and next turn will get a extra 4 attacks! Thunderwolves multi assault unit of Purifiers by the centre wrecked tank and attack the Rhino on the front left, Purifiers cast hammerhand, at the end of combat two Thunderwolves are mush thanks to daemon hammers, the Rhino is wrecked and all Purifiers are dead thanks to them being fearless.

Grey Knights turn; squad out the wrecked Rhino moves up to tackle the unit of two remaining Thunderwolves, Crowe moves and runs towards Space Wolves objective while everything else remains static.

Shooting; Dreadnoughts and two Purifier units blast into the Wolf Lords, both Fenrisian Wolves are dead and the Frost-Lord is toast. Two units of Purifiers including the unit on foot blasts the Thunderwolves and scores a single wound.

Assault; Purifiers charge the Thunderwolves and cast hammerhand, but the warriors of titan fail and are completely destroyed while the Thunderwolves roam free.







* Tactical Notes

Ok, Shaun has caused some decent amount of damage this turn. He's took out the last Rhino on the front row and destroyed three Purifier squads; half my troop units. The Thunderwolves have caused the most damage by taking out two Purifier units and a Rhino.

I can't say I've done too bad myself. The frost axe wielding Wolf Lord is toast, the Thunderwolves have been cut down and Crowe is on his merry way and at least can cause a distraction.

Next turn Crowe will continue running if he is still alive, units will blast the Thunderwolves and Wolf Lord to bits.

Turn 5

Last Rhino moves 6" and targets Crowe with dual meltas. Wolf Lord smashes his way through terrain and past my objective and is ready to charge a Venerable Dreadnought. Thunderwolves smash their way through terrain and are ready to multi assault a Rhino and the other Venerable. The single Grey Hunter moves and runs onto the Space Wolf objective.

Shooting; Long Fangs blast the same Dreadnought again and cause shaken. Meltas blast and slag Crowe, if I had any chance of getting Shaun's objective there it goes. That's it for Shaun.

Assault; Thunderwolves charge the Dreadnought and Rhino, score no damage to against the Dreadnought, though the Dreadnought puts a wound on the power fist, though the power fist smashes the Rhino and it goes ka-boom! Wolf Lord charges the Venerable and scores weapon destroyed and shaken.

My fifth turn; Rhino closest to the Wolf Lord moves and through terrain and parks on my objective, unfortunately the Wolf Lord is still within 3" so I need to get him killed - he's got a single wound left. I bail out a unit of Purifiers from the centre rear Rhino and they move to assault the Wolf Lord while their Dreadnought moves to into terrain to block off the Thunderwolves in case they flank around, the Rhino gets immobilised thanks to dangerous terrain. Shaken Dreadnought passes fortitude and passes.

Shooting; the Purifiers on my objective blast the oncoming melta Rhino and score immobilised, the Dreadnoughts blast the Long Fangs as cannot draw LOS on the surviving Grey Hunter, fail to kill any Long Fangs.

Assault; Purifiers out the exploded Rhino charge into the Thunderwolves, hammerhand fails, the plain Thunderwolf dies while the power fist smacks the Dreadnought about, Purifiers lose combat and one Purifiers dies thanks to fearless wounds. Purifiers charge the Wolf Lord and cast hammerhand, the Wolf Lord takes a pounding and has a single wound left, the Venerable Dreadnought gets battered and is now immobilised and has no arms left.







* Tactical Notes


Ok, Shaun has hit back and hit hard. The problem with the Purifier list is getting objective in capture and control, they really need to stay static to blast out the high fire power they have. Crowe was my small chance of getting the Wolf objective and he has been slagged. The Thunderwolves also are not dying as quick as I'd like and the Wolf Lord contests my objective, if the game ends then Shaun has got a deserved win.


If there's a next turn, I might bail out the Purifiers from the Rhino on my objective and batter the crap out of the Wolf Lord.


Turn 6


Game continues, lucky for me!

Only movement from Shaun is the two flamer Grey Hunters who move up and get ready to support the Thunderwolf in combat.

Shooting; Long Fangs fire at the immobilised Rhino as it's the only thing they can see which hasn't got cover, they score weapon destroyed. That's it!

Assault; Purifiers vs the Wolf Lord, Purifiers casts hammerhand and fail to finish off the Wolf Lord, the Venerable isn't so lucky and the Wolf Lord manages to wreck it. Purifiers vs the Thunderwolf, Grey Hunters pile in, the Dreadnought takes some damage and like a noob I didn't even pay attention to the Grey Hunters and put all attacks on the Thunderwolf, which I fail to kill - Purifiers lose combat and three survive.

No movement from me this turn.

Shooting; Purifiers on my objective blast the immoblised Rhino, only score minor damage. Autocannons blast the Long Fangs again, though fail to kill any. That's it!

Assault; Purifiers against the Wolf Lord cast hammerhand and the halberd kills the Wolf Lord before he can strike, yay! Purifiers again fail to kill the Thunderwolf, though do kill a Grey Hunter.





* Tactical Notes


Thew, that was a close one. If the game ends now I've got a draw, that damn Wolf Lord just wouldn't die. Speaking of not dying, that Thunderwolf is invincible!


Turn 7


Game rages on!

Grey Hunters bail out the immobilised Rhino, they move and run forward. That's it movement wise. Shooting the Long Fangs blast the immobilised Rhino, they fail to take it out. In assault the Thunderwolf cleans house, the Venerable Dreadnought explodes twice, that's with a re-roll too btw and all Purifiers are dead, though I did take down the last Grey Hunter locked in that combat.

My turn, shooting I blast the Grey Hunters out the Rhino, they take a morale test and fail and fall back.

Game ends with a well fought draw.





Summary


Not only was that a epic long game, but it was pretty brutal as well. For the first few turns I held Shaun at bay and dakka'd anything which came within range and punched anything to death which came too close. And then came the Thunderwolves and it all changed, these guys cleaned house. In a single turn the Thunderwolves took out two Purifier units and a Rhino. I think overall they killed three Purifier units, a Rhino and a Venerable Dreadnought, that's about 700 points of my army!

I think I played well, the only mistake I made was being dumb and not paying attention which the Grey Hunters charged into combat with the Thunderwolf, could have killed them and maybe they failed morale, maybe...

Shaun played well, I think his only mistake was having those Thunderwolf units dither about and not get them into assault quicker. If both units would have been placed a little closer and also run in the first turn, then they may have made assault the third turn instead of fourth and perhaps had a bigger impact on the game.

List wise I think Shaun has it spot on. The list is pretty brutal and should be able to deal anything what is thrown at it.

Awesome battle !!!

If he deployed front most with his TWC and ran them behind that building he should have had a turn two assault unless you move to react, which in itself is a small victory as it halves your firepower. Also next time tell him to shoot at the dreads not rhinos lol. All those weapon destroyed results would have mattered.

Good game as always Mercer! Nice to see a blood bath!

Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you get tired of playing the same list and deploying the exact same way every game (that I have read a report for)?

Just seems like you're playing the same game over and over, it would be very repetitive for me. In every one that I have read, I see all that nice terrain and wonder why there is a square block of GK's in the rear centre ...again. Regardless, looks like you had fun rolling dice - and I do like that terrain!

SBG wrote:Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you get tired of playing the same list and deploying the exact same way every game (that I have read a report for)?

Just seems like you're playing the same game over and over, it would be very repetitive for me. In every one that I have read, I see all that nice terrain and wonder why there is a square block of GK's in the rear centre ...again.

mercer wrote:
[I'm pretty sure I've contributed more to this forum than you have

That's his big contribution to this forum. Don't interupt him.

I think some people find a list they like and play it into the ground.

And if it works for them, then that's great, however repetitive. It is about having fun, after all!

I dont understand how its a "well fought draw" , both of you basically said screw the objective and just went to kill eachother.

Mercer this is like the third report I read where you deploy in that slow 2x3 formation, and just roll slow dice the entire game.

You have a bad list, and you play is poorly. You didnt put ANYTHING to go get his objective, and even if you tabled him you were playing for the draw the entire game.

Your opponent did the same thing, and DIDNT leave any units at his objective, GIVING you the draw.

PLAY THE OBJECTIVE, or ALL YOU DO will draw

I was amazed that the SW player did not pull out the win in this one - by the end of the report with the enemy objective contested I sort of assumed that he must have his objective in hand...then come to see he moved all his scoring units away from it!

A strategy I have used in CnC is to advance with everything, but as soon as a unit is blown out of their vehicle (or it becomes immobile) I start moving back towards my own obejctive with that unit (rather than be left behind and vulnerable).

Also, given the terrain layout and placement of the buildings, I am surprised that the SW player did not advance across your right Flank using the large building there as cover for the TWC. From there you can charge almost on top of the objective.

Similarly for Long Fang deployment, they do not need to shoot into your deployment zone, they just need to have clear lines of fire to halt your advance. This could have kept them out of LoS of the dreads, while smashing vehicles as they tried to make it past midfield.

-666- wrote:Awesome battle !!!

Thanks, dude.

Red Corsair wrote:If he deployed front most with his TWC and ran them behind that building he should have had a turn two assault unless you move to react, which in itself is a small victory as it halves your firepower. Also next time tell him to shoot at the dreads not rhinos lol. All those weapon destroyed results would have mattered.

Good game as always Mercer! Nice to see a blood bath!

I think you're right on both accounts. Thanks about the report

SBG wrote:Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you get tired of playing the same list and deploying the exact same way every game (that I have read a report for)?

Just seems like you're playing the same game over and over, it would be very repetitive for me. In every one that I have read, I see all that nice terrain and wonder why there is a square block of GK's in the rear centre ...again. Regardless, looks like you had fun rolling dice - and I do like that terrain!

Sometimes I do. It depends who I am against. In this case and with the last time I used Purifiers (against jumper Angels) both enemy armies are coming to me, so why move out to meet and greet them? May as well stay static and blast them to bits.

Thanks about the terrain, dude

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I think some people find a list they like and play it into the ground.

Aye that, then it becomes boring

Smitty0305 wrote:I dont understand how its a "well fought draw" , both of you basically said screw the objective and just went to kill eachother.

Mercer this is like the third report I read where you deploy in that slow 2x3 formation, and just roll slow dice the entire game.

You have a bad list, and you play is poorly. You didnt put ANYTHING to go get his objective, and even if you tabled him you were playing for the draw the entire game.

Your opponent did the same thing, and DIDNT leave any units at his objective, GIVING you the draw.

PLAY THE OBJECTIVE, or ALL YOU DO will draw

I think you may have missed the part when I was sitting right by my objective all game, that's not forgetting about the objective at all.

If you do not like my Purifier reports and think what I do is 'slowed' then do not read them. I purposely put in the title of the post what type of lists are in use so would be haters do not post troll comments.

As for a bad list, no I totally disagree. The list is shooty, it can handle vehicles, it can handle hordes how is that a bad list? The only the problem the list has is it's slow, and like I said to someone else, when someone is coming towards me I am not going to move out towards them like a dumbass.

I guess you also missed the part where I sent Crowe packing towards his objective? I know it was a long shot, though another turn and Crowe would have made it. That's not exactly not doing anything as you said...

No, Shaun at first didn't leave any units on his objective and brought them all down to me. Though he doubled back and got his, which made the draw. If he didn't leave any units on his objective and didn't double back, then that would have been a win for me.

Not sure why you're getting a vein popping really....you need to chill out dude and stop keyboard bashing

calypso2ts wrote:I was amazed that the SW player did not pull out the win in this one - by the end of the report with the enemy objective contested I sort of assumed that he must have his objective in hand...then come to see he moved all his scoring units away from it!

A strategy I have used in CnC is to advance with everything, but as soon as a unit is blown out of their vehicle (or it becomes immobile) I start moving back towards my own obejctive with that unit (rather than be left behind and vulnerable).

Also, given the terrain layout and placement of the buildings, I am surprised that the SW player did not advance across your right Flank using the large building there as cover for the TWC. From there you can charge almost on top of the objective.

Similarly for Long Fang deployment, they do not need to shoot into your deployment zone, they just need to have clear lines of fire to halt your advance. This could have kept them out of LoS of the dreads, while smashing vehicles as they tried to make it past midfield.

I thought Shaun probably would have got the win with that Wolf Lord. If the game would have ended turn 5 then he would have got the win no doubt about it. I was also quite surprised that he moved away from his objective, when the single Grey Hunter was falling back I mentioned to him about the objective.

I think I perhaps need to adapt my tactics. In this game (and others) it would just be two forces running forward and then clashing in the centre, then units break out and get the objective. In other lists I either have a dedicated objective holding unit i.e Scouts or send a unit back like you do also, just in this case there's no point moving forward closer to the enemy when my guns can blow him to bits as he comes towards me. It's catch 22 really. In the past this has worked and I've had Rhinos move out and contest objectives, perhaps I should have done this on early turns. The problem with my Purifier list is it's not fast, I am tempted to add a small unit of Interceptors in there to contest objectives. I wouldn't mind sacrificing a Purifier unit for this.

The only unit he did bring down the right flank was the Wolf Lords, I would have probably brought the Thunderwolves down that flank and kept the Wolf Lords with them and later split the Wolf Lords. I think having Rhinos behind there would have took him the long way around, though would have brought him some cover for several turns. Decisions, decisions...

The Long Fangs had no other placement. Wherever they could see I could see them. Plus shooting across the table, like they can is going to halt any advance before it gets started.

Thanks for the comment

this is like the 3rd C&C Game where you didnt make an attempt to capture your opponents objective, that isnt good.

I think maybe a ten man strike squad that you can deep strike in would be good, even better if you squeezes a captain in with psychic communion. Then you have 10 durable troops that you can delay or advance in reserves and can go for the objective.

or not ....

Thanks for the report, mercer!

Question about this:
Assault; Crowe charges the Grey Hunters and casts hammerhand, he uses sword storm and kills three Grey Hunters. Grey Hunters fail to wound Crowe and lose combat, they are caught by sweeping advance and lose another two Marines thanks to fearless wounds, the single Grey Hunter falls back while Crowe consolidates 1".

How did the GH fall back if he got caught in the sweep? That locks him in and makes him take fearless wounds, doesn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or was that talking about a different squad?

I was wondering that too and assumed it was just poorly written or poorly interpreted by me.

Mercer May
I strongly suggest you take 1 Ven Dread down to a Normal Dread (Ven is not worth 60pts)

Take all Puri squads down to a single hammer and 2 halberds (no master craft)

Replace a single Puri Squad + rhino with a 10 Man GKSS squad, 2 Psi cannons, 1 Hammer, Psi ammo and rhino.

this gives your static list a perfect deep strike component to take objectives, gives you warp quake and more scoring bodies. It has exactly the same psi cannons and rhinos, but with more net fire power in the form of str 5 storm bolters. And leaves you 15pts to play with...

I'd say a ten man interceptor squad would do better than 10 strikes and a rhino (though their rhino could be used by Crowe which is no bad thing). Granted they can't score but they can contest and that's often all that's needed in C&C. Being vastly more mobile than strikes they have more options as to where they come on and it's not necessary to Deep Strike them either.

Personally (and actually mathematically too where they are marginally better in terms of - combined - durability and firepower over 5 turns than an ordinary dreadnought is point for point) I find the venerable is worth his points but I do think it is worth considering dropping one venerable to ordinary to experiment with either interceptors or deep striking strikes

Blood I agree with you. Interceptors might be the way to go. I just wanted to show the "net advantage" of my plan by configuring it in a way that shows how Mercer would lose nothing from his current setup (in terms of armor and fire power) and gain in terms of objective scoring/contesting and general flexability.

Smitty0305 wrote:this is like the 3rd C&C Game where you didnt make an attempt to capture your opponents objective, that isnt good.

I've just checked, the last c&c games were Necrons vs Tau, which I went for the objective a bit late, though got there in the end with Wraiths. Another was G.K vs S.W, I can't remember what happened in that one, though no doubt I stayed static. And the last was G.K vs Deathwing, which didn't get to finish the game :( . I think perhaps I should change my tactics and move out, after all the units can fire 4 x s7 shots when moving, which isn't to be snuffed at. If not, a cheap mobile unit would be nice i.e Interceptors.

Red Corsair wrote:I think maybe a ten man strike squad that you can deep strike in would be good, even better if you squeezes a captain in with psychic communion. Then you have 10 durable troops that you can delay or advance in reserves and can go for the objective.

or not ....

I would probably go Interceptors I think, the shunt move is handy. I'm not sure yet, Strikes would be cheaper, though I am not a fan of derp strike.

pretre wrote:Thanks for the report, mercer!

Question about this:
Assault; Crowe charges the Grey Hunters and casts hammerhand, he uses sword storm and kills three Grey Hunters. Grey Hunters fail to wound Crowe and lose combat, they are caught by sweeping advance and lose another two Marines thanks to fearless wounds, the single Grey Hunter falls back while Crowe consolidates 1".

How did the GH fall back if he got caught in the sweep? That locks him in and makes him take fearless wounds, doesn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or was that talking about a different squad?

My mistake, dude, good spotting, internet cookie for you.

blackjack wrote:Mercer May
I strongly suggest you take 1 Ven Dread down to a Normal Dread (Ven is not worth 60pts)

Take all Puri squads down to a single hammer and 2 halberds (no master craft)

Replace a single Puri Squad + rhino with a 10 Man GKSS squad, 2 Psi cannons, 1 Hammer, Psi ammo and rhino.

this gives your static list a perfect deep strike component to take objectives, gives you warp quake and more scoring bodies. It has exactly the same psi cannons and rhinos, but with more net fire power in the form of str 5 storm bolters. And leaves you 15pts to play with...

I'd probably keep the Venerables tbh mate. At one point in the past I would agree with you, but the Venerables hit on a 2+ and can be pretty tough to take down.

I don't think Strike Squad would solve my problem. It's mobility I am after, which Interceptors I think would be wicked. The additional numbers of Strike Marines would do the exact same thing as a smaller unit of Purifiers would, and that's sit on a objective and shoot. Derp strike isn't really a option, something I am personally not a fan of. If anything I think I would go Interceptors. All food for thought though

Blood and Slaughter wrote:I'd say a ten man interceptor squad would do better than 10 strikes and a rhino (though their rhino could be used by Crowe which is no bad thing). Granted they can't score but they can contest and that's often all that's needed in C&C. Being vastly more mobile than strikes they have more options as to where they come on and it's not necessary to Deep Strike them either.

Personally (and actually mathematically too where they are marginally better in terms of - combined - durability and firepower over 5 turns than an ordinary dreadnought is point for point) I find the venerable is worth his points but I do think it is worth considering dropping one venerable to ordinary to experiment with either interceptors or deep striking strikes

I have to agree, dude, Interceptors are the way forward. Strikes would work like Purifiers, just bigger unit. A fast, contesting unit is what I need.

blackjack wrote:Blood I agree with you. Interceptors might be the way to go. I just wanted to show the "net advantage" of my plan by configuring it in a way that shows how Mercer would lose nothing from his current setup (in terms of armor and fire power) and gain in terms of objective scoring/contesting and general flexability.

Appreciate it, dude

One quick thing. If you go interceptors do not skimp on psi ammo. Interceptors get great side and rear shots, STR 5 against av10/11 is gold in volume. You will have to take a ven down to normal and cut alot of bling from your puri squads to make the interceptors fit however...

Yes, psybolts are very useful on Interceptor squads. In an objective game I'd combat squad the unit into a two psycannon squad and an cannonless squad,I think.

I GOT AN INTERNET COOKIE!!!

Okay, I'm good now.

The other report I was refering to was when you played against DA terminator list and you didnt make any effort to go for his objective.

In my opinion if you go for your opponents objective with SOMETHING, you have a much larger chance of winning. When you have a much larger chance of winning, you do better in tournaments, your considered a better player, and you have more exciting batreps.

Some of my observations:


- I find purifiers usually play much better when they're moving (advancing), especially in objectives-based games.

- Every army needs a "grot squad". SW needs a 5-man GH unit in razorback to sit on an objective and shoot. Purifiers need a 5-man strike squad to sit on an objective and give their ride to Crowe.

- IMO, rhinos don't need to be protecting his deathstar. His deathstar should be running right alongside his rhinos and not behind.

- I usually try to take out the opponent's mobility first in an objectives games. Killing LF's is just not very efficient, at least not until after you've de-meched your opponent. But your opponent made it easier for you (target priority, that is) by putting his deathstar all the ways to the rear.

0305Smitty wrote:The other report I was refering to was when you played against DA terminator list and you didnt make any effort to go for his objective.

In my opinion if you go for your opponents objective with SOMETHING, you have a much larger chance of winning. When you have a much larger chance of winning, you do better in tournaments, your considered a better player, and you have more exciting batreps.

Whatever happened to your dakka account, Smitty?

blackjack wrote:One quick thing. If you go interceptors do not skimp on psi ammo. Interceptors get great side and rear shots, STR 5 against av10/11 is gold in volume. You will have to take a ven down to normal and cut alot of bling from your puri squads to make the interceptors fit however...

I'd only take psybolt ammo on a Interceptor squad if I had 10 dudes, though your point still stands about side and rear shots. Used to use them before with psybolt ammo and worked a treat .

Blood and Slaughter wrote:Yes, psybolts are very useful on Interceptor squads. In an objective game I'd combat squad the unit into a two psycannon squad and an cannonless squad,I think.

That's how I used to run them before and they worked like a charm

pretre wrote:I GOT AN INTERNET COOKIE!!!

Okay, I'm good now.

You're a boss

0305Smitty wrote:The other report I was refering to was when you played against DA terminator list and you didnt make any effort to go for his objective.

In my opinion if you go for your opponents objective with SOMETHING, you have a much larger chance of winning. When you have a much larger chance of winning, you do better in tournaments, your considered a better player, and you have more exciting batreps.

The battle report against the Deathwing ended on turn 4 due to injury. If I made any effort to get to his objective in earlier turns then I would be driving straight into a unit of Terminators and a Dreadnought with a multi melta. I do not fancy getting up close and personal against these units. At the end of turn 4 I had two operational Rhinos left, I could have easily bombed these out of my deployment zone 12" as there was only a single Terminator in front of me who was locked in combat and another two who I was told would have assaulted a Dreadnought. He had a unit of depleted Tactical Marines on his objective, which was about 24" away. I could have easily contested that objective turn 5 as I had a squad inside one of those Rhinos.

Thanks for the kind words about the bat reps.

jy2 wrote:Some of my observations:


- I find purifiers usually play much better when they're moving (advancing), especially in objectives-based games.

- Every army needs a "grot squad". SW needs a 5-man GH unit in razorback to sit on an objective and shoot. Purifiers need a 5-man strike squad to sit on an objective and give their ride to Crowe.

- IMO, rhinos don't need to be protecting his deathstar. His deathstar should be running right alongside his rhinos and not behind.

- I usually try to take out the opponent's mobility first in an objectives games. Killing LF's is just not very efficient, at least not until after you've de-meched your opponent. But your opponent made it easier for you (target priority, that is) by putting his deathstar all the ways to the rear.

I've done this before in objective games and worked well. 4 x s7 shots isn't to be snuffed at. In this game there's no point moving forward straight away or else I would be driving straight towards meltas and Thunderwolves and that wouldn't be too clever.

Grot squads are cool, though in a Crowe list a unit of Purifiers do exactly the same job as a Strike Squad, just they cost cheap, their ride can be given to Crowe also.

There's swings and roundabouts with Rhinos and Thunderwolves. In this case he deployment them almost touching the table edge, which isn't a good idea, though if you place them out in front then they are guranteed to be shot, though will make assault probably quicker. Or you place them behind and they probably won't get shot and may reach combat a turn later. In this case Shaun's deployment of the unit and forgetting to run them turn 1 didn't help, they could have been at least a good 8" closer to me. The only unit I run like this is Beastmasters and 9 times out of 10 I have them in assault by turn 2, unfortunately I cannot get cover for them as they can be seen under Venoms anyway.

Mobility is always the smart thing to start with in objective games along with target priority based upon threats. In this case I do not need to target Shaun's Rhinos straight away, he's coming towards me, if I shot at his Rhinos when they were further back then those units would be closer to his objective. Instead they got stranded mid field and a solo Grey Hunter who escaped the wrath of Crowe scurried back. Taking out the opponent's mobility will limit them coming to you, but allows them to setup in a more defensive position for when you reach the enemy lines.

Long Fangs, anything which can threaten my mech is taken care off first. I've got 4 turns to take care of mobilitiy and a immobilised result will do. If my Purifiers are blown out their tanks then they are vulnerable. I need my Rhinos to get to objectives, if Long Fangs have blown them up then I have less chances of getting to the enemy objective. As you said, objective games are about mobility and if I have none thanks to Long Fangs, then those Long Fangs are going to die first.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, guys, for all those who have made suggestions, I have listned for once . What do you think of this modified list?


Grey Knights 'Purifer Order' - 2,000 points

HQ

Castellan Crowe 150

Elite

Venerable Dreadnought 2 x twin-linked autocannon & psybolt ammo 195
Venerable Dreadnought 2 x twin-linked autocannon & psybolt ammo 195
Venerable Dreadnought 2 x twin-linked autocannon & psybolt ammo 195

Troops

5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino 2 x psycannons, 2 x nemesis halberds - Justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer 194
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino 2 x psycannons, 2 x nemesis halberds - Justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer 194
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino 2 x psycannons, 2 x nemesis halberds - Justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer 194
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino 2 x psycannons, 2 x nemesis halberds - Justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer 194
5 x Purifiers w/ Rhino 2 x psycannons, 2 x nemesis halberds - Justicar w/ master crafted nemesis daemon hammer 194
5 x Strike Squad w/ Rhino psycannon 150

Fast Attack

5 x Interceptors psycannon 140

Total: 1,995

Not really great IMO. you need a greater commitment to your objective grab unit. 10 guys (either gkss or intercptors) with Psi bolt ammo, a hammer *(preferable master craft) and 2 psi cannons. This gets you a credable objective grab/hold threat. 5 marines without sufficent support are meat.

I really do not understand your affection for ven dreads. I would drop all vens to normal, and up the interceptors to 10, with psi ammo a second psi cannon and a master hammer. Your dread firepower is nearly identical your objectice graber is now more than 2x as powerful and 2x as resiliant.

I don't need 10 guys to grab a objective. The Interceptors can hide away and then shunt out later. A objective holding unit only needs to be cheap. I only need something to contest, that's it. Doesn't matter how big or small it is, as long as it can zip out in the later turns and contest. Spending 300 points to get a contesting unit is a bit OTT and bad use of points. The only benefit would be combat squad and slightly helpful in seize ground, though I do not have a problem with that mission.

I've already explained about the Venerables in a nutshell . They hit on a 2+ so should be hitting all the time, they are more survivable thanks to venerable, though this doesn't help too much with melta, though melta has to get close. Three Venerables will survive a lot longer than three normal Dreadnoughts.

Hi mercer,

While venerable dreadnoughts are tougher to bring down than regular ones, the benefits of BS5 are negligible when taking twin-linked weapons. It's a totally valid preference, but you'd have a lot of points to work with by taking regular dreadnoughts

Also, IMO you're overestimating the effectiveness of using a single 5 man interceptor squad to capture or contest objectives. I think you'll find that strategy very unforgiving when things go wrong

And, personally, I would suggest adding a little flavor to break up the monotony of your list. It kinda seems like your list built itself once you picked Crowe. I'd add one of the more unused assassins or something like that

Cheers

I think ten interceptors would be better because combat squadded they give you two bites at contesting in Capture and Control or Seize Ground and not combat squadded for Annihilation they give only 1KP (as opposed to 3 for strike plus rhino plus interceptors in your modified list).

While I think 3 venerables is perfectly acceptable (crudely less turn one and two shooting, more turn four and five shooting than the equivalet points of ordinaries), I'd rather have more immediate firepower and run one venerable and three ordinary for roughly the same points.

3 ordinary dreadnoughts at 405 points are roughly equal in cost to 2 normal. Granted they do die faster, and as I say, venerables are actually a shade better value taking durability and firepower into consideration, but they really shine as close support with melta rather than long range shooters where the TL autocannon have a decent chance of scoring 4 hits with ordinaries anyway.

Granted it is an extra killpoint (but then you'd have saved three by taking 10 interceptors rather than 5, 5 strikes and a rhino...)

twin linked BS 5 = 97.4%, Twin linked BS 4 = 87.8%
Basically a 10% increase in firepower.

Increase in durability is harder to sort. Certianly much harder to wreck.destroy, certianly GK dreads are harder to meaningfully shake or stun. But weapon destroy and imobilised resluts are harder to avoid when the odds are the results will be as bad or worse if you reroll. So pure math says it is 3x as hard to wreck or explode a ven dread it is not 3x as hard to weapon destroy, imobilize and basically dismantle a ven dread. Lastly the abilty to ignore shaken/stunned assumes no enemy hood or warding stones. All this for a 44% increase in base price...

3 Ven dreads = 585
3 normals + 1 ven = 600pts

so for basically the same points you get +23% fire power vs a hard to define reduction in net durability (normals less durable than vens but you have 50% more of them).

I personally find it hard a hard swallow the pure ven build..

Excellent post Blackjack. High five!