Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So something just occurred to me. Is there a distinctive martial art/combatives system that the SM use? Or are they just straight brawling? I call upon thee, denizens of Dakka! Provide me the forbidden fluff that I seek!

TermiesInARaider wrote:So something just occurred to me. Is there a distinctive martial art/combatives system that the SM use? Or are they just straight brawling? I call upon thee, denizens of Dakka! Provide me the forbidden fluff that I seek!

I'm not sure what the name for it is, but I think its just the generic form of h2h training they give to modern soldiers now-a-days.
If you want, you could have a look at the game Space Marine. It's a fairly decent portrayal of how a marine fights in close combat.

Definitely Krav Maga

Archonate wrote:Definitely Krav Maga

Extremely unlikely. 40,000 years into the future, I'm pretty sure genetically engineered super-warriors would have access to something better. Nevermind the fact that Krav Maga has no provisions for things such as, say, powerfists? Chainswords? Lightning Claws?

I'm sorry. It's just silly to say something like that.

About as silly as your question. What, do you expect Space Marines to practice Tai Chi or something?

I would say what ever it is, it is something that evolved from a military form, but has more then likely changed over the years to better fit a SM's body.

Amaya wrote:About as silly as your question. What, do you expect Space Marines to practice Tai Chi or something?

Obviously not. I was simply asking if there's any mention, be it in the Black Library books, or anywhere else, of any structured fighting system. You don't assume they just hand the Marines a chainsword and say 'swing it', do you?

No, I don't even think there is a thought out fighting style for the Marines.

I'm pretty sure they just hit their opponent into space.

Well if they have H2H training, it is going to incorperate many of the higher forms of martial art on earth today. For instance, a marine who favors a two handed sword, would most likely find himself training in something similar to how no-dai-chi samurai trained, or even sword fighting styles found in fuedal knight training. If he wielded a single handed weapon, again it would reflect training practices found on earth today. Such as fencing perhaps? And so on and so forth. And I would imagine a marines training would always take advantage of their superhuman strength and reflexes

As well, it probably varies from chapter to chapter and so on. It would also focus on the preferred weapon on the individual or the chapter.
Even now, various militaries have wildly different cc styles, ethos and training.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:Well if they have H2H training, it is going to incorperate many of the higher forms of martial art on earth today. For instance, a marine who favors a two handed sword, would most likely find himself training in something similar to how no-dai-chi samurai trained, or even sword fighting styles found in fuedal knight training. If he wielded a single handed weapon, again it would reflect training practices found on earth today. Such as fencing perhaps? And so on and so forth. And I would imagine a marines training would always take advantage of their superhuman strength and reflexes

There we go, something productive!

I like the parallels you're drawing, but I think most modern fencing styles are too dainty to take advantage of SM augmentations. When I think of your standard chainsword, I generally think of a heavy saber. I'm reminded of the civil war, when officers would take a saber and a revolver into battle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lightcavalier wrote:As well, it probably varies from chapter to chapter and so on. It would also focus on the preferred weapon on the individual or the chapter.
Even now, various militaries have wildly different cc styles, ethos and training.

Well, with different weapons, different techniques need to be applied, that's true, but within compliance with the Codex Astartes, I'd imagine there'd be relatively little variancy in overall combat doctrine. The Crimson Fists are going to be using their chainswords the same way that the Sons of Orar are, I'd imagine. Just my two cents, but I'd imagine that'd be something the codex would cover.

My guess is each chapter has its own thing, UM might have something like Greco-Roman wrestling, DA might have some fancy swordplay, White Scars might be more like eastern martial arts.

On a realistic standpoint I am sure there is a form of martial arts. Not all SM have power swords, fists etc... They have to be trained with out them first then get additional training how to use their swords, fists or what ever.

What if a SM becomes unarmed? His martial arts skills that he likely knows will come into play then.

usmcmidn wrote:On a realistic standpoint I am sure there is a form of martial arts. Not all SM have power swords, fists etc... They have to be trained with out them first then get additional training how to use their swords, fists or what ever.

What if a SM becomes unarmed? His martial arts skills that he likely knows will come into play then.

This. That's what I'm talking about when I say combatives. The motto of the martial arts system in the US Marine Corps is One Mind, Any Weapon. A combatives system is a unified fighting method that can apply force ranging from empty-handed combat, knives, sticks, guns, ect.

usmcmidn wrote:On a realistic standpoint I am sure there is a form of martial arts. Not all SM have power swords, fists etc... They have to be trained with out them first then get additional training how to use their swords, fists or what ever.

What if a SM becomes unarmed? His martial arts skills that he likely knows will come into play then.

This.
This is precisely when their Krav Maga skills come into play.

Probably whatever style this is;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjnMu8u9nE

Anfauglir wrote:Probably whatever style this is;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjnMu8u9nE

Batman? That would be all of them.

TermiesInARaider wrote:Batman? That would be all of them.

Pretty much. I wouldn't be surprised if the Marine's h2h style was an amalgamisation of every style that ever evolved out of humanity... ever.

Did knights in the middle ages have a standard fighting style? Because marines would most likely train in a technique to go up against armour and power armour.

Space Marine Hand to Hand combat is smash it/cut it/blow it up until it dies.

A melee fighting style in 40k would probably be something we could predict however it probably doesn't exist right now...

Amaya wrote:No, I don't even think there is a thought out fighting style for the Marines.

I'd imagine it's something similar to what the US Marines developed but with less compliance/submission techniques, lol. A fighting style designed to be performed at close quarters, while wearing bulky armor, taking advantage of the weight, reach, and bulk of the Marine, and incorporating their various weaponry.

I mean, it's not going to be especially crazy or sophisticated. Just like with warfare and the Codex Astartes, the basics won't have changed too much. It will just have techniques for the more unique weapons the Marines use (Power weapons, fists, chainswords, pistols, etc).

Actually I think the Krav Maga's pretty spot on...

Not exactly it but, similar to.

Unless a SM's trying to toy with their opponents (more a CSM thing), they're goal is to basically kill quickly and efficiently with whatever they have on hand, aiming for soft points and aiming for places that'll kill quickly.

That's my perspective for the general SM populace... but hey, different planets different styles right?

I think most marine fighting would be very heavy handed, they are 8 foot tall monsters in power armour, they won't hop around punching you, they will probably grab your arm with their super human reflexes when you try to punch them, bend it until you hear a horrifying crack or pop, punch you in the face and curb stomp your head in case you are alive.

Buttons wrote:I think most marine fighting would be very heavy handed, they are 8 foot tall monsters in power armour, they won't hop around punching you, they will probably grab your arm with their super human reflexes when you try to punch them, bend it until you hear a horrifying crack or pop, punch you in the face and curb stomp your head in case you are alive.

Spot on. The power armor that enhances their strenght also limits what their limbs can do - they're not going to pull off fancy Van Damme jump kicks (although jump infantry might land on you). They'll be using their weight and sheer strength.

I'd imagine that each chapter would have its own unique martial art.

Imperial Fists and their decendents practice a unique style that uses a short sword as its focus.


Their practices certaintly won't resemble anything we have today. Given 38,000 years of change nothing's going to be much like it used to be. In the last century there have been dozens and dozens of different versions of the various martial arts pop up.

Marine styles will probably resemble MMA more then a specific artistic form. It is supposed to be practical afterall. Judo isn't going to do all that much for you in an all out brawl with various stabby and thumpy things whirling around, having experience with a folding chair will.

purplefood wrote:A melee fighting style in 40k would probably be something we could predict however it probably doesn't exist right now...

Eldar Aspect Warriors seem to have a pretty refined but brutal hand-to-hand combat method complete with named techniques and stances and so on. Path of the Warrior goes into them. Can penetrate peoples skulls with your fingers, rip out someones heart, snap necks with your feet, all the fun stuff.

The full and complete Space Marine Hand-to-Hand Training Manual.

1. Do you have a close combat weapon such as a chainsword, power claws, power fist?
Yes: Use it to sword/klaw/fist the enemy into a bloody mist.
No: Proceed to step 2.

2. You have a bolter, then.
Yes: Use it to shoot your enemies until they're within arms reach.

3. Are they within arms reach?
Yes: Punch them in the face with your off hand while shooting from the hip with your bolter.

4. Are they dead?
Yes: Good job! Go kill more xenos and heretics for the Emprah!
No: Continue punching until they are!

Legions had different styles of combat. Some emphasized minimalist precision (Ultras), others used knightly traditions (Imperial Fists, Dark Angels), others used the savage warrior culture of their recruiting planet (White Scars, Space Wolves), others were brutal psychopaths (Night Lords, World Eaters), and some were ninjas (Raven Guard).