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Had a game against a SW buddy, and he ended up in assault with my Draigostar. Thunderwolf calvary, Grey Hunters, and a Rune Priest were involved.

In assault, I used my brotherhood banner to automatically activate force weapons to take out his TWC. He used his Rune Priest to attempt to cancel it.

Is this legal?

Yes. Banner rules say "the unit will automatically pass its Psychic test to 'activate' its force weapons." so Rune Priest can still cancel it.

It says that they automatically pass their psychic test to activate the weapons. This alludes that they are still casting the psychic ability, and as such yes it can be negated.. Also, to further make ya sorry a bit unfortunately you still roll your 2d6 as you can still suffer perils, the result just doesn't matter in regards to whether it gets cast or not.

In short, it works completely normally, roll the 2d6 and see if you suffer perils, assume you passed your leadership test and the move goes off, ways to negate the move are done normally.

DrexMartell wrote:It says that they automatically pass their psychic test to activate the weapons. This alludes that they are still casting the psychic ability, and as such yes it can be negated.. Also, to further make ya sorry a bit unfortunately you still roll your 2d6 as you can still suffer perils, the result just doesn't matter in regards to whether it gets cast or not.

In short, it works completely normally, roll the 2d6 and see if you suffer perils, assume you passed your leadership test and the move goes off, ways to negate the move are done normally.

Makes sense, that is how we played it. Rune Priests are nasty.


"you still roll your 2d6 as you can still suffer perils"

Was this FAQ'd? That doesn't seem right to me.

I thought any psychic test that auto passed couldn't be hooded, like Eldar Warlocks?
Surely the same applies here?

marv335 wrote:I thought any psychic test that auto passed couldn't be hooded, like Eldar Warlocks?
Surely the same applies here?

Warlocks do not require a psychic test. That is quite different from automatically passing a psychic test.

So yes, a Psychic Hood works just fine against a Brotherhood Banner.

marv335 wrote:I thought any psychic test that auto passed couldn't be hooded, like Eldar Warlocks?
Surely the same applies here?

Warlocks don't autopass, there's no mention of a test at all. Space Wolves could probably still pull off the Wolf Tail Talisman though.

But as long as there's a test the psychic hood is allowed - it can be used once you pass the test.

DrexMartell wrote:It says that they automatically pass their psychic test to activate the weapons. This alludes that they are still casting the psychic ability, and as such yes it can be negated.. Also, to further make ya sorry a bit unfortunately you still roll your 2d6 as you can still suffer perils, the result just doesn't matter in regards to whether it gets cast or not.

In short, it works completely normally, roll the 2d6 and see if you suffer perils, assume you passed your leadership test and the move goes off, ways to negate the move are done normally.

No. You don't have to still roll the dice and possibly perils. It is automatically passed. Space marines with Calgar on the field don't have to roll their Ld and then choose what to do, they just get to choose.

motyak wrote:

DrexMartell wrote:It says that they automatically pass their psychic test to activate the weapons. This alludes that they are still casting the psychic ability, and as such yes it can be negated.. Also, to further make ya sorry a bit unfortunately you still roll your 2d6 as you can still suffer perils, the result just doesn't matter in regards to whether it gets cast or not.

In short, it works completely normally, roll the 2d6 and see if you suffer perils, assume you passed your leadership test and the move goes off, ways to negate the move are done normally.

No. You don't have to still roll the dice and possibly perils. It is automatically passed. Space marines with Calgar on the field don't have to roll their Ld and then choose what to do, they just get to choose.

The two situations aren't exactly comparable given that nothing is determined by a leadership test other than whether you pass it or not, if you want to find another example to bring into the debate, it should at least match psychic tests in that certain results should apply additional affects, as well as determining pass or fail.

Well since you can pass a psychic test and suffer perils at the same time I don't see why you should not have to roll the dice. I would want to see the words of the rule to know for sure but it doesn't seem out of place.

well you might have to roll for perils, as there is the double 1's it is PoTW but still goes off

So do you guys think they can perils on a 6,6 too?

Its not quite the same, but one of the guard rules re: orders allows them to automatically issue another order, and it says there is no need to test (because if you did test, you could roll incompetent leadership or inspired leadership). That is the closest thing I could find so far (only looked in the guard book so far).

They automatically pass the test. No dice would be rolled and no perils would be possible.

yakface, no disrespect but why other then your opinion is that stance true?

liturgies of blood wrote:yakface, no disrespect but why other then your opinion is that stance true?

Because if you actually took the test, you could roll an 11 or 12, and that is not Auto-Passing it.

That is why you do not roll the dice.

its pretty cut and dry im afraid

"if the result of a psychic test is either a double 1 etc" page 50

the test was taken and no double 1 or 6 occured as it was auto passed, and no dice are rolled

The problem is that it is possible to pass a test (automatically or otherwise) and still Perils if you are a psyker.

lets put it this way, im fearless, do you expect me to roll a double 1 for reckless heroism, even though i auto pass the morale check? what about pinning, i auto pass that too, would you like me to roll the dice anyway?

this is essentially what it bogs down to, what MAY happen has no bearing on what HAS happened, the test has been taken and it was automatically passed and since no dice are used at all, there is no way to perils

along the same vein, do you expect Typhus to have to roll to see if he perils too? and Warlocks? there useing a psy power with no dice being rolled, but its still technically a psy test so they should have to roll "just in case"

bag of worms this is

Unit1126PLL wrote:The problem is that it is possible to pass a test (automatically or otherwise) and still Perils if you are a psyker.

But there is no support for needing to roll despite something being automatic. None that I can think of anyway.

Because the rolling has two outcomes, it decides if you pass the test to use the power but it also decides if you have to take a perils of the warp.
The power says you auto pass, it doesn't say that you don't have to take the psychic test.

If you rolled 11 then you would not suffer a perils but still auto pass. Same as if you rolled a 3-10.

Ok lit, how about a roll of 6,6? is that perils and auto pass too?

Yes.

Formosa wrote:lets put it this way, im fearless, do you expect me to roll a double 1 for reckless heroism, even though i auto pass the morale check? what about pinning, i auto pass that too, would you like me to roll the dice anyway?

this is essentially what it bogs down to, what MAY happen has no bearing on what HAS happened, the test has been taken and it was automatically passed and since no dice are used at all, there is no way to perils

along the same vein, do you expect Typhus to have to roll to see if he perils too? and Warlocks? there useing a psy power with no dice being rolled, but its still technically a psy test so they should have to roll "just in case"

bag of worms this is

I have to agree with this guy...it makes no sense to roll when it is auto passed

Ah but a moral check has only two outcomes pass/fail, where as a psychic test has 4 possible outcomes. Pass, fail, pass and perils and fail and perils.

I understand the arugement but I think I find that a power that doesn't take a test is not the same as auto pass. An always on power has been different to a power that requires a test since 3rd ed.

A psychic test is the act of rolling the dice to see if you pass or fail...that is the test.

Now, a by product of taking that test is that you can suffer an additional penalty (perils of the warp), however if you automatically pass the test that by definition means you don't have to roll the dice, because rolling the dice is taking the test.

So by automatically passing the test it means that no dice to be rolled, which means no chance of rolling double sixes or ones, which means no chance of getting a perils of the warp attack in that manner.


Or to put things more bluntly, let's examine how this would work in the game.


As a Grey Knight player I say that I'm using the Brotherhood Banner to automatically pass the psychic test to activate my NFWs.

You say: But what about if you roll double ones or sixes on the test?

And I reply: I've already automatically passed the test.

You reply: But, but you should still roll!

I reply: I don't need to, I've automatically passed the test already!


So in short, the fact that they automatically pass the test absolves the player from having to roll any dice for the psychic test as he's already passed the test without rolling any dice.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

liturgies of blood wrote:Ah but a moral check has only two outcomes pass/fail, where as a psychic test has 4 possible outcomes. Pass, fail, pass and perils and fail and perils.

I understand the arugement but I think I find that a power that doesn't take a test is not the same as auto pass. An always on power has been different to a power that requires a test since 3rd ed.

That is not correct.

A psychic test has two outcomes: Pass or Fail.

However as part of taking that test it is possible to trigger a side effect of perils of the warp.

If you automatically pass the test you don't need to roll the dice and therefore that side effect cannot be triggered.

liturgies, just out of curiosity (hypothetical scenario)
I have an ability that makes it so you automatically fail 1 shooting attack, of my choice. I choose your Plasma Gunner. Would you roll to hit, to see if you Get Hot?

I understand your point but I don't see why it absolves the perils tests. It absolves you from the worry of rolling an 11 but not a 2 or 12.

I think the way you are viewing psychic tests is the issue here. Its not a perils test. It is a psychic test which can result in perils...A psychic test you are absolved from taking by automatically passing it.

I may be wrong, I am willing to admit that but the brb requres a roll for perils. Even if the power auto passes that doesn't negate the perils, to ask a very Irish question are you an auto pass on a two or an auto pass on something else.

I see this sort of thing as similar to the plasma cannon rolling a seperate dice for it gets hot.

liturgies of blood wrote:I may be wrong, I am willing to admit that but the brb requres a roll for perils. Even if the power auto passes that doesn't negate the perils, to ask a very Irish question are you an auto pass on a two or an auto pass on something else.

I see this sort of thing as similar to the plasma cannon rolling a seperate dice for it gets hot.

No. There is no roll for perils. This is where you seem to be getting crossed up.

Perils can occur if a psychic test roll results in double ones or sixes. So you keep saying that the rules require that there be a chance for perils to happen when the rules don't say that!

They just say that if double ones or sixes occur when taking a psychic test THEN perils occurs. If you don't need to roll a psychic test (because its automatically passed) then you have no chance of rolling double ones or sixes and therefore no way of causing a perils of the warp attack in that way.