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No not fear of russians, but rather the abject fear some players have of the Leman Russ battle tank

I like tanks, a lot. With the new guard codex allowing me to field massive numbers of russes I love to capitalize on that. 4 russes is almost standard for me, 5-6 If I'm feeling particularly tanky. However when I do this some players call cheese on me, and I've even been refused games before. The russ isn't that scary guys, its not invincible, its merely an element in a well orchestrated plan, so why do some people have such and abject fear of them? And have you encountered russophobia before at your club?

Many Armies capitalize on strong hand to hand, and they feel they don't have what it takes to deal with mass AV14. It does not take a specialized list to deal with the Russwall , but any list that is not well rounded, or specialized away from antitank can have a hard time if they don't think about the tactics needed to survive.

Insurgency Walker wrote:Many Armies capitalize on strong hand to hand, and they feel they don't have what it takes to deal with mass AV14. It does not take a specialized list to deal with the Russwall , but any list that is not well rounded, or specialized away from antitank can have a hard time if they don't think about the tactics needed to survive.

This. And the battle-cannon's template, a lot of armies don't like them for a few reasons. Nids and green-tide orks don't like them because they help neutralize the numbers advantage. MEQ tend not to like them, at least from what I've seen, because they can't afford much redundancy, and having an entire squad targeted in one go is a scary thing. My two cents.

LR spamming isn't invincible, but armies like Orks/Nids are going to have huge problems with it. It's one of the many balance issues of the game.

Harriticus wrote:LR spamming isn't invincible, but armies like Orks/Nids are going to have huge problems with it. It's one of the many balance issues of the game.

I wouldn't say it's much of a balance issue because any Ork mob will have a powerklaw with can just mash a tank squadron in one go. Nids will have a harder time since they don't really have a means to get to the tanks in the first place like Orks have trukks, bikes, and so on.

at my store when I was starting out and struggling, my number 1 piece of advice every player would give me was "get more leman russes". This wasnt just the IG players either. Space marines, DE, chaos demons, you name it, they all said to buy more leman russes. Every single time I'd hear the same thing "the only thing I fear are lots of russes. get more of those and you'll do a lot better."

One of our top IG players fields 6 in his 1850 list, so i imagine thats where this thought process come from, but I've seen him in action action and can safely say anyone would fear leman russes after a game with him .

Actually, the squadron rules really weaken the Russ. Bringing more than three is hurting you more than it is the opponent. Each vehicle in the squadron is forced to shoot at the same target, and your opponent is presented with only one target, while having the ability to damage multiple vehicle. This become even more pronounced in CC, where that Ork warboss will handily destroy an entire squadron in one turn.

It is far from cheesy and quite easy to dismantle. A single unit that manage to get in CC will effectively eliminate an entire squadron.

You brought a unit that somebody didn't like and they called it cheese? Shocked! I'm shocked, sir!

I've gotten russes called cheesy before, but this is in the context of everything I've ever brought (other than ogryn) being called cheesy.

Yes, they call my russes cheese as they put down their draigowing list. Just smile and nod...

EmilCrane wrote:No not fear of russians, but rather the abject fear some players have of the Leman Russ battle tank

I like tanks, a lot. With the new guard codex allowing me to field massive numbers of russes I love to capitalize on that. 4 russes is almost standard for me, 5-6 If I'm feeling particularly tanky. However when I do this some players call cheese on me, and I've even been refused games before. The russ isn't that scary guys, its not invincible, its merely an element in a well orchestrated plan, so why do some people have such and abject fear of them? And have you encountered russophobia before at your club?

The main thing about Leman Russ spam is that if you do not prepare for it, it will wreck face. In a 500 points game, most people don't expect AV14 to show up in any capacity, so they typically don't bring in that much anti-tank (not anti vehicle, anti-tank) to the game. So when a guard player plops down 2 leman russes, unless the other guy's list is hard tailored for anti-av14, he's not going to be doing much of anything to the LRBTs as they blow things up left and right. Or they could bring in one LRD, have more points to spend on other things, and have enough raw, balls out firepower to obliterate virtually anything you'd find in a 500 points game.

In a large game, I've been on the receiving end of a 9 LRD charge, it was *not* pretty. There was simply too much AV14 for my Tfexes to handle and with 9 S10 Ap2 blast templates they pretty much killed everything that wasn't T6 in one go. Granted I rolled spectacularly bad for my Rupture cannons and the Tyranids are notoriously bad at dealing with AV14 from any reasonable distance, but it can show how in large enough formations, a leman russ assault can smash apart pretty much any defence short of broadside or lascannon devastator/long fang/heavy weapons team spam if you want to stop them at range. For mech armies you can use disembarking powerklaws/fists and meltas and simply ramming the damned things. But the nids? Bite the pillow, it's not going to be pleasant.

How are you going to ram a leman russ and kill it with a rhino? At bes you'd get, what, a S6 hit? (move 12" gives S4, tank makes it S5, av11 makes it S6) so that wouldnt be able to even glance. Are you talking about some other vehicle?

I don't have my book with me but aren't most LR rear AV 10? with a couple of them being 11? Melee armies shouldn't be having issues with these things. And in squadrons? Dear lord, units with lots of attacks and hitting at str 4 can glance you to death in a single turn.

LR spam is fine by me. I prefer that over a lot of other guard lists for my demons. And my other more balanced armies (sisters, crons, templars) have never had an issue destroying a few leman russes

MrMoustaffa wrote:How are you going to ram a leman russ and kill it with a rhino? At bes you'd get, what, a S6 hit? (move 12" gives S4, tank makes it S5, av11 makes it S6) so that wouldnt be able to even glance. Are you talking about some other vehicle?

Play DE or BA. Proton Torpedo away!

Oh lord. Leman Russes are *NOT* overpowered.

Since I was 12, I've been building an playing an entire Imperial Armored Regiment, the 1st CAR and I've seen four different versions of the Armored Company list, and the ups and downs of all of them.

The current Leman Russ is at its weakest it's ever been. Melee attacks hitting the rear armor, combined with the intensity of shaken and stunned on Battle Tanks vs. their relative ineffectiveness against transports, has dropped the Leman Russ' competitiveness significantly.

A single, regular Guardsman, in melee, is capable of blowing the gun off / immobilizing / neutering for a turn a Leman Russ. The Leman Russ does have a couple of advantages however:

1) It is (almost) indestructible with long-ranged weapons, the best of which only have a 33% chance to penetrate.
2) It possesses significant firepower advantages over every other Battle Tank in the game.

If you maximize those advantages with tactics, it seems overpowered. But it is not that the unit lacks a weakness or that the unit is low-costed. It is good tactical sense.

Easily grasped tactics != overpowered.

Unit1126PLL wrote:Oh lord. Leman Russes are *NOT* overpowered.

Since I was 12, I've been building an playing an entire Imperial Armored Regiment, the 1st CAR and I've seen four different versions of the Armored Company list, and the ups and downs of all of them.

The current Leman Russ is at its weakest it's ever been. Melee attacks hitting the rear armor, combined with the intensity of shaken and stunned on Battle Tanks vs. their relative ineffectiveness against transports, has dropped the Leman Russ' competitiveness significantly.

A single, regular Guardsman, in melee, is capable of blowing the gun off / immobilizing / neutering for a turn a Leman Russ. The Leman Russ does have a couple of advantages however:

1) It is (almost) indestructible with long-ranged weapons, the best of which only have a 33% chance to penetrate.
2) It possesses significant firepower advantages over every other Battle Tank in the game.

If you maximize those advantages with tactics, it seems overpowered. But it is not that the unit lacks a weakness or that the unit is low-costed. It is good tactical sense.

Easily grasped tactics != overpowered.

This. Rarely do experienced players call cheese, because they're the ones who are able to think on their feet and deliver a tactic that can counter the unexpected. Now, we can debate if a unit being 'tricky' for less experienced players counts as being overpowered, but that is another discussion.

Mortal Kombat comes to mind. Easily one of the most popular characters among new players was Cyrax, for a reason I cannot remember. What I do remember is that people would often refuse to play against someone using Cyrax, because the general consensus was, for a newbie, another newbie playing with Cyrax was almost as hard to beat as someone who was actually good at the game. Of course, that never came up in games between people who had actual skill, since they all knew their favored characters strengths, weaknesses, and how to improvise to level the playing field.

So EmilCrane do you feel you have enough ammo to tell the Russophobes to man up and learn to enjoy IG pie?

I have around 55-60 Leman Russ's would need to go back and count all the damn things and what type they are but I got a ton for cheap from a bunch of friends who don't play anymore.

I love em' cheap, hard as nails, and pack a great punch.

Do they know that Russ Tanks are rear armor 10 (11 if you include the Demolisher). Just charge it with something sinister, like an MC, or Scarabs...

KplKeegan wrote:Do they know that Russ Tanks are rear armor 10 (11 if you include the Demolisher). Just charge it with something sinister, like an MC, or Scarabs...

Or a guardsman with a frag grenade.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:Do they know that Russ Tanks are rear armor 10 (11 if you include the Demolisher). Just charge it with something sinister, like an MC, or Scarabs...

Or a guardsman with a frag grenade.

This. LRBTs are a fairly easy counter. Newer players, however, see five or six tanks on the board and immediately go ZOMFG LIMBURGER CHEESE!

Honestly, I would PREFER you to field russes more. I generally field 4-5 predators per game myself...

Russes are only good against infantry, and most mechanized lists take very small amounts of infantry. If you pop one of my razorbacks... big deal. You can shoot at 5 assault marines in cover. If you manage a direct hit and hit all 5, I can just go to ground for a 3+ cover save anyway.

Even nids shouldn't have a problem with russes... a good nid player will screen his big beasties with a bunch of smaller ones, so he will get cover. Monstrous creatures shouldn't fear a russ, its no more dangerous than a krak missile..

thats if you can get close enough before being shot off the board

LRBT has 10 rear with only the executioner/punisher and Demolisher having 11 rear. 14 front and 13 side is universal between them.

the LR is a mean machine and if protected against melee troops and allowed to fire into the enemy.... well its a blood bath to say the least.

I've found, (like those above have said), If the enemy doesn't pack anti tank weapons or keep them alive long enough to deal with the Russ, the Russ will be a deciding factor and bring victory.

Space marines fall to the battle cannons blasts, no less to Executioner plasma blasts or other weapons.
Orks, Tryanids, you name it. a battle cannon will crush it (unless it terminators, then bring the Executioner!!). If someone brings armor of their own. Pack las cannons on the Russ (or even a Vanquisher should you want to try you luck with its hits)

Noone i've met is "afriad" of Russes. more respect them and try to get rid of them as they know their power.

Engine of War wrote:
I've found, (like those above have said), If the enemy doesn't pack anti tank weapons or keep them alive long enough to deal with the Russ, the Russ will be a deciding factor and bring victory.

You need to bring anti tank weapons to kill a tank? You don't say

Brother SRM wrote:

Engine of War wrote:
I've found, (like those above have said), If the enemy doesn't pack anti tank weapons or keep them alive long enough to deal with the Russ, the Russ will be a deciding factor and bring victory.

You need to bring anti tank weapons to kill a tank? You don't say

Or you need to just place space marines. Get close enough and a basic marine can blow a tank apart with kraks

Horst wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Engine of War wrote:
I've found, (like those above have said), If the enemy doesn't pack anti tank weapons or keep them alive long enough to deal with the Russ, the Russ will be a deciding factor and bring victory.

You need to bring anti tank weapons to kill a tank? You don't say

Or you need to just place space marines. Get close enough and a basic marine can blow a tank apart with kraks

Guardsmen can carry krak grenades too.

Basically I think it's due to : OH NOES more than 1 AV14- our interweb netlisted Str 7 spam meta list is no good !!one!!!

Insurgency Walker wrote:So EmilCrane do you feel you have enough ammo to tell the Russophobes to man up and learn to enjoy IG pie?

Well considering that of the four best players at club, three are guard players I think collectively told the rest of them to man up, yes

Unit1126PLL

You. Are. A. GOD! Never have I seen SOOOOOOOO Much Armour in 1 place. You have added a WHOLE new level to Overkill.

I played a game a couple of years ago with a friends CSM vs IG.
It was Slaanesh Based and had a number of Noise Marine squads. One champion from one of the NM squads refused to die. His unit took a full salvo from a LRBT Squadron and he was the only one left. Next turn he took another salvo and survived. Three turns later he was in those LRBT faces and tore two apart in two turns with his power fist.

Moral to the story... Every army has a weakness. LRBT walls have a weakness to CC.

I have played IG for a few years now, and, I do have a list with 8 Leman Russ tanks/varients at 2,000 points. I have never heard the Blood Angles player who drops Dante, ten man assault squad with two melta guns and a melta pistol, a priest with some sort of melta pistol complain about the tanks. Have had all three tanks in one squad taken out like that, more than once too.

There are advantages of the IG to field up to 9 av14/14/10 (11) tanks, however, there are disadvantages for that too.