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Please give me your thoughts on this list. I know I would absolutely hate to face this with my Dark Eldar.

Strategy is Alpha Strike. Hug all of the Scythes at the table edge, grab cover if available, and move forward and unleash everything. It would also use DE
concepts of flanking and collapsing one side of the opposing army.

The Wraiths synchronize well with the Doom Scythes, because once they tie things up in combat, the Doom Scythes can still use their Death Rays
on engaged foes.

Overlord w\ Warscythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w\ Night Scythe
6x Canoptek Wraiths
5x Canoptek Wraiths
Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe

2000 Points

that is definitely cheese....

Dark Haemonculus wrote:that is definitely cheese....

Please explain?

Tye_Informer wrote:

Dark Haemonculus wrote:that is definitely cheese....

Please explain?

I believe he is referring to the fact that the list is uber spam heavy.

I like Scythe wing lists. Depending on the cost of the models, and how vehicle damage in 6th will work, I want to build a scythe wing list badly.

That being said I would try to find room for Imhotek. He helps all Alpha strike Necron lists immensely.

It is cheese, because it rocks the socks of your opponent. Just leave a ds and a ns in reserves, and youll be able to handle a lot of stuff. If they are bringing lots of dakka that could pop em turn 1, leave more in reserves. no joke, but Dawn of War is scythes friends.

You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Hey! A list based around a bunch of av 11 fast skimmers! Necron razorspam lol.

That said, lacks variety, and most of all, resiliance. Those scythes are easy peasy to wreck, and for every wreck, you have warriors slogging it from the sidelines.

I'd cut one doomscythe to put more meat on the list...

nooo not the doomscythe. Cut a warrior/night scythe out for points

GoodTablePainting wrote:You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Actually, you can. You target a point on the ground with the doom scythe, and draw a straight line from there. That line can absolutely cross
models in close combat.

Darklight wrote:

GoodTablePainting wrote:You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Actually, you can. You target a point on the ground with the doom scythe, and draw a straight line from there. That line can absolutely cross
models in close combat.

According to the INAT FAQ, you can't.

pg. 47
◊NEC.50A.02 – Q: Can a Death Ray’s ‘line’ be drawn across a close combat?
A: No it may not.

... then again, that's only what's used at tournaments, so your FLGS might let you get away with it if they're not up to speed.

skoffs wrote:

Darklight wrote:

GoodTablePainting wrote:You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Actually, you can. You target a point on the ground with the doom scythe, and draw a straight line from there. That line can absolutely cross
models in close combat.

According to the INAT FAQ, you can't.

pg. 47
◊NEC.50A.02 – Q: Can a Death Ray’s ‘line’ be drawn across a close combat?
A: No it may not.

... then again, that's only what's used at tournaments, so your FLGS might let you get away with it if they're not up to speed.

That interpretation is in no way "official". The authors of the INAT FAQ do not work for GW, and do not publish official rules or FAQ. Additionally, the INAT FAQ is only used in select tournaments.

I actually called GW on the phone, and the CSR rep walked thru it with me and said you can. If I end up building the army, I will call GW again and record the phone call on my Iphone. That would end any discussion
if it became an issue in a game or tournament.

The reason; you don't actually "target" a model. You "target" the ground, and than draw the line. I would speculate that Ward specifically designed it this way, so
that it can be used in close combat.

Darklight wrote:That would end any discussion

HA
well obviously!
Perhaps you should tell YMDC that,
I'm sure they'd agree wholeheartedly with you there!


(translation: until it's in writing straight from GW, the majority of people will go by what the majority of people decide is the most acceptable way to play a thing... hence INAT)

There is a possible 108 s7 ap- shots coming out of the scythes + the 3 death rays. That will kill anyting quickly, even a Draigo wing will take a lot of casualties. I like this list a lot.

Darklight wrote:

skoffs wrote:

Darklight wrote:

GoodTablePainting wrote:You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Actually, you can. You target a point on the ground with the doom scythe, and draw a straight line from there. That line can absolutely cross
models in close combat.

According to the INAT FAQ, you can't.

pg. 47
◊NEC.50A.02 – Q: Can a Death Ray’s ‘line’ be drawn across a close combat?
A: No it may not.

... then again, that's only what's used at tournaments, so your FLGS might let you get away with it if they're not up to speed.

That interpretation is in no way "official". The authors of the INAT FAQ do not work for GW, and do not publish official rules or FAQ. Additionally, the INAT FAQ is only used in select tournaments.

I actually called GW on the phone, and the CSR rep walked thru it with me and said you can. If I end up building the army, I will call GW again and record the phone call on my Iphone. That would end any discussion
if it became an issue in a game or tournament.

The reason; you don't actually "target" a model. You "target" the ground, and than draw the line. I would speculate that Ward specifically designed it this way, so
that it can be used in close combat.

And if you use that mentality nobody will wanna play you... Its like using jotww or a flamer to "nick" a combat

skoffs wrote:

Darklight wrote:That would end any discussion

HA
well obviously!
Perhaps you should tell YMDC that,
I'm sure they'd agree wholeheartedly with you there!


(translation: until it's in writing straight from GW, the majority of people will go by what the majority of people decide is the most acceptable way to play a thing... hence INAT)

I disagree. If I have a GW rep on the phone stating it works a certain way, than that is how it is going to be in the game. Unless the TO rules otherwise, which I don't think he will. Especially, when I can easily play the recorded
conversation in front of him (gotta love technology).

On GW's website: "Games Workshop has a customer service number that is to be used for rules questions and dealing with damaged merchandise. The customer service number for Games Workshop - U.S. is: 1-800-394-4263"

So, officially, if a rules question is unanswered in the rules or FAQ, that number is the final say. YMDC & INAT FAQ are fan interpretations of the rules, not official.

Additionally, doing a thread search, people seem to be torn both ways on this issue. However, there is more of a leniency towards allowing it because of RAW. That is the camp I am in.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zid wrote:

Darklight wrote:

skoffs wrote:

Darklight wrote:

GoodTablePainting wrote:You can't intentionally shoot into close combat so negative on with wraiths and doom scythes.

Actually, you can. You target a point on the ground with the doom scythe, and draw a straight line from there. That line can absolutely cross
models in close combat.

According to the INAT FAQ, you can't.

pg. 47
◊NEC.50A.02 – Q: Can a Death Ray’s ‘line’ be drawn across a close combat?
A: No it may not.

... then again, that's only what's used at tournaments, so your FLGS might let you get away with it if they're not up to speed.

That interpretation is in no way "official". The authors of the INAT FAQ do not work for GW, and do not publish official rules or FAQ. Additionally, the INAT FAQ is only used in select tournaments.

I actually called GW on the phone, and the CSR rep walked thru it with me and said you can. If I end up building the army, I will call GW again and record the phone call on my Iphone. That would end any discussion
if it became an issue in a game or tournament.

The reason; you don't actually "target" a model. You "target" the ground, and than draw the line. I would speculate that Ward specifically designed it this way, so
that it can be used in close combat.

And if you use that mentality nobody will wanna play you... Its like using jotww or a flamer to "nick" a combat

I don't think this is the case. The Doomscythes are AV11, they go down almost as easy as DE skimmers. You also have to get really close to effectively use the Deathray.

Darklight wrote:wall of text

sure thing, power gamer.
enjoy your many many disagreements with opponents you are certain to encounter until GW puts something irrefutable in writing that can't be dismissed as conjecture.
(I wouldn't hold my breath for that)

skoffs wrote:

Darklight wrote:wall of text

sure thing, power gamer.
enjoy your many many disagreements with opponents you are certain to encounter until GW puts something irrefutable in writing that can't be dismissed as conjecture.
(I wouldn't hold my breath for that)

I don't think it is that broken. Sure, if you just let the Doomscythes zap you every turn and don't respond, it would be a mess. I foresee 1-2 Doomscythes being able to do it
per game. They will go down fast against any mid strength firepower.

Also, it is only a single straight line. I would guesstimate you would hit 4-5 models\turn with it.

I use a similar list, but drop a couple of Night scythes to have Imotekh and a Chronotek to maintain nightfight. This works well with this list as everything is 24" range or less, plus you sometimes get lucky with the lightening.

I think youre good with the drawing across CC. You always have the chance of hitting some of your own guys too.
Thats how I play my DoomScythes.

The INAT FAQ is in no way cannon anywhere but on Dakka, I think I have been to Two tournamants that actually use it.
So knock yourself out....

Oh; the recording GW rep saying "stuff" on your phone and playing it for your opponent....
I so wish someone would do that to me.

So I could laugh in their face.

gregor_xenos wrote:I think youre good with the drawing across CC. You always have the chance of hitting some of your own guys too.
Thats how I play my DoomScythes.

The INAT FAQ is in no way cannon anywhere but on Dakka, I think I have been to Two tournamants that actually use it.
So knock yourself out....

Oh; the recording GW rep saying "stuff" on your phone and playing it for your opponent....
I so wish someone would do that to me.

So I could laugh in their face.

I agree it is funny (and a bit anal), but funny or not, it would settle the issue.

Would I actually do it; probably not. I think GW will address it in the next Necron FAQ.

Darklight wrote:Would I actually do it; probably not. I think GW will address it in the next Necron FAQ.

Im gonna assume you mean shooting a unit in CC here.

I have. I had a 20 warrior squad tied up with a Dred.... They cant do anything, but they keep standing up. Deathray'd them, killed dred, lost 3 warriors to the line, 3 to explosion. 4 stood back up.

gregor_xenos wrote:

Darklight wrote:Would I actually do it; probably not. I think GW will address it in the next Necron FAQ.

Im gonna assume you mean shooting a unit in CC here.

I have. I had a 20 warrior squad tied up with a Dred.... They cant do anything, but they keep standing up. Deathray'd them, killed dred, lost 3 warriors to the line, 3 to explosion. 4 stood back up.

No, I meant playing a recorded call with GW. I would absolutely shoot into CC with the deathray, because I believe that is how it is intended to work.

I don't think this is the case. The Doomscythes are AV11, they go down almost as easy as DE skimmers. You also have to get really close to effectively use the Deathray.

I disagree It has a threat range of 27 inches for the death ray, and 36 inches for the tl tesla destructor...how did i get to this number?

Doom scythe moves 12 inches, picks a point 12 inches away, selects another point, rolls 3d6 and whiffs, rolling 1,1,1.
12+24 inches on the tesla destructor.
Ive never rolled less than 7 inches so far, and never more than 17 inches. Id say that is rather better than the necron average range.
So a guaranteed 27 inch death ray threat, with a possible 42 inch threat? Ill take that

Sure, they are very poppable But they are glass cannon designed to pop in and take down what they can before being destroyed.

I played a fun list against a serious SW list. My opponent brought max transports/razorbacks. I brought 2 arks, 20 warriors and a zan/ob deathstar. I got wiped facing his transports. He offered to bring the same list against anything i would bring against him, and i brought a imo scythe spam list.

He chose to reserve all of his stuff to avoid lightning, making me go first turn. I zoomed all but 1 ds and 1 transport (in reserved) across the board over two turns and "herded" the zones he could bring his reserves in. He rolled all of his transports coming in, 1 of his speeders and 2 of his razorbacks. He had to get rid of one of his transports because it could not move onto the board.
After all of his firing he wrecked one night scythe, and took the tesla destructor off of another. My turn, turn 3, i popped every single one of his transports, killed a razor back, killed his HQ, forced two foot units to flee off the board and strafed the heck out of his guys outside of the transports as much as possible.

Scythe spam is nasty, if you are prepared to lose the scythes. They are kamikaze

Basimpo wrote:

I don't think this is the case. The Doomscythes are AV11, they go down almost as easy as DE skimmers. You also have to get really close to effectively use the Deathray.

I disagree It has a threat range of 27 inches for the death ray, and 36 inches for the tl tesla destructor...how did i get to this number?

Doom scythe moves 12 inches, picks a point 12 inches away, selects another point, rolls 3d6 and whiffs, rolling 1,1,1.
12+24 inches on the tesla destructor.
Ive never rolled less than 7 inches so far, and never more than 17 inches. Id say that is rather better than the necron average range.
So a guaranteed 27 inch death ray threat, with a possible 42 inch threat? Ill take that

Sure, they are very poppable But they are glass cannon designed to pop in and take down what they can before being destroyed.

I played a fun list against a serious SW list. My opponent brought max transports/razorbacks. I brought 2 arks, 20 warriors and a zan/ob deathstar. I got wiped facing his transports. He offered to bring the same list against anything i would bring against him, and i brought a imo scythe spam list.

He chose to reserve all of his stuff to avoid lightning, making me go first turn. I zoomed all but 1 ds and 1 transport (in reserved) across the board over two turns and "herded" the zones he could bring his reserves in. He rolled all of his transports coming in, 1 of his speeders and 2 of his razorbacks. He had to get rid of one of his transports because it could not move onto the board.
After all of his firing he wrecked one night scythe, and took the tesla destructor off of another. My turn, turn 3, i popped every single one of his transports, killed a razor back, killed his HQ, forced two foot units to flee off the board and strafed the heck out of his guys outside of the transports as much as possible.

Scythe spam is nasty, if you are prepared to lose the scythes. They are kamikaze

I predict Scythe spam (or some variation of it, probably using Imotek) will be the top build for Necrons.

I would so love to see the look on your face when your opponent whips out his/her I-phone and plays their recorded message the contradicts yours!
Many of us have experiences where a rep was asked identical questions and differing answers were given.
Always ask ahead of time, those who are running a tournie; when there are potential rule interpretation issues.
For me this occurred in a fantasy tournie where the organizers used a much different interpretation of wizard spell selection than the online norm.
I was glad I asked ahead as it caused me to adjust my list.

I'm a big fan of double CCB. Doom scythes are often less tricky, less durable Barges, you'll also appreciate more redundancy in your threats to high AV.

My other point is that you will very likely want a couple of Solar pulses in there. Or at least one.

You'd need to cut one scythe, warrior squad and 2 wraiths to get another over lord and a pulsetek to go with him. Beyond that, is more up to you.

It sounds nice in theory, but think about the size of these models. They are going to be somewhat bigger than an Eldar serpent and as flyers will take the vendetta's large base. Now try to fit NINE of these things in a normal tournament map with proper terrain. I've seen IG have trouble manovering with just 3 vendettas. It will not work in practice.

Necrontyr40k wrote:It sounds nice in theory, but think about the size of these models. They are going to be somewhat bigger than an Eldar serpent and as flyers will take the vendetta's large base. Now try to fit NINE of these things in a normal tournament map with proper terrain. I've seen IG have trouble manovering with just 3 vendettas. It will not work in practice.

Thats what will make it interesting

lol i proxied vendettas and valkyries for my NS and DS' because thats about the size i believe they are going to be.

On a map full of terrain.

It can be done

But i cant speak for tournament anything lol

You know, an inferno cannon says to place the template anywhere so the small end is within '12. That doesn't mean it can shoot into close combat either. The main rule book specifically says you can't.

40k is a permissive rule system, meaning if they don't specifically say you can do something, then you can't.

Be sure to tell your future opponents how you plan on 'playing it as intended' so they can avoid you in the first place.