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Are Ogres in danger of dominating the game in the same way Deamons did?

No.

Nah imo

-they still have overall relatively medium LD and I, not too many super high armor saves
-their dudes cost quite a bit, loosing their combat ranks can really start to hurt them as they cant afford too many excess models
-their book has been out for quite a while now, so unlike daemons back in 7th they havent affected the meta too much even with months sunk in

Ogres are quite balanced with 8th, I'd say WoC are a tad more powerful than them but thats just me (and WoC arent auto win either)

No because with daemons not everyone and their mother played them.... Really you could throw a rock in most gaming clubs and hit like 4 ogre players.

^

In 7th I actually saw quite a few Daemon players. And when 8th came out, they strangely all left. FASCINATING. In 7th I literally think I saw a handful of ogre players and I felt sorry for them. I distinctly remember this little kid trying to charge a mini dwarven gunline with war machines and he looked so sad. Probably a 500 pt game over in a blink.

As I said in the other thread, Ogres are probably the best of the new 8th (IMHO), but the best of the new isn't like the best of old editions where it was like, "why are you even bothering to fight me?"

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:Are Ogres in danger of dominating the game in the same way Deamons did?

lol, no.

Not a big deal for anyone that can do multiple wounds.. My skaven warp lightning cannons can kill entire units in 1 hit

Or getting off a decent Purple Sun/Pit.

No such hard counters existed back then for Daemons.

Lets see..

Ogre Weaknesses:

Far smaller than most units (Compared to daemons bloodletters, with their S5 attacks)

Low Leadership (Tyrant is pricy)

No uber magic (Lore of the gutsmaw still doesn't compare at all to the lore of the chaos gods, but it's very nice and supportive)

Easily hit by save or die spells, and support spells, and generally things that support the enemy will hurt

Low WS3 all around (tough hitting those units)

Barely any magical weapons in the army (Ethereal is annoying!)

Even just getting off something like wildform will make it harder for ogres to really hurt you

The thing is, they are one of the cheapest races (As in price, it's far less expensive to make an ogre race than a buncha models for everything else!), not to mention due to this, they are a small army, so thus easier carrying, painting, and other things of said nature related to price.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lets see..
Barely any magical weapons in the army (Ethereal is annoying!)
.

What? Hahahha this is a funny joke. Firebelly and cheap BRB magic weapons say hello

Johnny-Crass wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lets see..
Barely any magical weapons in the army (Ethereal is annoying!)
.

What? Hahahha this is a funny joke. Firebelly and cheap BRB magic weapons say hello

Yes because magical weapons purely on heroes/lords is plenty of magic based weaponry.

Firebelly attacks aren't even magical, they are just flaming, unless you are talking about putting a weapon on them..In which case refer to previous.

I thought the firebelly's attacks were both magical and flaming?

motyak wrote:I thought the firebelly's attacks were both magical and flaming?

Rules:Fear, Flaming attacks, Flaming Ogre impact hits, 4++ against flaming attacks, S4 Flaming Breath attack.

No magical attacks of any kind without a magical weapon.

Whoopsie. Thanks

And you LOSE the flaming attacks if you give him a Magic Weapon(because Flaming doesn't transfer to attacks made with magic weapons)

Grey Templar wrote:And you LOSE the flaming attacks if you give him a Magic Weapon(because Flaming doesn't transfer to attacks made with magic weapons)

Often why people set him up with a Great Weapon to make up for it.

I think its actually best for him to have an XHW, especially if he's with IGs.

Then he can strike before them to negate Regen so their attacks cut through. If they go at the same time it doesn't stop their Regen.

Ogres do have trouble with ethereal units. It's pretty simple for hexwraiths to wipe out all their support elements (Ironblaster, Sabertusks, Mournfang...etc.)

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lets see..
Barely any magical weapons in the army (Ethereal is annoying!)
.

What? Hahahha this is a funny joke. Firebelly and cheap BRB magic weapons say hello

Yes because magical weapons purely on heroes/lords is plenty of magic based weaponry.

Firebelly attacks aren't even magical, they are just flaming, unless you are talking about putting a weapon on them..In which case refer to previous.

Yah what army besides daemons and woodies have infantry units with magic attacks? I can think of 0
And Firebelly has fireball. You never need to smack them with a magic weapon at all

Johnny-Crass wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lets see..
Barely any magical weapons in the army (Ethereal is annoying!)
.

What? Hahahha this is a funny joke. Firebelly and cheap BRB magic weapons say hello

Yes because magical weapons purely on heroes/lords is plenty of magic based weaponry.

Firebelly attacks aren't even magical, they are just flaming, unless you are talking about putting a weapon on them..In which case refer to previous.

Yah what army besides daemons and woodies have infantry units with magic attacks? I can think of 0
And Firebelly has fireball. You never need to smack them with a magic weapon at all

One doesn't need a standard infantry unit with it, just a semi-decent unit that can deter ethereal units, not to mention the firebelly fireball isn't exactly perfect vs armies with high ethereal and good casters (VC count for one, but I'm a bit biased since we have quite a few VC players down here, two of which run actual ethereal armies.)

Namely in part since the methods for getting rid of entire Ethereal units is a bit iffy (Static combat resolution through high ranks), with the other method being a bit more expensive (Put a butcher or bruiser in groups with a cheap magic weapon), but otherwise they'll run on through in order to penetrate the back ranks and deal some actual damage to my ironblaster)

Ethereals aren't really an issue for Ogres, the Firebelly gives you Fireball and a decent shot at getting Flaming Sword, and both the SMaster and BSB tend to carry magic weapons (Fencer's Blades and Biting Blade/Warrior Bane respectively).

Units of Etherials anyway.

The Banshee lineblocker unit can be a problem though.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Yah what army besides daemons and woodies have infantry units with magic attacks? I can think of 0

Skaven. Anything with a Warpstone weapon(including Jezzails, Plague Censer Bearers, and most Weapon Teams) counts as Magical.

And out of those, the majority are ranged.

In fact, it's easier to count the units that DON'T give you access to the purchase of Warpstone/Magic Weapons in some way(Slaves, Plague Monks, and Rat Swarms).

Edit: Forgot Master Moulders had Magic Weapon access.

There's only one list of Ogres I've seen people complain about: Horde w/ Hellheart Slaughtermaster. I don't think I've seen any other Ogre lists get people throwing up hands or expressing profanities, just that list. And even then, it only works against some armies (Dwarf + Flaming Cannons = Negated pretty much all the cheese).

Minsc wrote:There's only one list of Ogres I've seen people complain about: Horde w/ Hellheart Slaughtermaster. I don't think I've seen any other Ogre lists get people throwing up hands or expressing profanities, just that list. And even then, it only works against some armies (Dwarf + Flaming Cannons = Negated pretty much all the cheese).

Hordes of Ogres are perhaps the worst way to run them, as it makes them easier and more rewarding to redirect and it helps catch those boosted Pits... the bigger issue by far is Mournfang spam and Ironblasters backed up by the Gutstar with a front rank of 2 characters and champion, all of which are way too cost efficient. It does not reward good play, and just about any idiot can push it across the board and expect to win 75% of their games without displaying any sort of understanding of the game or good play.

tmarichards wrote:

Minsc wrote:There's only one list of Ogres I've seen people complain about: Horde w/ Hellheart Slaughtermaster. I don't think I've seen any other Ogre lists get people throwing up hands or expressing profanities, just that list. And even then, it only works against some armies (Dwarf + Flaming Cannons = Negated pretty much all the cheese).

Hordes of Ogres are perhaps the worst way to run them, as it makes them easier and more rewarding to redirect and it helps catch those boosted Pits... the bigger issue by far is Mournfang spam and Ironblasters backed up by the Gutstar with a front rank of 2 characters and champion, all of which are way too cost efficient. It does not reward good play, and just about any idiot can push it across the board and expect to win 75% of their games without displaying any sort of understanding of the game or good play.

This 1000%

Johnny-Crass wrote:Yah what army besides daemons and woodies have infantry units with magic attacks? I can think of 0
And Firebelly has fireball. You never need to smack them with a magic weapon at all

You are almost correct Johnny but there are a lot of armies that can get magical attacks on non-infantry but still useful units:

Brets: Grail Knights, Grail Vow on Chars (Cav)
WoC: Chaos Knights (Cav)
Dwarfs: Warmachines, Anvil (ranged)
LM: Engine of the Gods (Monster, AoE)
VC: All Ethereals (swarms, infantry chars & infantry unit), all Screams (ranged)
Ogres: Yhettis (MI) (ok not so useful)
HE: Amulet of Light (gives a bearer + the unit he is in magical attacks, usable on SM, PG, WL and Dragon Princes by way of unit champ!!)
Skaven: All the Warplightning stuff
Deamons: Everything
Wood Elves: Lots

Yes thank you for proving my point. Most armies do not have magical attacks coming out their ears like daemons do. Not many armies unless they are tailored are going to be ready for ethereal spam so making that a con does not make sense.

Stonewyrm wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:Yah what army besides daemons and woodies have infantry units with magic attacks? I can think of 0
And Firebelly has fireball. You never need to smack them with a magic weapon at all

You are almost correct Johnny but there are a lot of armies that can get magical attacks on non-infantry but still useful units:

Brets: Grail Knights, Grail Vow on Chars (Cav)
WoC: Chaos Knights (Cav)
Dwarfs: Warmachines, Anvil (ranged)
LM: Engine of the Gods (Monster, AoE)
VC: All Ethereals (swarms, infantry chars & infantry unit), all Screams (ranged)
Ogres: Yhettis (MI) (ok not so useful)
HE: Amulet of Light (gives a bearer + the unit he is in magical attacks, usable on SM, PG, WL and Dragon Princes by way of unit champ!!)
Skaven: All the Warplightning stuff
Deamons: everything
Wood Elves: Lots

You mentioned every army except empire, so how do they have magical attacks??