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Hi,
just wanted to know if there are any background texts on Infinity beside what is written in the two rulebooks. I guess there are no Infinity novels or stories yet, existing or planned, right?

Not to date, although the fanbase has been pushing for such things.

In the meantime, read Iain M. Banks "Use of Weapns" and "Consider Phlebas" for all the posthuman pew pew you could wish for. Considering the general level of "Owned World" literature written for gaming companies by contract authors, you probably will regard any Infinity novels as let-downs when/if they eventually come out

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:In the meantime, read Iain M. Banks "Use of Weapns" and "Consider Phlebas" for all the posthuman pew pew you could wish for. Considering the general level of "Owned World" literature written for gaming companies by contract authors, you probably will regard any Infinity novels as let-downs when/if they eventually come out

An EXCELLENT recommendation!

Absolutely read all of Banks' "Culture" books.

And I also HIGHLY recommend Neal Asher's ENTIRE "Polity" series of books!

The nights dawn trilogy is similar in tech level to much of Infinity - just don't bother with the last book as it is pretty pants

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:Considering the general level of "Owned World" literature written for gaming companies by contract authors, you probably will regard any Infinity novels as let-downs when/if they eventually come out

They really need to find someone who's genuinely into the fluff, not someone who's just writing generic sci-fi.

I really wouldn't want any Infinity novels to have the same kind of feel I get from reading Abnett's 40k novels (that he's more interested in making up his own stuff than conforming to the background) - I know some people love Abnett, but after having read quite so many brilliant fan authors, I'm not very impressed by him any more.

MarcoSkoll wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:Considering the general level of "Owned World" literature written for gaming companies by contract authors, you probably will regard any Infinity novels as let-downs when/if they eventually come out

They really need to find someone who's genuinely into the fluff, not someone who's just writing generic sci-fi.

I really wouldn't want any Infinity novels to have the same kind of feel I get from reading Abnett's 40k novels (that he's more interested in making up his own stuff than conforming to the background) - I know some people love Abnett, but after having read quite so many brilliant fan authors, I'm not very impressed by him any more.

This is one of those sentiments which irks the hell out of me.

Abnett is one of the most influential people on the background of 40k who was not one of the Original Writers.

Without Abnett, we'd never have seen the more human side of the Inquisition. We'd never have seen the fact that the Imperial Guard isn't just a mass of men to be thrown into the meat grinder, nor would we have seen the more human side of the Astartes as we've seen in the Horus Heresy novels.

It's one thing to say "It feels like Abnett writes the same thing repeatedly" and it's quite another to say that "I'm not very impressed by him" after reading fan authors. The majority of fan fiction is poorly written dribble which makes C.S. Goto look like bloody Shakespeare.

Anyways. Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" always reminds me of the atmosphere of Infinity. Admittedly, a bit "darker" Infinity but Infinity nonetheless.
I'd also put a shoutout here for "Embedded" by Dan Abnett. It--to me--captures the essence of Infinity. Factions are at each others' throats, but doing their best to make the public completely unawares. Terms like "war" and "conflict" are censored, and instead they're referred to as "disputes".

Yeah, I don't get the dislike for Abnett either.

I mean, I get that some of his Gaunts Ghosts books make them out to be a little too godlike. But the majority of his stuff is, frankly, fantastic.

His Heresy novels have been the best in the series. When you have the opening trilogy open with the incredible Horus Rising, then followed up by a pair of fun but forgettable books using the exact same characters and plot setup, you can see where the talen was. Then you have books like Legion. Spectacular.

Sure, he makes up some of his own stuff - if I was writing for an established universe, I'd make up some stuff myself as well. He's an author, he wants to be creative. But then, who at GW doesn't make stuff up. You want authors to conform to the universe? Even the studio writers don't. Look at the 5th edition codices. They're full of retcons and stuff made up on the spot for a particular short story. Look at how Ward, in the space of a single book, changed the entire progression of a Space Marine through the different types of squads.

Authors change things when they write for an established universe, because they want to leave their mark. At least when Abnett does it, it's done well.

Alastair Reynolds writes some really epic sci fi with cyborgs, post humans, super advanced tech and awesome space exploration. Highly recommended and in the same vein as infinity.

Kanluwen wrote:This is one of those sentiments which irks the hell out of me. Abnett is one of the most influential people on the background of 40k who was not one of the Original Writers.

I was unimpressed enough after reading Eisenhorn (I have many reasons, but suffice to say his handling of psychic nulls is amongst them), but after Ultramarines and its numerous fluff errors, I think my saying that I'm unimpressed by his work is not at all an unreasonable view for me to hold.

And I'd say your opinion of fan work is pessimistic. Yes, a lot of fan-work is indeed dire, but there are actually fan-authors who know what they're doing - some are even professional writers who are doing stuff purely out of love for the background. They're not writing to a deadline, no-one's told them to and there's no money in it.
As such, there are some VERY good fan-authors, if know where to find them and you're willing to go looking.

@Loki: I like Mat Ward's work even less. Him putting me off modern 40k is part of why I'm now playing Infinity.

~~~~~

Now, I'll admit I'm probably more critical than most as far as fiction, but suffice to say two things:
1) I feel that Abnett has often been allowed too much of a blank slate. (And definitely Ward.)
2) This is going off-topic.

1) I feel that Abnett has often been allowed too much of a blank slate.

There's a reason for that.

When Abnett started doing Eisenhorn?

There was practically nothing to go off of. It takes a special kind of person to essentially build up the background of a civilian's life, and that's what he did.
I'm honestly not sure what you could have to say about his "handling of psychic nulls", because like much else of what he wrote about for the Eisenhorn and Ravenor novels--there was so very little to go upon that he would have had to build it all from scratch no matter what.

It's important to realize that you can't tar all tie-in fiction with the same brush. Before Abnett, we had things like Ian Watson's "Inquisition War" and "Space Marine" or Bill King's "Space Wolves" novels. They were very much in keeping with the ideas that were happening with the setting at the time, but when they started to tighten things up it became a very different game.

MarcoSkoll wrote:@Loki: I like Mat Ward's work even less. Him putting me off modern 40k is part of why I'm now playing Infinity.

Ward was an example. Look at what Cruddace has done. Absolutely terrible, both the new ideas and what he actually wrote.

Another name to consider for the "infinity" feel (at least in terms of the "cube" and post-humans is Richard Morgan. His Kovacs trilogy covers some of the elements.

His "protagonist" Takeshi Kovacs is from a time where most people are implanted with a "stack" (read: cube). If your body is damaged or killed, you can be brought back.

He covers flesh (both cloned, gene-engineered and "au naturel") "sleeves" (bodies), and synthetic ones (and these also range from basic to ultra-advanced).

Infinity has a lot in common with the RPG Eclipse Phase. If the system for Eclipse Phase wasn't a hot mess, I'd use it to run a game set in the world of Infinity. Since it is a hot mess, I'd probably just use FATE or a Storyteller hack to run either.

I second the recommendation to check out Morgan's Takeshi Kovacs series.

(Hoping to keep Abnett and Ward hate out of this thread on Infinity)

My first impression is that Infinity background is complex as it has to balance quite a few factions, but does not completely manage to keep everything consistent. It is a good first shot that needs further tweaks and fine adjustments and of course could use some deepening of background. I am still getting into the background, but have the odd feeling that some things don't fit, but not being able to nail it down.

Kanluwen wrote:There's a reason for that.

Ugh. When I said "This is going off topic", it was supposed to be a hint that "I have my opinions, this is not the place for you to try and change them".

To condense my response to one sentence: There is not "nothing" to go off, because even if we (falsely) assume he never contradicts previously established fluff, the setting has an aesthetic that he doesn't always keep within.

Anyway, it is time to end this. Kindly leave further discussion of my opinions of any 40k authors out of this thread.

chromedog wrote:Another name to consider for the "infinity" feel (at least in terms of the "cube" and post-humans is Richard Morgan. His Kovacs trilogy covers some of the elements.

His "protagonist" Takeshi Kovacs is from a time where most people are implanted with a "stack" (read: cube). If your body is damaged or killed, you can be brought back.

He covers flesh (both cloned, gene-engineered and "au naturel") "sleeves" (bodies), and synthetic ones (and these also range from basic to ultra-advanced).

Speaking of cubes in Infinity: Are they available to everybody or is it reserved for rich and important people? What would happen if the cube was destroyed in action? Is there a backup somewhere else?

Inanimate wrote:

chromedog wrote:Another name to consider for the "infinity" feel (at least in terms of the "cube" and post-humans is Richard Morgan. His Kovacs trilogy covers some of the elements.

His "protagonist" Takeshi Kovacs is from a time where most people are implanted with a "stack" (read: cube). If your body is damaged or killed, you can be brought back.

He covers flesh (both cloned, gene-engineered and "au naturel") "sleeves" (bodies), and synthetic ones (and these also range from basic to ultra-advanced).

Speaking of cubes in Infinity: Are they available to everybody or is it reserved for rich and important people? What would happen if the cube was destroyed in action? Is there a backup somewhere else?

It depends on where you're talking about.

PanOceania, for example, is described as pretty much everybody having access to Cubes.
Haqqislam is described as having access to them, but the Caliphate restricts their distribution and Yu Jing does something similar.
Ariadna is described as not really having Cubes, but considering their isolation that makes sense.
The Nomad Nation is likely full of them, but I can't say for sure on that one.

And ALEPH will...well, ALEPH will likely have them for all their operatives as once they join ALEPH's group it seems they've kinda proven themselves to be worth preserving.

Many citizens gave access to cubes but only the very rich can afford a new body. According to the background the government or church do bring back exceptional individuals. I think if your cube is destroyed your just screwed. Maybe they can back them up occasionally so you only lose your most recent memories?

@ Kanluwen and jedi76:

Ok, thanks for the info. I don't own the rulebooks, so all the fluff I have access to comes from the descriptions on their website. Everything you have to tell is great.

Since Sepsitors are frowned upon/illegal, then it must be sort of a big deal to destroy a cube. Maybe it's enough to kill off a regular individual/consciousness, but it would be stupid not to do back-ups of more important individuals. The back-ups wouldn't be performed too often, ofcourse, so that in a campaign situation, a death would lead to loss of XP.

Some of the Nomad units have data ports which allow them to upload themselves to an external cube, so if they/their body are capured in combat, the other side can't just rip their memories from their cube.

Inanimate wrote:@ Kanluwen and jedi76:

Ok, thanks for the info. I don't own the rulebooks, so all the fluff I have access to comes from the descriptions on their website. Everything you have to tell is great.

Since Sepsitors are frowned upon/illegal, then it must be sort of a big deal to destroy a cube. Maybe it's enough to kill off a regular individual/consciousness, but it would be stupid not to do back-ups of more important individuals. The back-ups wouldn't be performed too often, ofcourse, so that in a campaign situation, a death would lead to loss of XP.

Not just sepsitors. Sepsitors "trojan" your cube. Taking it over and any backup after that point would be compromised. It might be possible to use a previous backup to bring you back, but you would lose the time between.
ANYTHING which damages the cubes (there are a batch of e/m weapons that do this as well) is also "frowned upon". The way I see it, death of the flesh is a hindrance. Death of a cube is dead for real.
In the Takeshi Kovacs books, the punishment for inflicting "real death" on someone is "stack [cube] erasure." (if you just kill the body, so that they can still come back, it's just a long stretch in the tank - your cube is downloaded to storage for several centuries, the culture shock when you are released should f*** you over more than anything else (in a society with virtual immortality, normal prison sentences are meaningless). If you kill them in such a way as they cannot 'resurrect', then you die, for real.). I'd posit that the concilium convention has a similar policy. I'd love to see an O-12 "envoy" (used to cow children in the same way as the "boogeyman". The envoys are used to put down unrest. Permanently. )

Alpharius wrote:
Absolutely read all of Banks' "Culture" books.

And I also HIGHLY recommend Neal Asher's ENTIRE "Polity" series of books!

Absolutely, those books are amazing, Banks can write so well (I'm glad he returned to SF after all those years away, he has got such an imagination! )

As SilverMk2 says, some of the Peter F Hamilton books are similar in style. The Night's Dawn trilogy has some of the best sci-fi action sequences you will ever read - if you want future tech being written with as much detail as possible, he is a really evocative writer.

Chromedog wrote:Not just sepsitors. Sepsitors "trojan" your cube. Taking it over and any backup after that point would be compromised. It might be possible to use a previous backup to bring you back, but you would lose the time between.

Yes right.. it is interesting how the rule book describes the Sepsitor - the sense of fear it creates in opponents of the C.A., with their 'voodoo tech' turning their own squadmates against them.

I'd love to see an O-12 "envoy" (used to cow children in the same way as the "boogeyman". The envoys are used to put down unrest. Permanently. )

I know there was some talk on the official forums about the O-12 being the next faction released. Might be interesting, although if they stick to the "this weapon's use is banned by the O-12 consortium" weapon's descriptions in the rules, they will have a pretty limited armoury!

PS: Off topic, regarding Abnett, anyone who has followed GW for 10-15 years or more would realise that he has done perhaps more than anyone to flesh-out the universe for that game. The guy has an imagination and a half, and is at his best when he is allowed to let it flourish: Legion, the Eisenhorn books, even Prospero Burns (essentially creating a new concept for the Space Wolves). I think he is one of the few writers (along with ADB) who really 'gets' the original conception of the 40k universe, that 'Grimdark' everyone is always talking about.
Ward's stuff is designed to make 13-year olds say 'wow, that is AWESOME!' and then go out and buy a model. If you view all of the codecies/army books in that manner, then none of the background in them will disappoint you.

Pacific wrote:Anyone who has followed GW for 10-15 years or more would realise that he has done perhaps more than anyone to flesh-out the universe for that game.

That's a very general statement. You should be able to work out quite how long I've followed GW from my Dakka code.

And, again, off-topic.

Everyone who hasn't already read Asher's stuff should start with "Gridlinked" (or maybe "Shadow of the Scorpion", but that's just a prequel to "Gridlinked" and you don't have to start there) and then read all of the rest of the "Cormac" books.

Then read all of the other "Polity" setting books.

The timeline's something you might want to pay attention to, and there's an awesome chart of it here:



Though to be honest, they are ALL great!

The intelligent war drone Sniper is one of my favorite characters!

This is great because I was going to start a thread on "who knows some good books" This has given me a few to look into.

@Alpharius - It's Gridlinked not GriNdlinked.

I felt like a tard standing in Barnes n' Nobel trying to find a book that doesn't exist on my lunchbreak.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:@Alpharius - It's Gridlinked not GriNdlinked.

I felt like a tard standing in Barnes n' Nobel trying to find a book that doesn't exist on my lunchbreak.

That was a typo - always look for the author's name!

Fixed typo now - and my apologies!

Did you pick it up?

It is awesome stuff, and it only gets better!

They didn't have a single thing in stock by that author. I was sad.

Reading a preview of it on my phone as we speak though.

Sadly, Asher seems to be tough to find in US book stores.

You'll have better luck online, especially on Amazon and definitely on The Book Depository (I think) - they are overseas, but ship to the US for free.

His stuff is WELL worth it though!