oh look, Bush raised govt spending 7x more than Obama...

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**Kid_Kyoto**

Nice chart, it seems Bush raised federal spending 8% in each of his terms, Obama...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/22/1093906/-Obama-did-not-go-on-federal-spending-binge-Pace-of-increase-now-lowest-it-has-been-in-decades

1.4%

Not that the MSM would ever admit this.

Oh and historically, Reagan raised it 8%, Clinton 3%

**Bromsy**

Now, as I have been forced to point out recently - I am no doctor of Mathology, but I am fairly sure 1.4 goes into 8 something like 5.7 times, not 7 times.

**biccat**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:dailykos.com

There's your problem right there.

**Kid_Kyoto**

biccat wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:dailykos.com

There's your problem right there.

Go ahead, refute it

**Chowderhead**

Bromsy wrote:Now, as I have been forced to point out recently - I am no doctor of Mathology, but I am fairly sure 1.4 goes into 8 something like 5.7 times, not 7 times.

Agreed.

Also, in the second graph, it says he steadied the spending. Not made it go down, but just leveled it.

That's not much of an achievement, IMHO.

**Frazzled**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Nice chart, it seems Bush raised federal spending 8% in each of his terms, Obama...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/22/1093906/-Obama-did-not-go-on-federal-spending-binge-Pace-of-increase-now-lowest-it-has-been-in-decades

1.4%

Not that the MSM would ever admit this.

Oh and historically, Reagan raised it 8%, Clinton 3%

Whats so awesome is how much sophistry that is.

If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

Or President Obama.

**biccat**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
biccat wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:dailykos.com

There's your problem right there.

Go ahead, refute it

Unfortunately, hate sites are blocked.

But I suspect it's the same information that has already been posted elsewhere.

**Chowderhead**

Frazzled wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Nice chart, it seems Bush raised federal spending 8% in each of his terms, Obama...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/22/1093906/-Obama-did-not-go-on-federal-spending-binge-Pace-of-increase-now-lowest-it-has-been-in-decades

1.4%

Not that the MSM would ever admit this.

Oh and historically, Reagan raised it 8%, Clinton 3%

Whats so awesome is how much sophistry that is.

If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

Or President Obama.

Yes, because the budget for a country is so much like that for a household.

Oh wait...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
biccat wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:dailykos.com

There's your problem right there.

Go ahead, refute it

Unfortunately, hate sites are blocked.

But I suspect it's the same information that has already been posted elsewhere.

I'm going to have to agree with Biccat on this.

The Daily Kos looks like a Democratic Hate Machine, and probably has a bit of a bias.

Just a bit.

**biccat**

Frazzled wrote:If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

More like buying a car one year (paying for the whole thing), and then including that in your budget every year.

"See honey? Last year under your budgeting we increased our spending by $30,000 on a new car. Spending since I took over has been relatively flat."

**Joey**

Frazzled wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Nice chart, it seems Bush raised federal spending 8% in each of his terms, Obama...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/22/1093906/-Obama-did-not-go-on-federal-spending-binge-Pace-of-increase-now-lowest-it-has-been-in-decades

1.4%

Not that the MSM would ever admit this.

Oh and historically, Reagan raised it 8%, Clinton 3%

Whats so awesome is how much sophistry that is.

If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

Or President Obama.

What?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynes

**Frazzled**

biccat wrote:
Frazzled wrote:If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

More like buying a car one year (paying for the whole thing), and then including that in your budget every year.

"See honey? Last year under your budgeting we increased our spending by $30,000 on a new car. Spending since I took over has been relatively flat."

Good point. True point. I for one welcome our new Weimarian style govenrment financial situation. After all thats never caused any problems before.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Nice chart, it seems Bush raised federal spending 8% in each of his terms, Obama...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/22/1093906/-Obama-did-not-go-on-federal-spending-binge-Pace-of-increase-now-lowest-it-has-been-in-decades

1.4%

Not that the MSM would ever admit this.

Oh and historically, Reagan raised it 8%, Clinton 3%

Whats so awesome is how much sophistry that is.

If your wife loses her job, cutting the family income in half, and you only raise your spending 5%, you're still an idiot.

Or President Obama.

What?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynes

A better example:
http://fxtrade.oanda.ca/analysis/infographics/greece-economic-crisis

**Joey**

Frazzled wrote:
A better example:
http://fxtrade.oanda.ca/analysis/infographics/greece-economic-crisis

Keynsian economics is not "spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too". The fact that you think it is makes me wonder why you bother to post in economics threads at all if you can't understand these very basic things.

**Frazzled**

Joey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
A better example:
http://fxtrade.oanda.ca/analysis/infographics/greece-economic-crisis

Keynsian economics is not "spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too". The fact that you think it is makes me wonder why you bother to post in economics threads at all if you can't understand these very basic things.

I agree. However, YOU cited the joke that is Obama spending as an example of Keynesian economics. "Spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too," is accurate in that circumstance.

**Kilkrazy**

You need a government more like Belgium's.

**CT GAMER**

Chowderhead wrote:
The Daily Kos looks like a Democratic Hate Machine, and probably has a bit of a bias.

Just a bit.

Like if you repeatedly used fox news as a cited souce.

wait we see that regularly here...

**Kid_Kyoto**

Frazzled wrote:
Joey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
A better example:
http://fxtrade.oanda.ca/analysis/infographics/greece-economic-crisis

Keynsian economics is not "spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too". The fact that you think it is makes me wonder why you bother to post in economics threads at all if you can't understand these very basic things.

I agree. However, YOU cited the joke that is Obama spending as an example of Keynesian economics. "Spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too," is accurate in that circumstance.

Not even close. It was Bush who spent like a drunk sailor with no plan to pay for it, at a time the economy was growing.

Rather than, say keep the balanced budget Clinton left him and pay down the debt.

Republican deficit hawks have no credibility. None.

Obama has the unenviable position of having to stimulate the economy AFTER the national credit card was maxed out, and far from Greek levels of spending he's kept it lower than any president in 30 years.

The Republican narrative is fiction, when they ask where our dept came from they need to look in the mirror.

And in Iraq.

**CT GAMER**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

The Republican narrative is fiction, when they ask where our dept came from they need to look in the mirror.

And in Iraq.

Well, we needed to find those WMDs...

(And fatten Halliburton's bottom line)

**juraigamer**

CT GAMER wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
The Daily Kos looks like a Democratic Hate Machine, and probably has a bit of a bias.

Just a bit.

Like if you repeatedly used fox news as a cited souce.

wait we see that regularly here...

Dohoho!

News channel(s) and political parties are driving us apart, it's like "thar be treason afoot!"

**Melissia**

The Republican narrative is fiction

Pretty much this.

**Joey**

Frazzled wrote:
Joey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
A better example:
http://fxtrade.oanda.ca/analysis/infographics/greece-economic-crisis

Keynsian economics is not "spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too". The fact that you think it is makes me wonder why you bother to post in economics threads at all if you can't understand these very basic things.

I agree. However, YOU cited the joke that is Obama spending as an example of Keynesian economics. "Spend far more money than you can afford, all the time, and lie to everyone about it too," is accurate in that circumstance.

All government spending stimulates the economy, to varying degrees, hence why it's increased in a time of recession.
You have no factual basis for suggesting that the president is increasing spending to further socialistic/state capitalist goals. Unless this rabid-left winger got to be president, and coincidentally there was a recession going on so he got to do so under the veil of Keynesism.

**sebster**

Frazzled wrote:Good point. True point. I for one welcome our new Weimarian style govenrment financial situation. After all thats never caused any problems before.

I've explained to you before that the Weimar Republic has little in common with the US, despite you thinking 'Weimar Republic had debt, USA has debt' is a powerful analogy.

For instance, at the peak of hyperinflation in the Weimar Repbulic was around 26,000,000,000%. The annualised rate of inflation for the US as of April 2012 is 2.6%. These, as I'm sure you would be aware, are very different numbers from each other.

I keep explaining to you that they're very different, and you keep ignoring me and just repeating your point. It's really getting quite ridiculous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:
The Republican narrative is fiction
Pretty much this.

Yes, very much so.

**alarmingrick**

sebster wrote:
Melissia wrote:
The Republican narrative is fiction
Pretty much this.

Yes, very much so.

Seeing as I third the motion, I say we break for beer and pizza. On Frazz.

**Bromsy**

alarmingrick wrote:
sebster wrote:
Melissia wrote:
The Republican narrative is fiction
Pretty much this.

Yes, very much so.

Seeing as I third the motion, I say we break for beer and pizza. On Frazz.

I'd prefer a glass and a plate, respectively. But to each their own.

**alarmingrick**

Bromsy wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:
sebster wrote:
Melissia wrote:
The Republican narrative is fiction
Pretty much this.

Yes, very much so.

Seeing as I third the motion, I say we break for beer and pizza. On Frazz.

I'd prefer a glass and a plate, respectively. But to each their own.

Glass of beer and a plate of pizza? Sure, I can compromise.

**Bromsy**

If only our political leaders were as enlightened as us.

**SagesStone**

I'm pretty sure they like glasses and plates too.

**AustonT**

juraigamer wrote:
Dohoho!

News channel(s) and political parties are driving us apart, it's like "thar be treason afoot!"

some useless old guy wrote:In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union...One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts...they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection...The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Joey wrote:
You have no factual basis for suggesting that the president is increasing spending to further socialistic/state capitalist goals. Unless this rabid-left winger got to be president, and coincidentally there was a recession going on so he got to do so under the veil of Keynesism.

check
and check

**Bromsy**

n0t_u wrote:I'm pretty sure they like glasses and plates too.

But they hate the compromise that is represented by the plates and glasses!

See, if we were like our political leaders, i'd be eating my pizza off a plate and drinking my beer out of a glass and calling rick a godless heathen, and rick would be eating and drinking his off frazzled and calling me a demagogue.

But instead, civility and joy abounds.

**AustonT**

Bromsy wrote:
n0t_u wrote:I'm pretty sure they like glasses and plates too.

But they hate the compromise that is represented by the plates and glasses!

See, if we were like our political leaders, i'd be eating my pizza off a plate and drinking my beer out of a glass and calling rick a godless heathen, and rick would be eating and drinking his off frazzled and calling me a demagogue.

A compromise between a plate and a glass is a bowl

**SagesStone**

Compromise was between having a glass and a plate or nothing. I'd have to agree with the cost cutting method and compromise with paper cups and paper plates as if you drop them they won't break so you can dust them off.