oh look, Bush raised govt spending 7x more than Obama...

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**AustonT**

n0t_u wrote:Compromise was between having a glass and a plate or nothing. I'd have to agree with the cost cutting method and compromise with paper cups and paper plates as if you drop them they won't break so you can dust them off.

I counter with Styrofoam bowls; they float. So you can eat in a hot tub.

**Bromsy**

AustonT wrote:
Bromsy wrote:
n0t_u wrote:I'm pretty sure they like glasses and plates too.

But they hate the compromise that is represented by the plates and glasses!

See, if we were like our political leaders, i'd be eating my pizza off a plate and drinking my beer out of a glass and calling rick a godless heathen, and rick would be eating and drinking his off frazzled and calling me a demagogue.

A compromise between a plate and a glass is a bowl

Or a trencher, tureen, gravy boat, or tajine, I'm just happy so long as I'm not served off of Fraz.

**AustonT**

I feel like a gravy boat is stretching. That's more like a compromise between a pitcher and a plate, or a pitcher and a bowl. I have no idea what a trencher is as to me that's a long coat.

**SagesStone**

If I'm Googling it right, I believe serving pizza with the trencher would be the most entertaining use for the budget.

For the larger gatherings.

**Bromsy**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trencher_%28tableware%29

and a gravy boat is like a cup but flattened out some, so I am standing by my argument that it is half cup half plate.

Although serving mashed taters out of what not_u came up with would also be dead sexy.

**MrDwhitey**

I prefer n0t_u's.

**Frazzled**

n0t_u wrote:If I'm Googling it right, I believe serving pizza with the trencher would be the most entertaining use for the budget.

For the larger gatherings.

Don't show my wife. She'll want one.

**Chowderhead**

CT GAMER wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
The Daily Kos looks like a Democratic Hate Machine, and probably has a bit of a bias.

Just a bit.

Like if you repeatedly used fox news as a cited souce.

wait we see that regularly here...

Now, just a thought:

There is a difference between me posting stories from Fox News, and me citing it as a source.

Facts! They're so much fun!

**AustonT**

Bromsy wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trencher_%28tableware%29

and a gravy boat is like a cup but flattened out some, so I am standing by my argument that it is half cup half plate.

Although serving mashed taters out of what not_u came up with would also be dead sexy.

Squashed pitcher!

**Manchu**

Back on-topic please!

**timetowaste85**

MMM....pizza. Wait, isn't pizza the topic of this conversation? If not, I'm in the wrong thread. Also,

at the Bush defenders who are continuing their "we hate Obama" stance. Except Frazzled-he's proven he's alright by the furry, brown company he keeps.

**biccat**

timetowaste85 wrote:Also, at the Bush defenders who are continuing their "we hate Obama" stance.

No

at people who continue, 3 years after Obama took office, their "It's all Bush's fault" stance?

**Manchu**

It's a pity more Republicans can't see the value of regulation. If you really wanted to drag President Obama over the coals, you could just bring up his deference to Wallstreet.

I'm not sure that the graph in the article suggests the President has gotten spending "under control." I suspect it illustrates the ambivalence of either side more than anything else.

**biccat**

Manchu wrote:It's a pity more Republicans can't see the value of regulation. If you really wanted to drag President Obama over the coals, you could just bring up his deference to Wallstreet.

Believe it or not, the best way for a center-right party to attack a left (or center-left if you want) president is not by trying to outmaneuver him to the left.

**Da Boss**

If you looked at issues on an individual basis instead of on a left right axis, more problems would get solved.

**Manchu**

biccat wrote:Believe it or not, the best way for a center-right party to attack a left (or center-left if you want) president is not by trying to outmaneuver him to the left.

Fair point, and even more relevant in that we're dealing with a far right party attacking a center-right one. What I mean to say is, the President hasn't done much that's center-left much less left: passed Newt Gingrich's vision of healthcare reform and encouraged Wallstreet to pretend nothing happened. You can see why he needed to kick up some dust with gay marriage.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I don't think regulation is necessarily "leftist." It's just not libertarian. I don't buy the libertarian attempt to masquerade as conservatives. The finance sector should be reeled in to actually finance things rather than betting on bets about betting.

**Frazzled**

-Cap and tax
-EPA now implementing the cap part (see destruction of coal fired plants at FYE)
-Obamacare fiasco
-Greatest federal deficit in the history of mankind
-Financial regulation so vague no one in the industry knows whats going to come down the pike
-Cradle to grave help for Julia.
EDIT: Forgot about the crony capitalism and massive government spending to support goverment payrolls, not infrastructure or other actual services.

center right only in a fevered imagination.

**biccat**

Manchu wrote:Fair point, and even more relevant in that we're dealing with a far right party attacking a center-right one.

The Republican party is certainly not far-right. The fact that Romney is the presidential nominee and the last nominee was McCain should be sufficient for that. If you want more evidence, look at Bush's major legislative accomplishments.

Manchu wrote:What I mean to say is, the President hasn't done much that's center-left much less left: passed Newt Gingrich's vision of healthcare reform and encouraged Wallstreet to pretend nothing happened. You can see why he needed to kick up some dust with gay marriage.

Stop referring to it as a Republican health care reform position. It's not. The idea was floated around some Right-wing think tanks a while ago, but never went anywhere. To continue to claim it's anything but center-left is dishonest. Second, Obama has been pretty harsh on Wall Street. So I'm not sure where you're getting that idea that he's encouraging Wall Street to pretend nothing happened.

He hasn't done much that's center-left, much less left, because he isn't a good President and hasn't been able to accomplish much in Congress. He proposes some broad idea them dumps it off on the Democrats in Congress to find the votes. He then goes out and gives speeches demonizing Republicans for not going along with his idea, not knowing what exactly is in the bill that the DNC has put forward. Then when the bill inevitably fails, he gets the administrative agencies to do what Congress would not.

Put simply, Obama is a good demagogue and advocates a lot of left-wing positions, but he's not actually good at running the Executive. He's shown both an inability and an unwillingness to work with Congressional Republicans to get bills passed. And there are Republicans from liberal states that would work with him if he reached out to them. Obama's current strategy seems to be "get Democrats elected and we'll fix everything," where his strategy should be getting some things done to create a real record of success.

The fact that leftwingers are mimicking Obama's reference to Romney as all kinds of an evil Right-winger (seriously...Romney, governor of Massachusettes) shows that Obama doesn't have much to run on.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:Also, I don't think regulation is necessarily "leftist." It's just not libertarian. I don't buy the libertarian attempt to masquerade as conservatives. The finance sector should be reeled in to actually finance things rather than betting on bets about betting.

Actually, finance companies should do whatever is in their business interest. If they want to bet on bets about betting, who cares? Don't do business with them. Others will come in and finance things when the big boys go down.

**Frazzled**

I'll just leave this here from that right wing rag the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/forget-bain-obamas-public-equity-record-is-the-real-scandal/2012/05/24/gJQAXnXCnU_allComments.html?ctab=all_&

Forget Bain — Obama’s public-equity record is the real scandal
Text Size PrintE-mailReprintsBy Marc A. Thiessen, Published: May 24The Washington Post Despite a growing backlash from his fellow Democrats, President Obama has doubled down on his attacks on Mitt Romney’s tenure at Bain Capital. But the strategy could backfire in ways Obama did not anticipate. After all, if Romney’s record in private equity is fair game, then so is Obama’s record in public equity — and that record is not pretty.

Since taking office, Obama has invested billions of taxpayer dollars in private businesses, including as part of his stimulus spending bill. Many of those investments have turned out to be unmitigated disasters — leaving in their wake bankruptcies, layoffs, criminal investigations and taxpayers on the hook for billions. Consider just a few examples of Obama’s public equity failures:

.● Raser Technologies. In 2010, the Obama administration gave Raser a $33 million taxpayer-funded grant to build a power plant in Beaver Creek, Utah. According to the Wall Street Journal, after burning through our tax dollars, the company filed for bankruptcy protection in 2012. The plant now has fewer than 10 employees, and Raser owes $1.5 million in back taxes.

● ECOtality. The Obama administration gave ECOtality $126.2 million in taxpayer money in 2009 for, among other things, the installation of 14,000 electric car chargers in five states. Obama even hosted the company’s president, Don Karner, in the first lady’s box during the 2010 State of the Union address as an example of a stimulus success story. According to ECOtality’s own SEC filings, the company has since incurred more than $45 million in losses and has told the federal government, “We may not achieve or sustain profitability on a quarterly or annual basis in the future.”

Worse, according to CBS News the company is “under investigation for insider trading,” and Karner has been subpoenaed “for any and all documentation surrounding the public announcement of the first Department of Energy grant to the company.”

● Nevada Geothermal Power (NGP). The Obama administration gave NGP a $98.5 million taxpayer loan guarantee in 2010. The New York Times reported last October that the company is in “financial turmoil” and that “[a]fter a series of technical missteps that are draining Nevada Geothermal’s cash reserves, its own auditor concluded in a filing released last week that there was ‘significant doubt about the company’s ability to continue as a going concern.’ ”

● First Solar. The Obama administration provided First Solar with more than $3 billion in loan guarantees for power plants in Arizona and California. According to a Bloomberg Businessweek report last week, the company “fell to a record low in Nasdaq Stock Market trading May 4 after reporting $401 million in restructuring costs tied to firing 30 percent of its workforce.”

● Abound Solar, Inc. The Obama administration gave Abound Solar a $400 million loan guarantee to build photovoltaic panel factories. According to Forbes, in February the company halted production and laid off 180 employees.

● Beacon Power. The Obama administration gave Beacon — a green-energy storage company — a $43 million loan guarantee. According to CBS News, at the time of the loan, “Standard and Poor’s had confidentially given the project a dismal outlook of ‘CCC-plus.’ ” In the fall of 2011, Beacon received a delisting notice from Nasdaq and filed for bankruptcy.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. A company called SunPower got a $1.2 billion loan guarantee from the Obama administration, and as of January, the company owed more than it was worth. Brightsource got a $1.6 billion loan guarantee and posted a string of net losses totaling $177 million. And, of course, let’s not forget Solyndra — the solar panel manufacturer that received $535 million in taxpayer-funded loan guarantees and went bankrupt, leaving taxpayers on the hook.

Amazingly, Obama has declared that all the projects received funding “based solely on their merits.” But as Hoover Institution scholar Peter Schweizer reported in his book, “Throw Them All Out,” fully 71 percent of the Obama Energy Department’s grants and loans went to “individuals who were bundlers, members of Obama’s National Finance Committee, or large donors to the Democratic Party.” Collectively, these Obama cronies raised $457,834 for his campaign, and they were in turn approved for grants or loans of nearly $11.35 billion. Obama said this week it’s not the president’s job “to make a lot of money for investors.” Well, he sure seems to have made a lot of (taxpayer) money for investors in his political machine.

All that cronyism and corruption is catching up with the administration. According to Politico, “The Energy Department’s inspector general has launched more than 100 criminal investigations” related to the department’s green-energy programs.

Now the man who made Solyndra a household name says Mitt Romney’s record at Bain Capital “is what this campaign is going to be about.” Good luck with that, Mr. President. If Obama wants to attack Romney’s alleged private equity failures as chief executive of Bain, he’d better be ready to defend his own massive public equity failures as chief executive of the United States.

**Manchu**

biccat wrote:The Republican party is certainly not far-right. The fact that Romney is the presidential nominee and the last nominee was McCain should be sufficient for that.

All that proves is that the American electorate isn't (self-consciously) far-right.

As to your evaluation of the President, I disagree that he's inept. Rather, I think he's been quite effective as the best friend that Wallstreet ever had. But who cares as long as dudes can marry other dudes?

biccat wrote:Actually, finance companies should do whatever is in their business interest. If they want to bet on bets about betting, who cares? Don't do business with them. Others will come in and finance things when the big boys go down.

This is silly. You're saying individuals should reign in Wallstreet by ... what, closing their Wells Fargo checking accounts?

**Melissia**

The invisible hand. Because if it were REAL regulation instead of some theoretical entirely non-existent regulation based off of a philosophy about free trade which doesn't really apply to today's financial markets, it'd be baaaaad baaaaad lefties!

**frgsinwntr**

Manchu wrote:
biccat wrote:The Republican party is certainly not far-right. The fact that Romney is the presidential nominee and the last nominee was McCain should be sufficient for that.
All that proves is that the American electorate isn't (self-consciously) far-right.

As to your evaluation of the President, I disagree that he's inept. Rather, I think he's been quite effective as the best friend that Wallstreet ever had. But who cares as long as dudes can marry other dudes?
biccat wrote:Actually, finance companies should do whatever is in their business interest. If they want to bet on bets about betting, who cares? Don't do business with them. Others will come in and finance things when the big boys go down.
This is silly. You're saying individuals should reign in Wallstreet by ... what, closing their Wells Fargo checking accounts?

What gets me... is people think he is a socialist who is all for wall street....

How could he be both?

**Manchu**

Barak Obama is about as much of a socialist as biccat is.

**MeanGreenStompa**

frgsinwntr wrote:
What gets me... is people think he is a socialist who is all for wall street....

How could he be both?

And a nazi and a muslim and a communist... and doubtless a lizard person from the Nth dimension.

**Bromsy**

Frazzled wrote:I'll just leave this here from that right wing rag the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/forget-bain-obamas-public-equity-record-is-the-real-scandal/2012/05/24/gJQAXnXCnU_allComments.html?ctab=all_&

● Beacon Power. The Obama administration gave Beacon — a green-energy storage company — a $43 million loan guarantee. According to CBS News, at the time of the loan, “Standard and Poor’s had confidentially given the project a dismal outlook of ‘CCC-plus.’ ” In the fall of 2011, Beacon received a delisting notice from Nasdaq and filed for bankruptcy.

I got all the way through before I realized that wasn't Bacon Power. I am a little sad now.

As far as regulation - if you can get gas below 1.50 - go for it. Doesn't seem interested in that one though.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
frgsinwntr wrote:
What gets me... is people think he is a socialist who is all for wall street....

How could he be both?

And a nazi and a muslim and a communist... and doubtless a lizard person from the Nth dimension.

Son, I knew lizards for the Nth dimension, and you're no lizards from the Nth dimension.

**biccat**

Manchu wrote:Rather, I think he's been quite effective as the best friend that Wallstreet ever had.

Considering Obama signed Dodd-Frank, I think it's safe to say your comment is pretty much wrong.

Manchu wrote:This is silly. You're saying individuals should reign in Wallstreet by ... what, closing their Wells Fargo checking accounts?

Sure. But don't be sad if millions of other Wells Fargo customers don't follow suit.

Regulation is unnecessary when the market behaves in the manner you want. A call for regulation therefore is a call to force people to act in a manner that you want.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

frgsinwntr wrote:What gets me... is people think he is a socialist who is all for wall street....

State capitalism is a socialist concept.

**AustonT**

biccat wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:What gets me... is people think he is a socialist who is all for wall street....

State capitalism is a socialist concept.

National Socialist?

**Melissia**

So that must mean that Republicans are socialists.

**AustonT**

Melissia wrote:So that must mean that Republicans are socialists.

Yes!