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I have hit a wall against grey knight paladins I cant get enough orks close enough to them to swarm them, I can only get one squad of 30 on them at a time without them charging me and bye the time I do get to him he has already reduced me to 20 boys and then in melee combat he kills like 9 ot so and I do like 3 to him and since im fearless I get reduced to like the nob and 3 boyz due to fearless saves, my nob squads just are focused on and chewed to 4 or so guys which cant do anything against i6 palies before getting mowed over, I managed to kill like 4 guys the whole game and wounded every other one, he had 2 squads of 10, draigo, 2 combat space marine gk squads, 2 razorbacks, a dreadknight which did almost nothing and 2 twin auto cannons dreadnoughts w/ psi bolts which craked open my battlewagon turn 1 through my front w/ a kff on it/ bad luick there

I had 2 squads of 30 sluggas and 2 squads of 30 shootas, 15 burnas which whiffed when I charged them in, 15 lootas which did a good bit of wounds, 8 nobs in a battlewagon, standard build, warboss, kff mek, 5 kopas, dead turn 1 also

basically he got turn 1, killed wagon koptas then chewed through my running units until they were worthless in assult, then he would back up and deny me assult until he would assult me, I just couldn't charge him, it was always him, then when I had a chance to charge him, my running whiffed for waaaagh turn how should I beat this list, I can handle squads of 5 just not squads of 10

for the 5 koptas, split them up and run just 3 units of 1. Make sure they all have rokkits. If he's going first, then turbo boost them to give them a 3+ cover save.

If he backs away from you so you can't charge, then back away from him as well, you really want the charge. make sure all your boy squads have power klaws.

Looted wagons with boom guns help. Large blast full of insta deth goodness

Khans can help, but don't just charge with just 3 of em, you'll want a boy squad to charge in at the same time.

Basically the more stuff you have that insta kills him the better. Because things that insta kill deny fell no pain rolls, which helps thin his models down quicker because any failed save is a model removed. When he's allocating make sure he suffers the insta death wounds first before assigning regular wounds.

Bring lots of area terrain for cover saves, the more boys you can save the better.

Build up your karma and/or maybe some loaded dice

Paladins, eh?

Kustom Mega Blastas.

Str8, ap2. No armour save, no FNP, and an entire paladin lost per save failed, due to ID.

Don't ever assault them. When I first encountered them in a 2v2, a squad of 10 paladans walked through Rokkit fire, kannon fire, big shoota fire, grotzooka fire, shoota fire, dark lance and blaster fire (was allied with a DE player), and they killed a total of 40 shoota boyz, a full squad of wyches, 15 tankbustas, and 6 killa kanz - and still had three guys left by the end of the game. Their higher initiative and stupidly hardy nature means they will liquefy infantry, hammerhand means they pose a notable threat against walkers as well.

Kustom Mega Blastas are simply a necesity if you know you're fighting them. Put them on your Killa Kanz. I've put them on my Grot Tanks.

I've seen a lot of different lists go up on dakka lately and I think khar is right, my list is 5 wagons 3 full of boys nob pk/bp 2 big meks 2 6 man nob squads and a dakka jet. I'm literally just going to run them over. Strength 10 hits and the klaws should help to soften them up =D I think your list needs more heavy in it however you can get it. It needs beef. Those pallys are just stupid hard to kill, maybe get a BW shooty list, 2 shooty wagons burnas nobs however many you can fit and give every nob a PK you need to hit as hard as possible as fast as possible and if you try the shooty wagons and have the big meks you can just out range them shoot them to pieces and have the nobs chop up the rest.

Rokkits and KMBs are the first two things I think of.

Boomguns would work also, but I know how the internet feels about Looted Wagons.

thing about deff rollas is they still get their 2+ save, I like idea of kmb Ill try to incorporate kans w/ them on, it seems that im still screwed any way I fling my poop at him

If your opponent is throwing 10 paladins at you, keep the KMB fire on them - see if you can fit multiple Kan squadrons on them. On average, a single kan squadron volley will take out a paladin. If you have three squadrons of kanz, that's three paladins a turn. Keep your kanz back (lest the paladins get close enough to charge), and keep them under the KFF to help mitigate psycannon fire.

You're effectively dedicating just under 500pts of KMB Kanz to focus on your opponent's squad of at *least* 550pts of paladins (if taken without upgrades or HQ's) - and they are most likely going to spend a few hundred more on psycannons, an apothecary, psybolt ammo, and an attatched HQ.

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:thing about deff rollas is they still get their 2+ save, I like idea of kmb Ill try to incorporate kans w/ them on, it seems that im still screwed any way I fling my poop at him

The still aren't fearless, so they might break, plus you get to screw up his movement and LoS when tank-shocking right on top of them. If you do manage to have him fail a 2+ save, that paladin will instantly be gone, no FNP or two wounds will help him. If they shoot the battlewagon they will not be able to assault anything else, if they shoot anything else, they will not be able to assault it and get tank-shocked again.

Other than that, don't charge paladins. Shoot them with everything until they are decimated enough. Charge them only once you killed two out of the following: Brotherhood Banner, Apothecrary, Draigo, Warding Stave.

Tank shocking actually works well against them - I've used empty trukks to seriously delay a full draigo paladin squad by pushing them behind it, forcing them to either assault the trukk (delaying them), and/or having to move around the trukk/trukk depris (more delaying).

You only need to kill 3 of them in a single phase to force leadership if they are at full strength. 2 when they are at 8. A single failed test allows you breathing space - they move back. Keep a useless unit within 6" of them, they keep running.

Kharrak wrote:
You only need to kill 3 of them in a single phase to force leadership if they are at full strength. 2 when they are at 8. A single failed test allows you breathing space - they move back. Keep a useless unit within 6" of them, they keep running.

I thought it was 50% losses in the shooting phase to force a Ld test?

25%. And it's all phases, not just shooting. Have had great moments with units running away because they were ambushed by deadly tree vines.

We had this thread some time ago.
In my opinion it is list tailoring to take this many paladins, as other armies would love facing them.

It is like using landraider spam against orks.

This is why i have allways paid an extra 5 points for my kanz to have blastas instead or rokkitz.
AP2 really does help to no end, more so when its something the army really does lack.

I usually field a kan wall, so i can sit back and shoot with them if needed.
However, any large templates, AP2, anything you can just force a ton of saves with will work.
Might also be one of the rare times when a shokk attack gun comes into its own and helps.

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:thing about deff rollas is they still get their 2+ save, I like idea of kmb Ill try to incorporate kans w/ them on, it seems that im still screwed any way I fling my poop at him

It would cause instant death and in the rule book it says that only invun's can be taken against stuff that confers instant death.

FenWulf29 wrote:

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:thing about deff rollas is they still get their 2+ save, I like idea of kmb Ill try to incorporate kans w/ them on, it seems that im still screwed any way I fling my poop at him

It would cause instant death and in the rule book it says that only invun's can be taken against stuff that confers instant death.

Wait, but MEQs still get their saves against Hive Guard who have a high enough strength to cause instant death against them.

The only time I faced this list, I was running 2 battlewagons, 4 trukks, Big Mek w/KFF and a Big Mek w/ Sag.

I just stayed away and shot and shot and shot and shot and shot. I focused on one squad and ignored the other. I think after 3 turns, I had finally killed one squad. The SAG really helped but most people don't run it.

It was not a fun game to play. Orks kept backing away and keeping the paladins 13" to 18" away from my trukks (i.e. in shoota range).

Kain wrote:

FenWulf29 wrote:

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:thing about deff rollas is they still get their 2+ save, I like idea of kmb Ill try to incorporate kans w/ them on, it seems that im still screwed any way I fling my poop at him

It would cause instant death and in the rule book it says that only invun's can be taken against stuff that confers instant death.

Wait, but MEQs still get their saves against Hive Guard who have a high enough strength to cause instant death against them.

Being strenght 10 doesn't negate armour save. It only negates the FNP if it is double there toughnes (i.e. toughness 5 or less.) So with death rollers the enemy still gets there armour save, but the str 10 hit negates the FNP on most models.

As stated, ID never negates armour saves, just FNP.

KMB's are actually a fantastic tool to have, and find use against most armies. 5pts more than rokkits, but it allows you to ignore 2+ armour saves, and deny FNP to t5+ models.

I prefer them on my grot tanks, since I can have a larger volley of fire.

I'm a fan of the burna wagon. 1 Battlewagon full of 15 burna boys. You tankshock the paladins into a huddle and lay down 15 flamer templates. If you cover 8 of them you will kill 5 on average. This also doesn't take into account any losses from the deathroller damage.

The trick will just be getting them there.

Jayden63 wrote:I'm a fan of the burna wagon. 1 Battlewagon full of 15 burna boys. You tankshock the paladins into a huddle and lay down 15 flamer templates. If you cover 8 of them you will kill 5 on average. This also doesn't take into account any losses from the deathroller damage.

The trick will just be getting them there.

Luckily, a draigowing list isn't going to have too much that's capable of piercing your armour, as even Psycannon spam is very iffy against AV14.

Unless they get a side AV12 shot, which is possible.
Even then it's a 6 for a penetrating hit.

Whenever you tank shock someone don't they HAVE to take a LD test though? I know with my wagons I've run wolv cav off the board with it. Just run in tank shock them if they fail ld they run and take wounds yes? or just the running I dunno. but either way you can REALLY delay if they fail LD or they fail those stupid 2+ saves -.-

On the topic of tank shocking, a unit that is falling back automatically fails any morale checks, so when you get them to fall back, they can be tank shocked again and again to get longer fallbacks. Also IIRC pallies aren't even Ld10 w/o a character leading them.

The most devastating tactic i heard of is a combined charge of boyz and meganobz. Use Boyz to tie up all paladins and then clip meganobz against the guy with the brotherhood banner (he has no force weapon...).
My friend pulled that off and routed the whole squad at the cost of a few boyz.

I just learned, according to people who have played this game longer then ive been alive, that the deff rolla actually doesnt allow armor saves, so I just need to get them there :/

It does definately allow armour saves, since it does not explicity disallow them, neither is it a class of weapon that does ignore armour saves.

But Strength 10 gives you a -7 to your armor save ... oh wait, this isn't WFB.

Gorfang EadSplitta wrote:I just learned, according to people who have played this game longer then ive been alive, that the deff rolla actually doesnt allow armor saves, so I just need to get them there :/

Where on earth is this perception coming from? Nothing in the Defrolla nor the ID rules say that they negate armour saves.

-Nazdreg- wrote:The most devastating tactic i heard of is a combined charge of boyz and meganobz. Use Boyz to tie up all paladins and then clip meganobz against the guy with the brotherhood banner (he has no force weapon...).
My friend pulled that off and routed the whole squad at the cost of a few boyz.

I dunno about this - the paladins could just use their Force Weapons on the Meganobz . Being able to just clip the brotherhood banner guy? Sounds overly difficult. When you assault, you have to wrap in, and you are forced to get as many guys into combat as possible. The Paladins will also only react after you've made all your assault moves, so they can potentially adjust to focus on the Meganobz. In addition, all Paladins within 2" of the brotherhood banner guy can opt to hit the meganobz unless they are base to base with only the boyz.

The paladins will be hitting first, bypassing the Meganob armour save, and killing each nob for each wound inflicted. Each Meganob lost is -2 to the ork player's combat resolution. The boyz will hardly phase the paladins, aside from the nob - who will get two attacks through, but still contend with 5+ invuls.

TL Autocannons, even at strength 8, are far from ideal for cracking Battlewagons.

The thing that's far more devastating to Battlewagons is either Assault Cannons with Psybolt or the more ubiquitous Psycannons, because they have rending and therefore can have a more reasonable chance at penetrating AV14.

I believe I've said it before, but any list that hopes to beat GKs in close combat should include Ghazghkull Thraka. He has no weakness against GKs and provides your entire army with greater mobility. He has the same offense as a Warboss, except better, and has Eternal Warrior.

Try using him. At the very least, even if he isn't as good as the GKs special characters, at least he will kill several Paladins reliably.

Kharrak wrote:I dunno about this - the paladins could just use their Force Weapons on the Meganobz . Being able to just clip the brotherhood banner guy? Sounds overly difficult. When you assault, you have to wrap in, and you are forced to get as many guys into combat as possible. The Paladins will also only react after you've made all your assault moves, so they can potentially adjust to focus on the Meganobz. In addition, all Paladins within 2" of the brotherhood banner guy can opt to hit the meganobz unless they are base to base with only the boyz.

The paladins will be hitting first, bypassing the Meganob armour save, and killing each nob for each wound inflicted. Each Meganob lost is -2 to the ork player's combat resolution. The boyz will hardly phase the paladins, aside from the nob - who will get two attacks through, but still contend with 5+ invuls.

Bit of a bump, but hey ho.

Here's how it works:

Boys assault the paladins and get into BtB with all of them, leaving a small gap. The meganobs are off to one side and just in reach of one of the paladins through the gap. The paladins in BtB with the boys have to attack them, no choice about it, only the single model in contact with the lead meganob can attack the meganobs, if this is the banner bearer, all the better. There should be a number of meganobs clustered around the lead member, which all attack through him.

A bunch of boys die, maybe a meganob, then a torrent of PKs rain on the paladins.