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It came up in a game recently during Dawn of War deployment. My opponent insists that I have to declare that my search light is being used in order for my already-successful roll-to-see (i.e. 2D6 x 3) to also activate Search Light. Otherwise, my weapon will shoot but another vehicle shooting will get no benefit.

In other words,

I declare my Rhino shoots at his unit. I roll and I can see him. I shoot my Stormbolter. No wound (as always)
I declare my Razorback now shoots at the same unit. He says I have to roll to see because Searchlight was not declared to be used last time.

I was on the bottom turn so I guess it make sense for him to try to deny as much Searchlight effect as possible. It was a friendly game after all so I didn't quibble.

UPDATE: (current) final verdict on the issue:
1- You don't have a choice whether to use Searchlight or not. When Night Fighting is in effect, a roll to spot will activate search light if it is successful.
2- (Only) On a successful roll to spot, the shooting and the target vehicles are both illuminated (per the rule).
3- Once a target is illuminated, further shooting at that target from another vehicle does not activate search light for these vehicles since no roll to spot is used (because Night Fighting rule is removed for the target vehicle)

Searchlights aren't optional. If you successfully fire a weapon during Night Fight, the searchlight goes off as well.

You really should make sure to declare the use of your searchlight. Normally how I play is as long as you declare it while shooting with the unit that has the searchlight it's all good. This is especially true if you had been at the top of the turn because if you had used the searchlight your opponent could of seen your vehicle clearly.

@insaniak: I was trying to find the rule for that but I couldn't in the quick 30 seconds that I tried.

@CrashCanuck: I should have but then I didn't know if it was optional or not.

I just looked up the wording of searchlights in the C:SM and it doesn't say it's optional or mandatory. I have always played that it is optional and haven't had an opponent argue that.

leohart wrote:@insaniak: I was trying to find the rule for that but I couldn't in the quick 30 seconds that I tried.

There is no rule that specifically says 'Searchlights are no optional'... it just doesn't give you a choice as to whether or not to use them in their rules. When you successfully spot a target, the searchlight works. No declaration is required by the rules.


Having said that, it's certainly polite to mention the searchlight when it goes off, in case your opponent doesn't realise that your vehicles have them (particularly if you don't have them modelled).

CrashCanuck wrote:You really should make sure to declare the use of your searchlight. Normally how I play is as long as you declare it while shooting with the unit that has the searchlight it's all good. This is especially true if you had been at the top of the turn because if you had used the searchlight your opponent could of seen your vehicle clearly.

But only after the target is acquired. If the Night Fighting roll is not enough to spot the target the searchlight does nothing. It only illuminates the target after it is acquired.

ToBeWilly wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:You really should make sure to declare the use of your searchlight. Normally how I play is as long as you declare it while shooting with the unit that has the searchlight it's all good. This is especially true if you had been at the top of the turn because if you had used the searchlight your opponent could of seen your vehicle clearly.

But only after the target is acquired. If the Night Fighting roll is not enough to spot the target the searchlight does nothing. It only illuminates the target after it is acquired.

Of course, that is said right in the rules for them.

If searchlight is in fact not optional, wouldn't that mean any vehicle shooting at a searchlighted vehicle will become sitting duck on the bottom player turn?

Yes it would.

CrashCanuck wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:You really should make sure to declare the use of your searchlight. Normally how I play is as long as you declare it while shooting with the unit that has the searchlight it's all good. This is especially true if you had been at the top of the turn because if you had used the searchlight your opponent could of seen your vehicle clearly.

But only after the target is acquired. If the Night Fighting roll is not enough to spot the target the searchlight does nothing. It only illuminates the target after it is acquired.

Of course, that is said right in the rules for them.

What I mean to say is, it wouldn't matter if you declared it or not, the searchlight doesn't illuminate the firing vehicle (the one shooting the searchlight) unless it illuminates the target. If you do not spot anything with the Night Fighting roll, searchlights do nothing, including making the firing vehicle visible to the enemy.

Hmm, that would change my previous tournament play a LOT. My single rhino was taking a beating top turn and I rolled poorly on seeing of my shooting while I shouldn't have to roll.

I have read the entry of Search light just now and I am not sure if this intepretation is correct:

1) Night fighting rule in effect => Search light will be used.
2) First vehicle shoot, successfully acquire target => both models are illuminated.
3) Second vehicle shoot at the same target will ignore night fighting rule (see entry). Thus 1 will not apply. So second vehicle is not lit up.

My turn of shooting, I shoot at the 2nd vehicle, I would still have to roll to see no?

leohart wrote:If searchlight is in fact not optional, wouldn't that mean any vehicle shooting at a searchlighted vehicle will become sitting duck on the bottom player turn?

Yes. Every vehicle that has a searchlight and shoots something during night fight will be illuminated. You can't choose to not use the searchlight, so it will automatically apply.

insaniak wrote:Yes. Every vehicle that has a searchlight and shoots something during night fight will be illuminated. You can't choose to not use the searchlight, so it will automatically apply.

I question this. If you do not need to roll for Night Fight your searchlights can't go off. The rule states, "If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target.."

No night fighting roll no searchlights.

leohart wrote:3) Second vehicle shoot at the same target will ignore night fighting rule (see entry). Thus 1 will not apply. So second vehicle is not lit up.

Actually, yes, that would be correct. Shooting at an already lit vehicle would mean that your searchlight doesn't go off.

insaniak wrote:There is no rule that specifically says 'Searchlights are no optional'... it just doesn't give you a choice as to whether or not to use them in their rules. When you successfully spot a target, the searchlight works. No declaration is required by the rules.


Having said that, it's certainly polite to mention the searchlight when it goes off, in case your opponent doesn't realise that your vehicles have them (particularly if you don't have them modelled).

This, precisely.
iirc there were some that used to be optional, but no longer.

insaniak wrote:

leohart wrote:3) Second vehicle shoot at the same target will ignore night fighting rule (see entry). Thus 1 will not apply. So second vehicle is not lit up.

Actually, yes, that would be correct. Shooting at an already lit vehicle would mean that your searchlight doesn't go off.

Exactly so. If you successfully roll to spot, and you have a searchlight, you automatically use it. If you fail the roll, or never roll to spot in the first place, you don't use it.

Insaniak has it correct.

1) If a model/vehicle/unit has a search light and rolls for night fight, then it is using it's search light.

2) If successful, then any unit in your army can fire at the target unit without rolling night fight. Since you didn't roll for night fight, you are not using it for any other unit that may be equipped with search lights.

3) Even if you are unsuccessful with the night fight roll, you are illuminated (if you have a search light) and may be shot at by your opponent without your opponent needing to roll for night fighting range.

imweasel wrote:3) Even if you are unsuccessful with the night fight roll, you are illuminated (if you have a search light) and may be shot at by your opponent without your opponent needing to roll for night fighting range.

I disagree with this. You must acquire the target first before the searchlight illuminates it. if you can't spot the target unit the searchlight does nothing.

ToBeWilly wrote:

imweasel wrote:3) Even if you are unsuccessful with the night fight roll, you are illuminated (if you have a search light) and may be shot at by your opponent without your opponent needing to roll for night fighting range.

I disagree with this. You must acquire the target first before the searchlight illuminates it. if you can't spot the target unit the searchlight does nothing.

Have you read the rule? No where does it state that you have to successfully use the searchlight, just that you used it.

"However, a vehicle that uses a searchlight, can be targeted during the following enemy turn, as if the night fighting rules were not in effect, as the enemy can see the searchlight."

I have no idea how you reached your conclusion.

To use a searchlight, you must illuminate your target.
If you fail to roll the distance, the searchlight isn't used.

rigeld2 wrote:To use a searchlight, you must illuminate your target.
If you fail to roll the distance, the searchlight isn't used.

Simply by rolling night fight, you are using a searchlight if you have one equipped.

Once again, show in the rules where the searchlight is only 'used' on a successful night fight roll.

The rules don't say that at all.

The illuminate only happens on a successful night fight roll.

If you're arguing based on the first sentence ("Searchlights are used where the night fight rule is in place") then it doesn't even matter if you shoot or not.

The "However" clause comes after a successful use, not any use.

I will have to wait until I get home to read the rule from the codec.

But I don't believe you are correct in your assumption.

Targets that are already lit don't need night fight rolls. Targets that are shooting at them ignore the night fight rules.

imweasel wrote:I will have to wait until I get home to read the rule from the codec.

But I don't believe you are correct in your assumption.

Targets that are already lit don't need night fight rolls. Targets that are shooting at them ignore the night fight rules.

See the part I put in quotes? That's a direct quote from the Space Marine codex.
So either you only light yourself up if you light up your target,
or you are always lit up, whether or not you shoot.

Those are your two choices.

rigeld2 wrote:either you only light yourself up if you light up your target,
or you are always lit up, whether or not you shoot.

Those are your two choices.

I read it that way too, but maybe it doesn't have to be.
"Searchlights are used when the night fighting rule is in effect."
Full stop.

It goes on to describe how to illuminate a unit with it, but never actually states that is the only thing that causes it to be "used".

Realistically (I know, I know!) it makes more sense that the illumination is not required to succeed, and literally it seems possible that I have just misread it until now.

More time to read!

editing two wrong words

Right - I disagree with the idea that you're always lit up, even if you choose not to shoot, but it's supported if you take the "However" sentence to apply to the entire rules.

If you take the "However" sentence to only apply to a successful illumination (the way you'd normally read the paragraph) you're only lit up when you lite someone else up.

rigeld2 wrote:Right - I disagree with the idea that you're always lit up, even if you choose not to shoot, but it's supported if you take the "However" sentence to apply to the entire rules.

If you take the "However" sentence to only apply to a successful illumination (the way you'd normally read the paragraph) you're only lit up when you lite someone else up.

The issue though, is that you necessarily are using the searchlight if you are attempting to illuminate a target.

Weird.

Also, it is just as easy to read that "However" as a warning that there is a downside to (even attempting?) this.

Hmm, maybe THAT'S why Eldar have no searchlights!

But seriously, having a searchlight means you are illuminated in Night Fighting regardless of if illuminate something else seems wrong.

jwolf wrote:But seriously, having a searchlight means you are illuminated in Night Fighting regardless of if illuminate something else seems wrong.

That was my initial reaction too, but only because I have always seen it played that way.

The more I read and think about it the more it makes sense.
Do you have a spot light on your vehicle shining bright?
Guess what? People can see you in the dark!