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Other than being a beatstick (A tad overkill really) he's useless.
According to the FAQ they get to move 6" if they run.
Now since they can't assault if they run it's almost pointless. A normal waaagh is better than Ghaz's.

Well that's the end of him in greentide lists.
Unless you can use a normal waaagh and his in combination (Not sure if that's allowed?)

If that was the case you could in theory assault from 24" away in your turn.
6" move 6" 12" assault.

Anyway, he might still be useful for calling out other characters, with eternal warrior lots of wounds and power weapons not being able to hurt him

His Waagh! replaces the normal one.

You are right on all other accounts.

Several reasons to take Ghaz still:

He's not as slow as he once was.

He can still rip apart other units, especially Terminator squads on the Waaagh! with his 2++ invuln save.

He makes your army fearless when you need it, especially when your model count gets dangerously thin and you do not want certain models to run away.

And you can always save that Waaagh! to ensure that you have the max ability to run to get to an objective late game. Kind of situational now.

I still think he's worth the extra points over a kitted out megaboss.

WS6 (very useful against a lot of opponents).
Extra wound.
More attacks on the charge.
Fearless army and 2+ inv. save on the Waaagh! turn.

I'll still be using him.

He still gets his 2+ invul and as you said is an eternal warrior, which with MC's getting smash means there is the possibility of getting your generic warboss killed. But I play a lot of tyranids so my opinion towards that is a little schewed.

The problem is is that assault has been nerfed overall, so there is a distinct chance that he may not get into a combat, which would be very bad if left out in the open.

Don't forget that Fearless wounds no longer exist, so Making all units Fearless (Small mobs, lootas, nobs, etc.) is pretty good.

dont forget that lovely 2+ AS, this alone in this edition is worh its weight in gold, he can now reliably run into GK units and bitch slap them around for troll lolz and not have to rely on a 5++ to save his ass, chuck in FNP if you take some nobs (not as good as they were but still good) and he is even nastier... Ghazghull is just as nasty as he was, just the waaagh got nerfed a little

Also, we still as an army have to answer another army's deathstar when they bring it. Ghaz for the points is the swiss army klaw to go toe to toe with most enemies out there.

Not a huge ork specialist, but the 2+ save has been made a lot better since Gaz will strike at the same time anyone that can bypass his save will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(the same goes for all meganobz though)

Seb wrote:Not a huge ork specialist, but the 2+ save has been made a lot better since Gaz will strike at the same time anyone that can bypass his save will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(the same goes for all meganobz though)

Expect for Necrons and an Eldar Special character who ignores 2+ but is faster then I1

Edit: Oh and basicly every MC

Ok, just get a Megaboss. A Warboss with Mega Armour would cost you 130 points and have 6 WS5 S10 attacks on the charge, and 2+/5++ just like Ghaz. Any advantage conferred to Ghaz by the changes to Mega Armour apply to Megabosses as well - so save yourself 100 points if you want to go that route.

TedNugent wrote:Ok, just get a Megaboss. A Warboss with Mega Armour would cost you 130 points and have 6 WS5 S10 attacks on the charge, and 2+/5++ just like Ghaz. Any advantage conferred to Ghaz by the changes to Mega Armour apply to Megabosses as well - so save yourself 100 points if you want to go that route.

while this is true, a megaboss does not wreck face nearly as much as Ghaz... plus ghaz is cooler

Take it from someone who's spent a good deal of time recently watching his Warboss get beaten into the ground -- even without an improved Waagh, Ghaz is still probably worth it. Regular Warbosses are pussycats compared to a lot of the characters in the game right now.

Waaaagh still gives fleet. So yeah, the 6" run isn't useful for getting into assault, but getting Fleet allows you to reroll one or more of the Charge dice. roll a 6 and a 1? reroll just the 1.

That and he is still a CC monster means I'll still run him in large games.

Please keep in mind that a lot of Ghazghkull benefits here are also provided by a warboss in MA. The sole differences are:

- Eternal Warrior
- +1 Attack on the charge only
- +1 Wound
- +1 WS
- 2++ and entire army fearless for two turns
All other stats are the same or irrelevant

For a whooping 100 points. You can almost get a second MA warboss for that.

Things that Gazzy can deal with that a MAWB cannot:

DCCWs
MCs
Lysander (maybe... one of the few SCs that has a chance)
Str10 shooting
PF/TH/Power Axe units (when Waaaghing)
Force and D Weapons

I'm willing to spend the extra points for that flexibility. Too many times have I come across something that just gut's the WB or blenderises my meganobs.


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Besides, the fixed run loss isn't a huge thing. Now that battle wagons can move flat out our overall turn two threat range is thus:

New charge range is thus: 7" (RPJ) + 6" + 2D6" (re-roll on Waaagh!) for an average of around 22".

Total turn two distance: 13" + 6" + 7" + 6" + 2D6" (re-roll on Waaagh!) = around 41".

Then there's the trukk...

New charge range is thus: 7" (RPJ) + 6" + 2D6" (re-roll on Waaagh!) for an average of around 22".

Total turn two distance: 13" + 12" + 7" + 6" + 2D6" (re-roll on Waaagh!) = around 47".

We will not have problems getting into assault

Most of those can now be taken care of by a biker warboss though.

Plus, you are still spending 225 points on him, that's almost too expensive for games below 2000.

Ghaz is also the only IC that can stand up to other IC and take their save and tear them a new @$$hole.

If I had an Ork army, Ghaz would be in it.

Jidmah wrote:Most of those can now be taken care of by a biker warboss though.

Plus, you are still spending 225 points on him, that's almost too expensive for games below 2000.

My thoughts also, I would prefer my 55p Weirdboy for a better dispel and some anti-aircraft.
I mean the points your spending would do better elsewhere.

The thing about deathstars is they're pointless. Don't engage with them just kite them and go for easier kill points or objectives. With this random charge range they might not even be able to assault.
Deathstars are not good in 6th, unless it's a shooty deathstar.

KrimsunBaron wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Most of those can now be taken care of by a biker warboss though.

Plus, you are still spending 225 points on him, that's almost too expensive for games below 2000.

My thoughts also, I would prefer my 55p Weirdboy for a better dispel and some anti-aircraft.
I mean the points your spending would do better elsewhere.

The thing about deathstars is they're pointless. Don't engage with them just kite them and go for easier kill points or objectives. With this random charge range they might not even be able to assault.
Deathstars are not good in 6th, unless it's a shooty deathstar.

Considering that 6th isn't even out a week, you are basically telling fortunes from a crystal ball.

I also highly doubt that nob bikers can be kited.

Considering nothing changes over time as the ink and paper is a constant I'm not sure what you're trying to get at?

Random charge ranges equals a tough time for expensive deathstars. Nob bikers can be kited, just need the right tool or tarpit.

Tarpitting is nothing but the exact opposite of kiting.

In order to kite a deathstar you need to kite it with your entire army. They don't run after land speeders like Grotznik.

My point is, no one has absolutely any overview about how the game will change, whether nobz have gotten better or worse, whether your opponents will regularly bring the tools to handle T5 models or anything.

Why do you think you know more than about every player on this and other forums? Have you played hundreds of games already?

Formosa wrote:

TedNugent wrote:Ok, just get a Megaboss. A Warboss with Mega Armour would cost you 130 points and have 6 WS5 S10 attacks on the charge, and 2+/5++ just like Ghaz. Any advantage conferred to Ghaz by the changes to Mega Armour apply to Megabosses as well - so save yourself 100 points if you want to go that route.

while this is true, a megaboss does not wreck face nearly as much as Ghaz... plus ghaz is cooler

Megaboss 115

115 * 2 = 230

Ghaz = 225

Megaboss doesn't wreck as much face as Ghaz? How about 2 Megabosses?

Jidmah, why the agressive post?
If you can direct me to the post where I've said anything like that then go for it. But that's nothing than your view.

Ted you can't post points for upgrades just the total cost.

It's quite simple to realise if something has been nerfed or isn't as good, it's obvious. People know what's good and what's not already, possibly not the finer details but the basics.

Ghaz isn't as powerful as before, and in 5th he was tenous and was only played in high point games as best my knowledge.

The only reason he might draw level with before is the duelling.

A deathstar with random charge range will be easier to kite, they could mess up and only be able to move 2" or 12" if they're lucky. Tarpitting works also, I was just saying what in my opinion would work and why they're not as good as before.

Next time please don't take it as a slight on you.

How are you going to kite a unit that has a 12 inch move, a 2d6 charge, and is in complete control of where it will move?

And don't they also have a 24" Turboboost? Or did that change?

Did I say I was kiting a Nob biker squad?
Tarpit them or try and put terrain in their way.

Cheap expendable units like 30 Grots, can act as a great screen, you can just shoot them you know?
Secondly, if they turbo-boost they can't assault and leave themselves open for a counter assault from a boyz mob. Who will hit hard and since wound allocation is different and KP's are in points they're not as good...

Bassline wrote:

Seb wrote:Not a huge ork specialist, but the 2+ save has been made a lot better since Gaz will strike at the same time anyone that can bypass his save will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(the same goes for all meganobz though)

Expect for Necrons and an Eldar Special character who ignores 2+ but is faster then I1

Edit: Oh and basicly every MC

Doesn't matter when he can Waaagh! and make his 2+ save invulnerable while he beats said unit or MC apart .

KrimsunBaron wrote:Did I say I was kiting a Nob biker squad?
Tarpit them or try and put terrain in their way.

Cheap expendable units like 30 Grots, can act as a great screen, you can just shoot them you know?
Secondly, if they turbo-boost they can't assault and leave themselves open for a counter assault from a boyz mob. Who will hit hard and since wound allocation is different and KP's are in points they're not as good...

How do you tarpit a unit that has 5 strength 5 attacks on the charge? Doesn't tarpit usually mean you last more than one turn? Not very many units are going to last more than one round of combat against a Nob Biker squad with a Bikerboss in the lead.

If they're not Fearless, they're probably going to be running off the board.

Shoot them you can do, they're technically less resilient than they were before to small arms fire, even if they're better against double strength attacks. But the problem is that with a T6 Bikerboss with FNP in the front soaking the small arms shots you'd have a hard frickin time burning through that unit, and you could allocate whatever you didn't want to eat on your Bikerboss on LOS on a 2+.

A squad of 7 Nobz (Any more is overkill or to much of a pointsink, according to most people)

7 Nobz 5 Attacks on the charge each(I will go at your example of Str5)

35 Attacks 23.3 Hits 19.4 Wound.

Still 10 Grots left or 7 and two runtherders. That's lasted more than a turn. (Your definition of a tarpit)

That's 315p of Nob bikers (Assuming no upgrades) stopped for two turns by 120p.
Now I could stop them for 6 turns for 360p and since they won't assault on the first turn and if by pure chance they assaulted every turn after they would only kill 291p of grots.

Less than their cost and to afford them you've skimped elsewhere so I possibly will be able to cream the rest of your army. The bikerboss doesn't even have enough attacks to kill the rest of the unit and the runtherders with squig hounds would statistically allow me to stay in the fight.

A fully kitted bikerboss cost 150p-155p and at least 135p.
That's a lot of points tarpitted.
Putting cheap battlewagons in their way also works and probably much better considering they ID with the D6 Str10 Deff rolla.