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28.2
Combat lost by probably 15-20+, in which case all the D3 wound rerolls in the world aren't keeping you on the board.
Nah, they'd be gone in one turn.

KrimsunBaron wrote:A squad of 7 Nobz (Any more is overkill or to much of a pointsink, according to most people)

7 Nobz 5 Attacks on the charge each(I will go at your example of Str5)

35 Attacks 23.3 Hits 19.4 Wound.

Still 10 Grots left or 7 and two runtherders. That's lasted more than a turn. (Your definition of a tarpit)

That's 315p of Nob bikers (Assuming no upgrades) stopped for two turns by 120p.

Grots don't have mob rule. They're not sticking around.

KrimsunBaron wrote:Jidmah, why the agressive post?
If you can direct me to the post where I've said anything like that then go for it. But that's nothing than your view.

Ted you can't post points for upgrades just the total cost.

It's quite simple to realise if something has been nerfed or isn't as good, it's obvious. People know what's good and what's not already, possibly not the finer details but the basics.

Ghaz isn't as powerful as before, and in 5th he was tenous and was only played in high point games as best my knowledge.

The only reason he might draw level with before is the duelling.

A deathstar with random charge range will be easier to kite, they could mess up and only be able to move 2" or 12" if they're lucky. Tarpitting works also, I was just saying what in my opinion would work and why they're not as good as before.

Next time please don't take it as a slight on you.

I didn't mean to be aggressive, sorry if it came across as such. I've been told that Germans do sound angry all the time, though

The point is 2d6" is exactly what makes them hard to kite. If they suddenly come charging 10" at you, you're dead. I agree that over-extending into death-stars (as in 600 points+) has become less viable, as you have gotten another pair of dice which might spell "you lose the game!" for you. However, a regular unit of nobz, paladins, assault terminators, TWC or similar didn't lose something significant just because of random charges, except getting a slight chance to not make it into assault - but this hurts just as much for a squad of boyz, burnaz or tank bustaz as it does for nobz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TedNugent wrote:

KrimsunBaron wrote:Did I say I was kiting a Nob biker squad?
Tarpit them or try and put terrain in their way.

Cheap expendable units like 30 Grots, can act as a great screen, you can just shoot them you know?
Secondly, if they turbo-boost they can't assault and leave themselves open for a counter assault from a boyz mob. Who will hit hard and since wound allocation is different and KP's are in points they're not as good...

How do you tarpit a unit that has 5 strength 5 attacks on the charge? Doesn't tarpit usually mean you last more than one turn? Not very many units are going to last more than one round of combat against a Nob Biker squad with a Bikerboss in the lead.

If they're not Fearless, they're probably going to be running off the board.

Shoot them you can do, they're technically less resilient than they were before to small arms fire, even if they're better against double strength attacks. But the problem is that with a T6 Bikerboss with FNP in the front soaking the small arms shots you'd have a hard frickin time burning through that unit, and you could allocate whatever you didn't want to eat on your Bikerboss on LOS on a 2+.

Stubborn units make a good tarpit though. I have grinded through multiple power-blobs with my nob bikerz, they are quite tough.

Ted that's still an alive unit... A LD of 7 is still an above average chance of a pass.

I wasn't saying Nob bikers aren't good. They're just not as good as before... Anyway that's still a costly unit. I will bring some lootas for those points now lets look at how that goes down. I'm likely to get two turns of shooting before you assault and considering I would be in cover it might even be three.

Lets look shall we?

Assuming two shots as that's the average.
Your average nob biker squad with the bikerboss your talking about is (Assuming no upgrades) 450p That's a 135p bikerboss and 45p bikers. No FNP.

That's 30 Lootas. So 120 Shots. 40 Hits. 33 Wounds and with your 4+ Exhaust cloud that's 16.7 Wounds. That's a dead squad except for the bikerboss who only has some wounds left.

The point is I would bring the right tools to the job, everybody has anti deathstar unit, and since the assault has become less certain they're riskier than before.

The grots could stop them for another turn allowing the lootas to keep firing.

Jidmah I agree on the last line and the comment about the germans

I'm sorry, I cannot confirm

Did the Morale check rules change? In 5E if you lose an assault you take a Leadership penalty equal to the number of unsaved wounds you lost in the assault. I do believe your Grots will lose the assault by more than 7 wounds against a unit of Nob Bikers.

And a Morale check is forced upon a lost assault, or did that also change? I'm sorry, I cannot confirm.

Regarding Lootas: Lootas cannot breach the Feel No Pain save. A 5+ FNP save and a 4+ cover save are equivalent to a 3+ save. So effectively a T5 3+ 2W model.

So you're actually looking at 3 dead Nobs w/ 30 Lootas.

http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/shooting.php?1=Attacker%20Group%201;30;2;2;7;4;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;&d=Defender%20Group;1;2;5;3;5;3;;;;;&v=0

You could also cut that number in half and place 2 wounds on your Warboss

http://www.heresy-online.net/combatcalculator/shooting.php?1=Attacker%20Group%201;15;2;2;7;4;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;&d=Defender%20Group;1;3;6;3;5;3;;;;;&v=0

In any case, yes, Lootas would be very effective shooting against Nob Bikers, I will give you this.

Ok
With everything in combination I just feel nob bikers at that point cost are a bit expensive against some armies.

Won't stop me considering them though

Jidmah wrote:Plus, you are still spending 225 points on him, that's almost too expensive for games below 2000.

I've run him in my DeffWing pretty much all through 5th Ed. at points values from 1k to 2k. Most games I played were 1.5k.

Mainly because that was 5th?
Deffwing would be fun this edition, but I think that since they're more survivable now downgrading your boss might be an idea, but then again Ghaz might work for an all MANZ list.

I think you should just use your Ghaz model as a counts as Megaboss, because as I've just demonstrated, you can get 2 of them for the prize of one Ghazghkull Thraka.

That means twice as many scoring Meganobz.

TedNugent wrote:I think you should just use your Ghaz model as a counts as Megaboss, because as I've just demonstrated, you can get 2 of them for the prize of one Ghazghkull Thraka.

That means twice as many scoring Meganobz.

I've always run two bosses, one is Gazzy. Pure meganob/wagon fun since the codex hit.

Yes that was in 5th when the 6" run was great for an all SaP army, but the fearless and stompyness I think is still worth it.

I'll happily pay 355 points over the 260 I would pay for two tooled megabosses.

In fact, I may be running 485 points of angry warboss soon.

You could run 2 more Meganobs for that cost difference and still add an Attack Squig on one of your Megabosses.

To be pedantic, I always run them with squigs. MA, BP, AS and CB is 130.