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All of this talk of Tyranids being a danger to the galaxy got me thinking. If the Tyranids make it as far a Mars and start stripping it what would happen? Surely they risk releasing the Void Dragon. At the moment he is weak, but once he is free and has life around him that has no concept of what he is he will start feeding. The Tyranids distroy Mars. So what? Means nothing to him. Surely he will start feeding and not stop. He will not feed in a way to help defend the galaxy, but surely he will me a major threat to Nid's. Other life may survive, but I see it a a possibility that he could be the one true threat waiting for the, unknown, under Mars, like an acidental booby trap.

I know this is allot of if's, but I can see the Void Dragon being released as Mars falls due to the people/person tending his prison being killed, and him waking up and beign realy realy hungry and given the massive amount of energy flowing through the hive fleet, with synapse nodes and the like it will be like a 5 star banquet to a starving hobo.

If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

As I posted in the other thread, All the named C'tan have been shattered. This was confirmed by the WD, that not only mentions this, but gives sample powers for each named shard that correlate with how they acted.

Damn you White Dwarf!

I remember reading something about Outsider, another C'tan, where the.Nid fleet went out of their way to give him a wide berth. If Void Dragon really is as powerful as fluff makes him out, maybe the.Nids will just say "Feth this" as soon as the realise they can't reavh Terra without coming near VD.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

Yes, but as I posted earlier, all of the powers previously considered to be those of the Void Dragon are specifically listed under the special powers you can buy for your army's C'tan Shard. Unless there are multiple C'tan with the ability to control machines and such (which, granted, is perfectly possible, just unlikely, I think) then I take this to imply that the Void Dragon is in a bunch of pieces scattered all over the galaxy. Given that blowing up the star-gods probably caused all sorts of funky space-time distortions, why couldn't a particularly large chunk land on Terra or Mars?

Sasori wrote:

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

As I posted in the other thread, All the named C'tan have been shattered. This was confirmed by the WD, that not only mentions this, but gives sample powers for each named shard that correlate with how they acted.

Gak WD...the Dragon was not shattered as far as I'm concerned. The same goes for other gak like Khornate Knights or Tomb Kings in Space. Daemonhunters and Lovecraftian Space Robots FTW!

It seems from what people are saying that it is perfectly possible that Nid's could get to the solar system, realise there is somethign there that would not be good to go near, therefor leave it well alone.

Ye, humanity across the galaxy would still be well and truly screwd, but it has always seemed that the one force that could scrub all other life out is the Nids. This mean's that every major race can survive the Nid plague in some way and come back once the nids move on to somewhere new. Yes, it would meen re-population of the galaxy, but this might be what is needed given how screwd everything is.

Man, mostly gone but having Terra possibly safe.
Eldar, at least one craftworld will be able to hide for long enough
DE, sit in the web way and hide.
Chaos, they will have little power with little to feed on, but they will never go.
Orks, they are all over the place. Some outside the galaxy, some lost in the warp.
Necrons, little life left will probably make them happy.
Tau, well, um, maybe not everyone would survive.

In it's weakened state, I think the Tyranids could eat the void dragon. That isn't taking into account how weakened the Nids will be after the battle for mars, however.

I don't see how nids could possibly eat a c'tan

King Pariah wrote:I don't see how nids could possibly eat a c'tan

They can't. The only thing that can eat a C'tan is another C'tan. And this the Void Dragon were talking about. Mightiest and most feared among the Star Gods, one even the Emperor could barely defeat.

Tadashi wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't see how nids could possibly eat a c'tan

They can't. The only thing that can eat a C'tan is another C'tan. And this the Void Dragon were talking about. Mightiest and most feared among the Star Gods, one even the Emperor could barely defeat.

Which makes the fact that it might just be a shard of the Void Dragon even more frightening, and makes the true power of the blackstone fortress even more frightning. It dose make you wonder what power the crons will have if they fully reawaken and are able to start building new weapons again.

So the crons are just invincible? I'm not buying it. There has to be a weakness.

They have very clear weaknesses in the fluff, they're divided and scattered across the galaxy. Their current inability to unite as well as their sporadically awakening tomb worlds are the greatest advantages the rest of the galaxy holds over the Necrons. According Ward, they use the Dolmen Gates for interstellar travel (though we all know that they use inertialess drives which nullifies Ward's unenlightened fluff) though which is very fast, is also fairly unaccessable as a good portion of the webway is broken. Also, as shown in fluff, the other species do have a fighting chance against the Necrons upon the field of battle. As far as the C'tan shards go, the necrons only consider using them in the most dire straits as the risk of the shard escaping their grasp is one they are extremely unwilling to take no matter how small the chance is that the shard can actually take. In fact, the necrons would probably rather see the loss of an entire dynasty than risk letting their ancient nemesis and betrayer walk amongst the stars freely once more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They have very clear weaknesses in the fluff, they're divided and scattered across the galaxy. Their current inability to unite as well as their sporadically awakening tomb worlds are the greatest advantages the rest of the galaxy holds over the Necrons. According Ward, they use the Dolmen Gates for interstellar travel (though we all know that they use inertialess drives which nullifies Ward's unenlightened fluff) though which is very fast, is also fairly unaccessable as a good portion of the webway is broken. Also, as shown in fluff, the other species do have a fighting chance against the Necrons upon the field of battle. As far as the C'tan shards go, the necrons only consider using them in the most dire straits as the risk of the shard escaping their grasp is one they are extremely unwilling to take no matter how small the chance is that the shard can actually take. In fact, the necrons would probably rather see the loss of an entire dynasty than risk letting their ancient nemesis and betrayer walk amongst the stars freely once more.

Hunchkrot wrote:So the crons are just invincible? I'm not buying it. There has to be a weakness.

Mwa? Where did you get invincible from? I don't think anyone said they were invincible, just capable of makeing some truly frightening weapons, as shown by the blackstone fortress. A single c'tan however may be unstopable by the nids. It would not be able to kill all nids, but i think anyt hat got close would be a tasty snack, and given the way they feed I could see one of the larger ships being seen as a very tasty thing to track down and feed on, maybe even enough to make any c'tan to re-awaken/reform ignore something the size of a human.

Necrons didn't make the blackstone fortresses

TheCrazyCryptek wrote: I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

rofl

King Pariah wrote:They have very clear weaknesses in the fluff, they're divided and scattered across the galaxy. Their current inability to unite as well as their sporadically awakening tomb worlds are the greatest advantages the rest of the galaxy holds over the Necrons. According Ward, they use the Dolmen Gates for interstellar travel (though we all know that they use inertialess drives which nullifies Ward's unenlightened fluff) though which is very fast, is also fairly unaccessable as a good portion of the webway is broken. Also, as shown in fluff, the other species do have a fighting chance against the Necrons upon the field of battle. As far as the C'tan shards go, the necrons only consider using them in the most dire straits as the risk of the shard escaping their grasp is one they are extremely unwilling to take no matter how small the chance is that the shard can actually take. In fact, the necrons would probably rather see the loss of an entire dynasty than risk letting their ancient nemesis and betrayer walk amongst the stars freely once more.

So, their weakness is that they can't travel as fast as some races? That's what I got out of that. Not a big weakness, given that they will invariably win in the end with their extremely advanced weaponry. And I know I said necrons were invincible, but I meant C'tan. I see no way of killing them other than making them fight each other or having the necrons imprison them.

If you look at 3rd edition, the C'tan were birthed by the big bang, from that I believe we can safely assume that the c'tan are not solely in our galaxy, they are probably in every galaxy in the universe. Fortunately, most of them probably were not given physical form... Got a bit off track, one needs to remember that the necrons didn't dare touch the c'tan at the height of their power and after the war with the old ones was finished the c'tan were still a fearsome opponent as the necrons found out. But that's the thing, the c'tan are the mightest beings in the materium, clearly not invincible (as you said the necrons shattered them) but damn near close. However, they do have their counter parts, Gork n' Mork, in the Immaterium. If either the C'tan or Gork n' Mork brought their full wrath to bear the galaxy would be screwed. But they won't/can't. Gork n' Mork don't want to end the good fighting, the "great game" and the C'tan are shattered. So don't worry about it. Besides, almost every faction has a trump card of some sort.

Sasori wrote:

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

As I posted in the other thread, All the named C'tan have been shattered. This was confirmed by the WD, that not only mentions this, but gives sample powers for each named shard that correlate with how they acted.

So we ended up letting the Necrons waltz into Mars without beeing seen?
How dose Abbadon fail at Cadia when the freaking Necrons got to Mars!!!!

Nurgle wrote:

Sasori wrote:

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

Psienesis wrote:If the C'Tan Shard of the Void Dragon on Mars has both the Sentient Singularity and the Gaze of Death Special Abilities that battle, then the Tyranid are right and truly fethed.

I beleive that the Void Dragon is a full C'tan, not a shard. It says in the new Necron Codex that not all of the C'tan(albeit the vast majority) where fragmented. If they Void Dragon had been fragmented, why would the Necrons put him on Earth where the Emperor defeated him and where there is no Necron Tomb to contain him? Doesn't make sense, thats why I think he is a whole C'tan kept weak by the Emperor since before the Horus Heresy. I think its much more likely the Void Dragon came to Terra to hide, where he was later owned by the Emperor.

If the Tyranids actually did manage to reach the Sol System and gunned for Terra and Mars they might unleash the Void Dragon. If he managed to feed and become strong, he would be a serious pain for the Nids to deal with. They might not be able to defeat him through convential means and might have to just pass him by.

As I posted in the other thread, All the named C'tan have been shattered. This was confirmed by the WD, that not only mentions this, but gives sample powers for each named shard that correlate with how they acted.

So we ended up letting the Necrons waltz into Mars without beeing seen?
How dose Abbadon fail at Cadia when the freaking Necrons got to Mars!!!!

Huh? If you're implying that the Necrons snuck in on mars, to shatter the Void Dragon, you'd be incorrect. They were all shattered at the conclusion of the War in Heaven.

Uh Sasori, there's fluff from oldcrons that a small cron force went in to retrieve/awaken the Void Dragon. Now it's easily to be taken that they went in to retrieve the shard.

King Pariah wrote:Uh Sasori, there's fluff from oldcrons that a small cron force went in to retrieve/awaken the Void Dragon. Now it's easily to be taken that they went in to retrieve the shard.

Right, I'm aware of that. But he quoted me talking about how the Void Dragon was shattered, so I thougtht he was implying that the Necrons went there to shatter it.

Edit: I'd like to also point out, that I never disagreed with them going to Mars, just disagreeing that they went there to shatter The Void Dragon, if that is what he was implying.

hmmmm, now theres a thought... a hive fleet v a c'tan?, i dread to think just how hard hte c'tan would be after he nomed all the 'nids... i do belive that the void dragon was sharded as they destroyed em all after killing the old ones but before entering stasis. about the void dragon facing the emperor... lets not forget that he was shot by 2 backstone fortresses, chased across the galaxy by eldar AND THEN, nearly beat the emprah... for the nid and chaos players feeling bad dont forget that necron ships are obscenely fast, (there flyers go 36 inches ) and can easily enter the solar system before detection, if there detected at all, as they could just go thru a pocket dimension.

Hunchkrot wrote:

King Pariah wrote:They have very clear weaknesses in the fluff, they're divided and scattered across the galaxy. Their current inability to unite as well as their sporadically awakening tomb worlds are the greatest advantages the rest of the galaxy holds over the Necrons. According Ward, they use the Dolmen Gates for interstellar travel (though we all know that they use inertialess drives which nullifies Ward's unenlightened fluff) though which is very fast, is also fairly unaccessable as a good portion of the webway is broken. Also, as shown in fluff, the other species do have a fighting chance against the Necrons upon the field of battle. As far as the C'tan shards go, the necrons only consider using them in the most dire straits as the risk of the shard escaping their grasp is one they are extremely unwilling to take no matter how small the chance is that the shard can actually take. In fact, the necrons would probably rather see the loss of an entire dynasty than risk letting their ancient nemesis and betrayer walk amongst the stars freely once more.

So, their weakness is that they can't travel as fast as some races? That's what I got out of that. Not a big weakness, given that they will invariably win in the end with their extremely advanced weaponry. And I know I said necrons were invincible, but I meant C'tan. I see no way of killing them other than making them fight each other or having the necrons imprison them.

Not invincible, but truly and utterly immortal. Even the one that was destroyed wasn't really destroyed, just atomized into particles so small we're not going to see him coming back together for the lifespan of a few dozen stars. The C'Tan are like physical embodiments of natural laws, part and parcel of what makes physical reality a physical reality. These embodiments can be broken up and placed into various stasis devices that keep them... somewhat under control, but not perfectly.

That they were revered as gods by the Necrons and then cast down by the Silent King is in keeping with Necron fluff, and is why the Necron Dynasties of the modern era may possess a collection of C'Tan Shards to use with their legions, but possession of a C'Tan Shard does not make the Necrons invulnerable. It does make them, however, an extremely dangerous foe. Entire Tomb Worlds have been devoured by Hive Fleets, though whether a C'Tan Shard was present on these worlds is unknown. Also unknown is whether or not the Tomb Worlds were awakened, functional or even aware of the Tyranid threat. That said, Tyranids attempting to directly attack a C'Tan Shard are going to get fethed up real, real bad.

To be honest, im not buying that the c'tan are invincible except to other c'tan. Im pretty sure something as powerful and smart as the hive mind would figure something out.
That is, if the hive mind itself isnt a C'tan...
Wow... Total mind blow...

I always assumed that the tyranids were controlled by the outsider. Here's my reasoning:

1) C'tan eat life force. Its their prefer meal but they can eat anything really
2) The oldcrons went into hibernation because of a race that was wiping out all life cutting off the C'tan's food.
3) The tyranids consume all life force to make more life force

It makes sense to have eternal food it would be to consume as much life as possible and sit there. They already have worshipers, or did, so they'd be set.

Anyway that was what I read from the old fluff. The new fluff still makes it possible the outsider would just have to have escaped.

No, sadly new fluff does not allow for any of the C'tan to have escaped sharding. WD made sure of that confirming that every c'tan was sharded :/

So much cool fluff... Ward wy you do dis?

(And by that I mean screwing the cool fluff)