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1750 Necrons

Necron Overlord 90
Phylactery 15
Phase shifter 45
160

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

5 Necron warriors 65
Night scythe 100

Doom scythe 175

Doom scythe 175

Doom scythe 175

Bastion 75

So, you place the bastion in the corner of your deployment zone, or as far against your board edge is possible. You leave just as much room to barely fit your lord against the board edge, not embarked in the bastion. Your opponent cant see him so has to use indirect fire weapons (if he has any) which is what the Phylactery and invul save are for. Turn two start coming on the board and owning your opponent. About as close as you can get to an auto-win army in this edition. 36 Str7 Tesla Shots to glance vehicles to death and kill infantry. And 3 auto hit death beams for AV14. as well as the 30 warriors if you ever need it.

So what if your opponent scores a wound and your Overlord flees off the table? You then auto-lose due to having no units left in play.

Also don't flyer HAVE to start in reserve. Due to new reserve rules only half your army may start in reserve. I could be wrong so if so someone please point it out.

Yes Flyers have to start in reserve and you can only have half your army in reserve... are the Night Scythes Dedicated Transports? If not then you would have to start with some warriors on the board... if they are.. I guess they would start in reserve.

On paper this seems really good but try playing anything more than 2-3 flyers and your gonna have a bad time.
Reason being that they have to move 18+inches a turn due to zooming and cant end its movement on top of anything. Plus 2-3 flyers are hard to maneuver and shoot without a pivot live normal vehicle support.

No. this is terrible. You must start with all flyers in reserve. If at the end of any of your turns you have no units on the field, you auto-lose.

At best you deploy all your warriors and the overlord on foot and you hope to not get tabled before a single flyer shows up. Your opponent may get 2 turns to do this, if you go second.

Strong concept in 5th, is now unusable in 6th because of the auto-losing when you have no units left on the table.

Yes, I think that at most half of your army (counted by points) can't be reserved, however units that must start in reserve are not counted, so 600 points of Night Scythes and 525 points of Doom Scythes don't count toward the total. So 625 / 2 = 313 points can't be reserved.

Actually, I think that units in dedicated transports don't count towards the total either. So the list is good.

However, putting the warriors on the table is probably a good plan, because it gives you more units on the board, in case you get shot at and lose a few. They aren't going to be able to do anything in the transports anyway, so might as well spread them along your board edge and hope for the best.

Dracos wrote:No. this is terrible. You must start with all flyers in reserve. If at the end of any of your turns you have no units on the field, you auto-lose.

At best you deploy all your warriors and the overlord on foot and you hope to not get tabled before a single flyer shows up. Your opponent may get 2 turns to do this, if you go second.

Strong concept in 5th, is now unusable in 6th because of the auto-losing when you have no units left on the table.

A lord starts on the table that can only be targeted by indirect fire with a 3++ save.

Dedicated transports so I'm good with starting warriors in them. And if I need warriors late game they can still disembark from zooming flyers.

Clutter might be an issue, but with how good the flyers are it should offset that to an issue. And when stuff starts dying (which it will) i'll have much more room.


Remember the Bastion is an unoccupied building blocking LoS to my overlord. So he can only be shot at by indirect fire weapons. And the bastion can't be shot at because its unoccupied. And i'm confident that i'll be able to use shallow angles when arriving from my board edge.

Hi,
Isn't it a problem that the Telsas are only range 24" versus many other high strength weapons with ranges 36-48"? What happens when you run into a Dark Eldar Raider/Ravager/Reaver army (at 1750 you can see 3 Ravs and 9 Raiders and even 3 units of Reaver JB with a blaster each) or any SM with their Las cannons?

Sandy

SandyDeath wrote:Hi,
Isn't it a problem that the Telsas are only range 24" versus many other high strength weapons with ranges 36-48"? What happens when you run into a Dark Eldar Raider/Ravager/Reaver army (at 1750 you can see 3 Ravs and 9 Raiders and even 3 units of Reaver JB with a blaster each) or any SM with their Las cannons?

Sandy

being only 24" range on a flyer isn't an issue at all. Worst comes to worse i can move "36 and still fire up to 4 weapons.

Don't forget about the jink save too. So anything shooting at me needs 6s to hit and i still get a 5+ save.

Flyers are durable, but I think you're overestimating them.

Tau (targetting arrays, markerlights, and twin-linked railguns... all massed) and IG (hydra batteries) have very dangerous ground-based answers to fliers in their army lists. Anyone can take quad guns or icarus lascannons. Other armies have their own dangerous fliers. Those hydra batteries have lots of shots, are twin linked, have decent Str, and deny jink saves. Tau can deny any cover saves, including jink saves, with markerlights. Orks don't suffer that much from needing to use snap shots, and many of their AT weapons are twin linked as standard, and can put out a daunting volume of fire. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I'm not saying fliers aren't durable, but I think it's a bit naive to think that they're as safe as you (appear) to think they are.

rmeju wrote:Flyers are durable, but I think you're overestimating them.

Tau (targetting arrays, markerlights, and twin-linked railguns... all massed) and IG (hydra batteries) have very dangerous ground-based answers to fliers in their army lists. Anyone can take quad guns or icarus lascannons. Other armies have their own dangerous fliers. Those hydra batteries have lots of shots, are twin linked, have decent Str, and deny jink saves. Tau can deny any cover saves, including jink saves, with markerlights. Orks don't suffer that much from needing to use snap shots, and many of their AT weapons are twin linked as standard, and can put out a daunting volume of fire. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I'm not saying fliers aren't durable, but I think it's a bit naive to think that they're as safe as you (appear) to think they are.

So 2/3 of 9 flyers arrive. no hydra will ever be able to take a shot of its on the board when 6 flyers show up. Same is true for any of the terrain emplacements. And lets not forget that any marker lights shooting at the flyers are BS1 and you can't increase the BS to shoot down flyers with markerlights. now I am aware that there are other armies in the game with good flyers. And i'm not so naive to believe that i won't lose a single model. However 9 flyers with good weapons isn't easy to shoot down by any means.

And I believe you way overestimating how effective a BS1 twin-linked railgun is, afterall i still get a 5+ save.

One of the reasons why I think they should have gave everyone Flakk missiles...

I hope you can wipe your opponent off the table, otherwise, you won't be holding objectives much. Dropping 5 warriors on an objective, especially if it already has enemies on it, probably won't be able to take or hold said objective. You may be able to contest the ones your opponent has and maybe fly in and drop off on any they don't have, but that is still not a sure thing. You will also have to be spot on with your scythe flightpaths to lay those guns down on targets. You will quickly overpass any enemy units smart enough to maneuver properly and force you to spend 3 turns turning around to line up another pass.

Either way, I don't see you making friends with this list.

So far as I can tell, nothing prevents markerlights from improving BS of a TL railgun, or the next squad of pathfinders' lights (although I may have missed some sort of FAQ on that), and the lights can certainly deny jink saves, since they are cover. You are right though, the first salvo will be fired as snap shots. Even a couple of lights--actually even 1 light--makes those XV88s very dangerous to flyers. I tend to run lots of PFs (16-24) and XV88s (at least 6) in my Tau though. And if you do jink, you won't be hitting much your next turn, either.

I guess we're all still learning. We'll see what shakes out as good and what's not so good. I have my doubts when I see "auto-win" though. It's an interesting list, I'll give it that.

your forced to snap shot at a flyer. Snap shots are always BS1. So markerlights can't increase your BS while shooting at flyers (as snap shots are always BS 1) but yes you can take away my 5+ cover save if you happen to hit with any markerlights. and those warriors won't even touch the table until turn 4 at least when most of my opponents heavy hitters are gone.

there just isn't any good lists out there that can handle 9 flyers at 1750

And no this isn't a list i would ever play in a casual game. Its designed to win tournaments.

Its not like the list doesn't have alot of good shooting in it! It has 36 str7 Tesla shots that hit any unit in 6" with d6 Str 5. As well as an autohit str 10 ap1 shot, being near invulnerable is really just a bonus here.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

UndeadRobotSkeleton wrote:I hope you can wipe your opponent off the table, otherwise, you won't be holding objectives much. Dropping 5 warriors on an objective, especially if it already has enemies on it, probably won't be able to take or hold said objective. You may be able to contest the ones your opponent has and maybe fly in and drop off on any they don't have, but that is still not a sure thing. You will also have to be spot on with your scythe flightpaths to lay those guns down on targets. You will quickly overpass any enemy units smart enough to maneuver properly and force you to spend 3 turns turning around to line up another pass.

Either way, I don't see you making friends with this list.

If you fly off the board you automatically arrive on your next turn. So it only takes 1 turn max to lineup new shots not 3.

See ongoing reserves.

Overfly target cuz it is too close - 1
boost to the edge to get off the board - 2
Fly back on to reengage - 3

at the least, it is 2 turns if you do not count the initial flyover.

If you line up with best case scenario, it will be:

Turn 1: reserves
Turn 2: come on and shoot something
Turn 3: shoot at something
Turn 4: fly off
Turn 5: Fly on and shoot something
Turn 6: shoot something

Worst case:

Turn 1: reserves
Turn 2: failed roll
Turn 3: Failed roll
Turn 4: come on and shoot something
Turn 5: fly off
Turn 6: come on and shoot at something

so, on average, you really will only be able to fire each scythe 3 times in a game. Either way, this list will not be as OP as you think it will. especially if you face hoards.

If you think about it most units don't get more than 4 turns of shooting or so before getting killed. So the trade off seems fair.

I don't need to table my opponent. Just weaken him to a point that he can't stop my 6 scoring units from scoring.

You seem very confident in this list, but I don't see it going very far, to be honest. With the vast majority of games in 6th ed being objective based, you'll be hard pressed to win those having embarked your troops on flyers. Also, go against any army with Prescience or Skyfire, and that's another advantage lost. Also, because of the Aegis Defense Line being so cheap and having vastly superior range against Necrons, I have a feeling those will tear you apart. Sure flyers are good, but they're far from unbeatable. What happens if your flyers come in right before some Ork Dakka jets? What if those Dakka jets are shooting during a Waagh? What if that army has Ghazhkull? No army is unbeatable. (except maybe 270 Ork boyz w/ Ghaz )

what if you face 5 daemon flyers (feathweaver) that can vectorstrike and only be hit on 6's.?

what if you face 45 loota's that go to ground in cover (or come out of reservers) and snapfire at you planes?

I dunno much about Necron, can sumbody explane why these flyers are so good apart from being a flyer. what kind of weapons? Deathray?

Sorry if already mentioned, but don't you place your bastion before terrain is set up, and deployment/mission/table sides are chosen? Therefore you might not actually get the side with the bastion.

Also the list is boring, if someone brought this to the club I play at, I'd just not play them. You don't plan on actually playing with this do you?

It seems several people who have replied to the list, and also to a lesser extent the OP, seem to be thinking about the list a bit too much in a vaccuum.

First of all, pure Scythes is NOT good. With smart placement and movement you can get in several turns of fire, yes, but those Scythes are far better when they're actually transporting something scary (5 Immortals+VoltaicstaffTek anyone?). Necrons got the most ridiculous disembark rules in the whole game for their Scythes: come in 24" (36" if needed, but then you'll be snapshotting), disembark 6", oh look, my Teslamortals can reach anywhere on the board. Leave a single squad in their Scythe till t4, drive off, and on t5 drop them onto any objective on the board. Fun times.


Also, something I replied to my own Scythe thread yesterday, detailing how I would play my Scythes:

"Something I drew in Paint in about 3min, demonstrating an attack vector for Night scythes. Regular pitched deployment as an example.

Basically, bring half your Scythes from each flank, angling wherever your opponents dudes are (in the example, I used the left flank, but you can reach anywhere on the left side of the table). Disembark troops to shoot. Next turn, fly towards your opponent deployment zone at about a 45 degree angle (more or less, as necessary) and shoot stuff in the middle/opposite side of the table, then in your opponent's shooting phase jink when shot at. Next turn off the table, next turn back on, rinse and repeat.

So, for a Scythe that came on on t2 :

t2. Come in from corner and drop off troops, angle towards targets.
t3. Fly into middle, target stuff in the middle or opposite side where you came in. Jink when shot at.
t4. Off the table.
t5. Back on.

With 3 Scythes on each flank you can fly them in a V formation or all side by side, however you like. Their angles of fire should be able to cover pretty much most things you need them to. Zooming like this will give you at least 3 turns of shooting in a 5 turn game, possibly more depending on enemy movement, but very unlikely to be less."

rodgers37 wrote:Sorry if already mentioned, but don't you place your bastion before terrain is set up, and deployment/mission/table sides are chosen? Therefore you might not actually get the side with the bastion.

Also the list is boring, if someone brought this to the club I play at, I'd just not play them. You don't plan on actually playing with this do you?

Actually you setup terrain AFTER you know what your deployment/mission/what side of the board is yours. So you can easily hide the lord.

and its not a casual play army. Its a Tourney army.

all the flyers have a twin linked Tesla Destructor Which is a str7 ap - heavy 4 wep With the Tesla rule (any 6s to hit generate 2 additional hits) and after the shot is resolved any units within 6" take d6 Str5 hits. Its a really good gun and on a 100 pt flyer its a steal.

lets all keep in mind that any skyfire units on the board will Die the turn the flyers arrive. Warriors don't actually see the table until its safe for them to, on my terms.

If i was to shoot all 36 tesla shots in 1 turn (which i know i won't) i would on average hit 36 times. Something to consider.

dakkaguy wrote:You seem very confident in this list, but I don't see it going very far, to be honest. With the vast majority of games in 6th ed being objective based, you'll be hard pressed to win those having embarked your troops on flyers. Also, go against any army with Prescience or Skyfire, and that's another advantage lost. Also, because of the Aegis Defense Line being so cheap and having vastly superior range against Necrons, I have a feeling those will tear you apart. Sure flyers are good, but they're far from unbeatable. What happens if your flyers come in right before some Ork Dakka jets? What if those Dakka jets are shooting during a Waagh? What if that army has Ghazhkull? No army is unbeatable. (except maybe 270 Ork boyz w/ Ghaz )

Terminator Logan wing army eats orkz for lunch nomnonnomnom

Red_Lives wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:Sorry if already mentioned, but don't you place your bastion before terrain is set up, and deployment/mission/table sides are chosen? Therefore you might not actually get the side with the bastion.

Also the list is boring, if someone brought this to the club I play at, I'd just not play them. You don't plan on actually playing with this do you?

Actually you setup terrain AFTER you know what your deployment/mission/what side of the board is yours. So you can easily hide the lord.

and its not a casual play army. Its a Tourney army.

Ahh ok, I hadn't read through that part in much detail, I just knew fortifications were placed before terrain so assumed that was before all the other stuff is decided.
And I understand its a tourney list, but i've never been to a very competitive tournament and don't really plan on doing so, therefore don't really understand the appeal of such an army, but if you like it and think it'll win your tournaments and thats what you want to do then fair enough.

How I would counter with Eldar. Have a bastion with my own, quad gun. Fire dragon exarch with tank hunter and crack shot. Interceptor rule, I get to fire at one plane when it comes in. Crack shot ignores cover. Tank hunter re-rolls armor pen. one plane a turn planes should crash and burn when they come in from 250 points of my 1750. Ad in vypers and a jet bike squad. Fortuned by a farseer? I have 2 squads of 21 str 6 shots I can guide. Fortune them the first turn and let them boost fast. 4+ re roll save and I can go after your flyers or your lord. Have scatter walkers in the heavy slot for more anti-air fire that can just as easily torrent your warrior squads to nothing. I have the points for a Maugan Ra who with crack shot can probably knock out a flyer a turn. I still have a couple hundred points left over to pick things as well.

I think single type spamming lists are not going to do well in this edition.

Red_Lives wrote:

If i was to shoot all 36 tesla shots in 1 turn (which i know i won't) i would on average hit 36 times. Something to consider.

Actually, a single Tesla Destructor will on average hit 5,3333 times. So 9 Destructors hit 47,9999 times

Jabbdo wrote:Actually, a single Tesla Destructor will on average hit 5,3333 times. So 9 Destructors hit 47,9999 times

Gotta love Tesla, when it works it WORKS! But when it doesn't, then it is a bummer. Statistically, it is very possible that none of those 4 shots/re-rolls will roll a 6, which means 3.55 hits instead of 5.33. That's what makes Tesla so fun, you can just hammer the opponent with a good roll or just hit them pretty good with still a good roll, just depends on how many 6s. With twin-linked tesla, I find myself bummed about my hits that weren't 6s on the first roll because I could have had a chance to re-roll them and maybe get a 6!

I think that lots of people is doing EXACTLY what GW wants: running into gw shops and buying flyers and fortifications. This is why they made them appear so good and great, but the reality is harsher, I suppose. Some people is stating that the meta-field is turning away from transports and towards TEQ and flyiers. On my side, I'll just stick with my army and keep playing it. When one of these "new, meta-updated" army will run into an AV13 necron spam, they'll ask themselves: "weren't veichle lists dead?".

TAC will still require horde handling, veichle killing and now some flyers killing...role that can be usually covered by the transport stunlocking tools of the past.

Multi-glancing now kill a veichle, but remember that until those 3 glances, you are doing NOTHING at that veichle, not even shaking it.
Veichles will endure less, but could be more "active" in those turns, so it won't be enough to glance that Vindicator to shake or stun it, because it WILL shoot and WILL have some effects.

Under-estimating veichle could be very painful, and I suppose good list will still keep some veichle in, maybe only to sneak at some easy-headed fool who took away 99% of his anti tank to have more flyers and such...

Just my 2 cents

Nix wrote:
Under-estimating veichle could be very painful, and I suppose good list will still keep some veichle in, maybe only to sneak at some easy-headed fool who took away 99% of his anti tank to have more flyers and such...

The thing is, with ap - no longer having a -1 modifier on the table, and Tesla Destructors being str7, Night Scythes are anti-tank, in fact they're anti-everything. Against av11, each Night Scythe will remove 2,6666 hull points on average. Even av13 will die to them eventually through glances, if needed.

Though usually you won't even need to shoot your Night Scythes at av13+ vehicles, as Necrons have a ridiculously underpriced vehicle killer in the humble Voltaic Staff Cryptek. 25pts for (on average) 2,2222 Hull points removed from ANY vehicle? Yeah, you can kiss your Land Raiders goodbye.